Hi, I brought home my new pup today and have been looking for well priced insurance over the last few days with little success.  He is a rottie and the prices are over double what I pay to insure my staffy.  I am particularly conscious that with the amount of retailers disappearing off the high street at the moment, picking an insurer is not an easy task.

Rotties are not renowned for being particularly healthy and I am worried that if any conditions develop and I have to change my insurer over the next year or so I could be in trouble or stuck with an un-insurable dog.  Now I know that no-one has a crystal ball but the word on the street at the moment is that many high street favourites are in trouble (including M&S, Debenhams etc) but what about the underwriters?  Is AXA a safe bet?

I currently pay approx £13pcm for missys insurance but the pup is looking like he will cost between £23-£35 depending on where I go.  Any thoughts of a fairly cheap yet sustainable choice for insurance?

I'm with Direct line, and we pay £22 for both our Danes a month, with a £100 excess.

If they are asking silly amounts and won't cover main known problems in the breed, why not think about openening bank account and putting a set amount away each month to use for unexpected vet bills?

My Mum has set up a similar account all unexpected money goes into and is saved to use on unexpected bills such as vet, boiler, windows etc etc etc

> If they are asking silly amounts and won't cover main known problems in the breed, why not think about openening bank account and putting a set amount away each month to use for unexpected vet bills?

Hi Rox, I didn't explain myself very well.  What I meant was if he develops a problem and then the insurer goes bust then I won't be able to get that condition insured by another insurer IYKWIM?  I have thought about putting the money away but I was £1,000's when missy was a pup as she was through at the Royal Dick for treatment at at the vets every week (or at least that is how it felt ;))

hi, im with direct line too, £19 for my RR. Unfortunately when i started investigating insurance, i found that i was getting quoted quite high prices, higher than i expected, and i soon discovered that there is a "list" and any dogs on this are higher pices because they are considered large breeds and to be more prone to illness. this did annoy me, but it appears most insurers do it, and rotties are on this, so they will be more expensive than a SBT :(
American Bulldog
Bernese Mountain Dog 
Boerbeol
Bordeaux Mastiff/Dogue de Bordeaux
Bulldog
Bullmastiff
Cane Corso
Deerhound
Estrela
Foxhound
Great Dane
Irish Wolfhound 
Japanese Chin
Leonburger
Mastiff 
Neopolitan Mastiff
Newfoundland
Old English Sheepdog 
Pyrenean Mountain Dog
Rhodesian Ridgeback
Rottweiler 
Shar Pei
St Bernard
Tibetan Mastiff
Trail Hound

the idea of putting money aside is a good one,but i would be too worried that i wouldnt have enough, what if something happens when your dog is young, and needs emergency care, eg being hit by a car and suffering internal injuries and fractures. that could easily be several thousand pounds at my place of work. i like that if anything bad happens, then its one last thing i need to consider. (touch wood none of us are ever in that situation :(   )

The case above happened to us!
Our Leo is insured with Animal friends insurance and the cover is very good ( £6000/per illness/per year) and very good price (I think we pay £26/month).
I believe they do not charge you extra if you have one of the above breeds or where you live.

We had paid in two months charges(little over £50) and Sasha was hit by a car and broke her pelvis = The bill is currently running at nearly £5000!!
They have paid the vet direct and were very quick too.

I wanted an insurance that will cover my dog year after year if she devlops an illness she needs medication for the rest of her life.
Many insurances cover up to certain amount per illness and that is it, when you have spent it you are on your own paying the costs for the years to come.

I have not really answered your question have I :)

Healthy Pets is one of AXA's and seems very reasonable for good cover.

> Healthy Pets is one of AXA's and seems very reasonable for good cover.

Agreed, I'm with them too. Last year I had one borzoi and two collies on the same policy for £17 month. Toto (zoi) ran up £680 in vet bills before he was pts with cancer and littlest collie over £1000 for her dislocated superficial digital flexor tendon. They paid the vet direct, and paid out very quickly in both cases. I've just insured the 10 year old rescue lurcher with them for £8.14 month. The collies policy renewal has came in and is now £13.45 for the two of them so has went up a fair bit from last year.

