Not sure where to post this because it's not about health per se ...  it's a vet rant!

I take my dogs to an alternate vet surgery for their annual boosters.  Reason is that one of my dogs had a reaction to the brand of vaccine my regular vet uses and this other vet uses a different brand which my dogs tolerate well.
Regular vet cannot stock a second brand (I already asked), hence I either switch vets completely or do what I'm doing now.

Anyway, I dread this annual check up.   It is one of those surgeries that is located in a pet supply store - you can probably guess.   Every time I go it does matter which vet I see they try to frighten me that one of my dogs has something dreadful wrong with them.  They don't say outright that there is a problem - they imply in a really insidious way that there is something wrong.  Once it was that one of my dogs should have surgery for luxating patella - I had my two regular vets examine her and neither could even make her leg slip a bit.  They both looked puzzled.  Next year for her annual at the alternate vet there was a different veterinarian attending and I asked her to check her leg - after several minutes she said there might be a little "click."   

I only took one dog there once for health reasons - Abby was feeling really poorly and throwing up - it was the weekend so this alternate vet was open.   The vet implied that my dog might have pancreatis and I should bring her back in three days.  Well, after the antibiotics she was fine so of course I did not go back.  (Abby is a real scavenger and I am sure ate something that really did not agree with her.)

This past weekend I took them for their annual check-up again.   Still another vet attending - this time she thought Rudi's heart sounded a little "muffled" and wanted to know if he tired easily.   Rudi runs like the wind.  He is really scared at the vet and once he stopped shaking he dropped in a submissive heap on the examing table waiting for the vet to get done and licking her face every time it got near enough.  Muffled heart?  If he could have Rudi would have willed himself into a coma whilst being examined.   Vet checked his pulse, which was good, and dropped the topic entirely.

I am just furious as I think that this particular surgery has a policy of drumming up business for nothing.  Argghhh.

so why give them your business?
if you took it elsewhere