In the case of littlest collie I'd have had to put £30 a month away to cover her vet bills to date, instead of her share of the insurance which up till this year was only £3.54 a month.

Tchi (7 year old borzoi) is stuck with Direct line as he's been sewn up several times and any new insurer won't pay out for a similar accident - he's always running into fences or falling down! He's cost around £4000 over his life in vet bills and I currently pay £21.90 a month so I've saved money with insurance for 3 of my 4 dogs.

The exception is Meg, my 5 year old collie bitch. Other than routine worming, innoculations/titre testing and neutering she's been to the vets once - total cost of vet bills over her life to date £24.70 ... the insurance company must love her :-)

Also remember that if you go for a 'pot' of money for vets rather than insurance you have no 3rd party cover which I feel is essential - what if your dog got loose and caused an accident?  Or, God forbid, something upset your dog and it bit someone, or became aggressive and attacked another dog - it might be a very outside chance of the latter happeneing but am covered just in case.

My dogs are covered 3rd party through my house insurance.

Thats a good option then.  I hadn't heard of home insurance covering that aspect.

It's worth checking your policy if you don't want to insure your dogs as I never have - I would have been £1000s out of pocket over the years!

Contents policy doesn't cover any damage that my dogs do to my home, but it does cover any damage that they cause to other people and their property outside.

Three of mine are now with AXA and I've found them very good and quick to pay out when needed. They are very reasonably priced, offer a good cover and one of my premiums actually went down this year! Two others are with M&S (who were underwritten by AXA when I took the policies out - for the 5 dogs) and they were good, but hiked the prices by a ridiculous amount and changed underwriters, so those that didn't have any underlying conditions were switched to AXA.

We've been with E & L insurance for a while now, our rotts cost approx £15 each per 28 days, one of the cheapest on the market from what I can tell. The only thing is, we've never claimed, so couldn't tell you what that side is like for them, but very helpful and the website is really easy to use too.

I'm not sure why you think Rottie's are renowned for being unhealthy, I have owned them for over 10yrs and they are as healthy as any other breed I own lol!

Anyway check out NFU I pay £16 per month for my Rottie's and Akita and they have been excellent so far.  Excess is only £50 aswell.

thanks everyone for the hints and tips.  Much appreciated, now all I need is a bit of mystic megs powers to see how the financial climate will fare over the next decade.  I will go and check out NFU and healthy pets for quotes.

As to why I think rotties are unhealthy, the research I have done on the breed shows far more susceptibility to many more diseases than staffys.  The puppy pack I got from the breeder also contained many pages on health issues and preventative things I can do and what to watch out for.  Maybe you have been extremely lucky staff but most people I have known with rotts have lost them to cancer and they do die very young compared with many other breeds.  My staffy will be 6 soon and she is likely to outlive the rottie. :(

It will not just be based on health but also on what the underwriters consider to be the liability risk.

We've been with E & L insurance for a while now
we've never claimed, so couldn't tell you what that side is like for them

I don't know of anyone who has been happy with the way that their claim has been handled!  I'm sure that some are, but I don't know any.  Read the small print very carefully.  :(

> Anyway check out NFU I pay £16 per month for my Rottie's

How do I find this company? We currently pay £40 a month for Bo our Rotti's insurance with more than.

> Healthy Pets is one of AXA's and seems very reasonable for good cover.

I believe AmTrust are now the underwriters for Healthy pets.

> We've been with E & L insurance for a while now
> we've never claimed, so couldn't tell you what that side is like for them
>
> I don't know of anyone who has been happy with the way that their claim has been handled!  I'm sure that some are, but I don't know any.  Read the small print very carefully.

I agree, E&L are notoriously bad payers, I would not recommend anyone insure with them.

I have had no end of problems with E&L - they are by far the cheapest and on the face of it appear to offer the highest level of cover.  However, it took them over 6 months to reimburse my 1st claim of £1000.  I currently have £5000 outstanding from our most recent claim - just hope it doesn't take quite so long to get it back!  They also increase your premium without your authorisation and then tell you it was for your own benefit as it was additional cover, and it takes them at least 2 weeks to get a claim form to you!

I also have insurance with Lloyds TSB who have been fantastic - level of cover not so good but premiums reasonable, and they pay out within a week. 

Search on the internet for NFU Mutual and you will find a number for them.  They have been really good so far.

I was not happy with E and L,at the time I was with Pets as Friends E and L were the underwriters and it took them absolutely ages to pay up.Animal friends have now broken away from them,and have another under writer,and have been assured AF will now pay directly to my Vet.I found E and L a nightmare to speak to ,and to avoid having to pay out speedily they kept sending me the same paperwork to be signed over and over again.At this time I am still with A F,who on thier part during my claim were faultless.

>> Anyway check out NFU I pay £16 per month for my Rottie's
> How do I find this company? We currently pay £40 a month for Bo our Rotti's insurance with more than

I googled NFU at it appears to be a search engine rather than an underwriter but £16 a month sounds great, £40 a month sounds like a nightmare!

edited to add: NFU mutual comes up with offices throughout the country and a number to phone.  I'll give them a shout tomorrow, thanks for the tip.

looked into and got Ins for Zuma in Oct, I talked to NFU and I am fairly sure their cover is £xxx per condition during the dogs life, NOT £xxx per condition per year. One you could do is try AXAdirect - the online thing, I got Zumas with them in the end and it is £13.71 p/m for £7000 per year for their top cover, I got the timing right on taking it out as I just sent them a claim for £770 3 days before xmas which would have rather spoiled xmas to have to pay myself.
Chris

http://www.insureyourpet.co.uk/

is a site my vet reccommended to check out various companies. (they have E & L as 'the most complained about in practice' under comments :-O )

> I'm with Direct line, and we pay £22 for both our Danes a month, with a £100 excess.

What sort of cover do you get for that?
I'm with Pet Plan and pay just under £37 per month (for 1 Mastiff), this covers £6k vets fees per year for life (ie, renewed each year & covers on-going conditions). I'm amazed how little you're paying for for 2 Danes, so got a quote from direct line, for the same cover I already have, would cost me just under £37 per month (the same as I'm allready paying with Pet Plan).
How do you get yours so cheap ? :(
Should it make a difference if a dog isn't castrated? (Direct line ask this & Buster is entire)

I have just gone back to the quote I got from Direct line, I changed the 'purchase price' of Buster (reduced it a lot) and it came back with a premim of only £28 per month, instead of £37
I then reduced it even further (down to £100) and got a quote of £19 per month

Why should a more 'expensive' dog cost more to insure than a 'cheaper' dog ??? it's crazy. I thought his insurance was costing me because he is a big lump of a dog that would cost a lot to treat for any condition, not because I never got for £100 from local free ad paper

What a rip off!!!!!!!! I wish I had lied about what I paid for him - I will with the next dog!

ETA - he'd be £1 per motnh cheaper to insure if he was castrated too.
ETA again - I've got ahead of myself there - he would be £26 per month (instead of £37) if his purchase price was £100 - I forgot to tick the box for the £6k per year cover *red faced*

I was just playing around with Healthy Pets quote service. Comparing different breeds and ages.

The first column is for a borzoi, the average age of a zoi is 7 so no surprise the premium climbs steeply after that. The next column is for a border collie and the last column for a Rottie. I'd always thought of rotties as fairly healthy breeds - clearly the insurance companies disagree - or are they worried about 3rd party claims?

                        Borzoi     BC        Rott

3 years old          20.00      11.59  36.18
6 years old          31.37      13.44  51.36
8 years old          41.82      16.81  71.90
10 years old        46.00      23.53  86.26
12 years old        50.19      28.23  94.47
14 years old        58.55      30.92  106.79
16 years old        73.19      34.95  129.40

Interestingly too a 3 year old sharpei costs 48.54 going up to 169.90 for a 16 year old one BUT you could insure your sharpei cross rottweiler for only 10.30 at 3 years old going up to 31.07 at 16.

> Why should a more 'expensive' dog cost more to insure than a 'cheaper' dog ?

It makes perfect sense. They'll have to give you the purchase price back if he dies from an illness. If they may have to give you more money back then of course your premiums will be higher :-)

>> What a rip off!!!!!!!! I wish I had lied about what I paid for him - I will with the next dog!

hmmm, I am going to try that although have a sneaky suspicion that they ever found out the truth my insurance would be invalid.  Isn't it crazy that if you buy a dog without papers from the free ads you get cheap insurance but if you do your homework and go to a good, KC accredited, eithical breeder you get fleeced in relation to insurance.

I wonder if they would believe that I swapped him for a number of bits of paper and that he is essentially worthless.  If you breed a dog yourself then surely the premiums would be low too as there would be no purchase price?

I might phone up some of the cheaper quotes and haggle about the refund of purchase price and other bits I won't need.  All I really need is third party and vet costs.

More Than base their premium's on the dog's breed, it's age and your post code....
I'm paying £80 per month for a Boxer bitch with ongoing claims and she's not yet 8 yo.
RG post code.

Boxer bitch almost 5yo is just over £30 a month - not claimed anything for her as yet.

Average age for Boxer is 10yo.

Guess insurance companies are also hedging their bets after all the bad press Rottie's are getting
over attacks etc. So they may also be considering potential 3rd party claims too. :(

>Isn't it crazy that if you buy a dog without papers from the free ads you get cheap insurance but if you do your homework and go to a good, KC accredited, eithical breeder you get fleeced in relation to insurance.

That's what was making me mad too. I was very tempted at some cheap Mastiff pups I found in a local paper, but my head ruled in the end & I never went to see them, I was too worried about health/temperment etc.. I ended up paying much more for a well bred dog wihthout realising the purchase price has such a bearing on the premium.

> I might phone up some of the cheaper quotes and haggle about the refund of purchase price and other bits I won't need.  All I really need is third party and vet costs.

I'll be phoning Buster's insurance tomorrow & see what I can do to lower his premiums - they amount they would pay out on death is only just over half of his purchase price (don't know why it isn't the full amount). I'm the same as you - I only want the security of being able to afford vet treatment & the third party cover, I'm not interested in getting money for his death, there are plenty of other benefits I would never use aswell.

ETA, just had a look at PetPlans website under 'How are premiums calculated' and it doesn't mention purchase price has having an effect, so most of us happily say what we paid for our beloved bundles of financial drainage without realising it will be pushing our premiuims up :(

Not so sure that breeding a dog yourself makes it cheaper.  My last puppy I kept actually cost me £700 after everything and I was asked the value of the dog not the purchase price.  I'm with M and S and the are really good.

> I'd always thought of rotties as fairly healthy breeds - clearly the insurance companies disagree - or are they worried about 3rd party claims?
>
>

Cruciate repair, Cancer and 3rd party liability claims are probably the main factors - all 3 very expensive.

Hi i have been with tesco insurance for nearly nine years now and they have been great my oldest bitch that has been with them from a pup is now nine yeaqrs and untill this year have never had to claim but this year i have made three claims they pay direct al i do is pay the excess to the vet and they sort the rest can take upto two month to pay depending on how quick the vets send the claim forms in and how complicated the claim is.

9yr rottie bitch £2500 per yr per condition £60 excess (not the best cover but thats all they had when i took this policy out) £18 per month

4yr male bullmastiff £4000 per condition for life £60 excess £17 per month.

3yr bitch bullmstiff £4000 per condition for life £60 excess £15 per month.

3 yr bitch bullmastiff £4000 per condition for life £60 excess £15 per month.

7 mth bullmastiff breed by me £4000 per condition for life £15 per month £60 excess.

just got a quote for my new rottie pup and my sons parsons £4000 per condition for life £60 excess £20 per month for the two.

you can choose to pay £60 or £120 excess wjich will bring premium down.

and discount if taken onlie and more discount for more than one animal insured.

hope this helps.

thanks Benson67, I tried tesco but they were much dearer than that.  It must be my chavland postcode lol ;)

I phoned M&S re: tailoring a policy to suit my needs and they said they only do the policies stated and if I didn't want the benefits of the premium policy then I should take the lower one.  when I asked about a multiple dog discount the girl said it would be cheaper to buy it online as there is a 15% online discount but only a 5% second dog discount.  Looks like M&S will be off the list then.

I used to use E&L for my GSDs, one of which had terrible skin allergies. In the first couple of months of investigation they paid out in the region of £2000, then for 7 years they paid out approx £60 a month without a quibble. As the condition was ongoing I only ever had to fill in one claim form, then monthly submitted a simple covering letter together with receipts for the shampoo we used. From my experience they are definitely a company I would recommed.

Thanks for that i'll give them a ring, do they take payment via direct debit?

Diane

> £40 a month sounds like a nightmare!

You can say that again!
Each year it steadily went up by a few pounds, this year by £10, we have only claimed from them once about 3 1/2 years ago and we had to pay the majority as it wasn't a set excess then it was a %. Will be ringing NFU though, if it's £16 for her i'll be chuffed, I might see if they would consider Fudge, (mastiff x) when he came from Battersea he had their six weeks free insurance with petplan, we have not tried anywhere else for him because of the huge claim we had to make when he had Parvo, the bill was touching £2500, we only had to pay the £50 excess. We thought because of the claim, it might make it difficult to get him insured elsewhere, his is about £22 with petplan but I might inquire about him too.

Diane

>> What a rip off!!!!!!!! I wish I had lied about what I paid for him - I will with the next dog!

>>hmmm, I am going to try that although have a sneaky suspicion that they ever found out the truth my insurance would be invalid.

Indeed it would, if they find out you lied for financial gain, they can, void the policy from inception, blacklist you, share details with other insurance companies, keep the premiums, decline claims and take steps to recover any monies that they have paid out.  It is never a good idea to lie, which to a insurance company is using a fraudulent device for financial gain by deception.

> It is never a good idea to lie, which to a insurance company is using a fraudulent device for financial gain by deception.

That is very true.
However after having a bit more of a dig around, they go by the 'market value' of your dog, so it shouldn't matter what price you paid for it - the same with car insurance, if you paid £5k for a clapped out banger the insurance wouldn't take into account the price you paid for it, in the event of a claim - you get what the insurance company deem the car worth - this is probably why the amount of money I would get on Busters death is less than half of what I paid for him (thought it was more than that, but have checked the policy). This is also why the insurance wouldn't be cheaper if you bred the dog yourself, rendering the 'purchase price' £0.

I think it's a case of the insurance companies using deception for financial gain. If they have the death/theft payout capped at a 'market value', then any purchase price paid for a dog above that cap would not cost the insurance company any more money, but they sting those that pay above the 'market value', by hiking up the premiums - disgusting!!

Healthy Pets is one of AXA's and seems very reasonable for good cover.

i am with them and cover is up £40 this year for 2 dogs and excess from 50 to 65 having not made a claim. its cheaper than most but i was still miffed!

>they go by the 'market value' of your dog

Not all insurers...

If they ask the question on the proposal form 'what is the purchase price', and the premiums are calculated taking the purchase price into account and the applicant deliberately enters a false figure - a lesser figure for the purpose of getting cheaper premiums, then it could be deemed as insurance fraud, I'm afraid.

However, it depends if the question is a material fact. I.e. relevant to the risk.

If an insurer only pays out the 'market value' in the event of loss, the insured is not leaving himself underinsured by quoting a lesser amount as the purchase price.  Within reason, it depends on the policy wording. Some will say something like purchase price or market value, whatever is less. 

If the insurer is calculating premiums based on a false (cheaper purchase) price = cheaper premiums and it a material fact asked upfront at the time the policy is opened, then it is fraudulent which can make the policy null and void.

If the insurer pays the purchase price in the event of loss and the insured has quoted a lesser value, then they are underinsured.

Different insurers do different calculations on the amount of risk they will accept and at what premium. 

The best thing to do when applying for insurance is to tell the truth and act in good faith.

A pet worth more in value (higher purchase price) will increase the insurers liabilities in respect that it will be more of an attractive proposition to theft. 

Direct Line for example, pay the purchase price in their section on Loss of Pet from theft or straying in their advanced policy. 

The premium is calculated on risk, the value of the insured asset at the time the policy commenced and the cover provided by the insurer.  The higher the price, the higher the risk of loss, the higher the premium.   It's a principle of insurance.

> The premium is calculated on risk, the value of the insured asset at the time the policy commenced and the cover provided by the insurer.  The higher the price, the higher the risk of loss, the higher the premium.

Not when it's health insurance, the biggest risk to them is the cost of potential vet bills. A Mastiff costing £1500 to buy is going to cost the same to treat in vet fees as a Mastiff that costs £500 to buy, when the payout for death/theft is capped at the market value why charge the person who paid more a higher premium - the policy benefits will be the same?

>A pet worth more in value (higher purchase price) will increase the insurers liabilities in respect that it will be more of an attractive proposition to theft.

It's the 'market value' of a dog that makes it more/less attractive to thiefs - a thief doesn't know weather you paid the top price for your dog, or got it for £100 frm the local paper.

>The best thing to do when applying for insurance is to tell the truth and act in good faith.

this is what I have done, but I am now mad, as people who buy 'cheap' puppies from eg. the free-ads are getting a better deal, despite a puppy from a puppy farm being a higher risk for an insurance company (going on puppy farms producing much less healthy dogs than a reputable breeder).

>The premium is calculated on risk, the value of the insured asset at the time the policy commenced and the cover provided by the insurer.  The higher the price, the higher the risk of loss, the higher the premium.   It's a principle of insurance.

I never considered the cost of my dog to impact my premiums by that much of a % (25% going by the quote from direct line), I am insuring my dogs health not breakdown/replacement. A person taking out health insurance do not have a 'purchase price' yet can get a policy that will pay out a lump sum on death, why should a dogs insurance that is there to pay the vet bills need to be based on a purchase price? :(

good post mastifflover, I wonder if cavaliers will join the list of breeds where there are higher premiums due to 'that programme'.

>Not when its health insurance, the biggest risk to them is the cost of potential vet bills, when the payout for death/theft is capped at the market value why charge the person who paid more a higher premium - the policy benefits will be the same?

Is there an insurance policy on the market that covers vet bills only and nothing else?

I don't know what policy you are referring to; most pet insurance I know is not soley about vet bills.  The cover available in it's entirety, how much risk the company is willing to take on and for what premiums, are taken into consideration upon the calculation of risk and the premiums charged.  It really depends on the underwriting and whether increased premiums based on the purchase price, when they only insure market value in some sections is off-set under some other section of the policy.

If they only insure market value under all sections, then I can see where you are coming from ref purchase price and higher premiums. 

However, not all insurance policies only pay out market value, some pay the purchase price and such cover will be reflected in the premiums charged.  There is a difference between indemnity and non-indemnity insurance.  I do note your comments above ref Direct Line and Direct Line do pay out the purchase price in their advanced policy.

>I am insuring my dogs health not breakdown/replacement. A person taking out health insurance do not have a 'purchase price' yet can get a policy that will pay out a lump sum on death, why should a dogs insurance that is there to pay the vet bills need to be based on a purchase price? :(

Dogs are a purchasable item, humans are not.  You might be wise to seek a policy that pays vet bills only? Most pet insurance on the market I know, provides cover for other things also, Third Party Liability, Death from Accidental Injury, advertising and reward, loss of pet from theft of straying, boarding fees, holiday cancellation, to name a few that comes to mind depending on policy.  As I've said ablove, these will also be taken into consideration when calculating risk and the premiums charged. 

At the end of the day, Pet Insurance is a purchasable commodity; no one has to buy it and companies can charge what they want in premiums, I'm afraid.

I have decided to go with M&S (better the devil you know).  They weren't the cheapest and I have given up trying to second guess which companies will go under in the credit crunch so will be stuck with 2 useless policies if the M&S underwriters go but hey ho.

I am with M/S last year I paid £19.99 for my dog who was 13 last June. I have just recieved my renewal policy the monthly cost has gone up to a whacking £57.99 for the same cover 200% increase!!! With £70 excess and 20% of total bill payable by me after the deduction of £70.
A quote online for Pet Plan with less cover but at £24.99pcm seems a better option and Sainsburys £39.26pcm with £125 excess. It is a minefield to find could cover at a sensible cost.
I think MS will be losing my custom, which is a shame, (did not even make a claim last year) as have have house building/contents and car insurance with them. But that is such a rise in cost together with my cat from £9.99 this has risen to £13.99 with £50 excess.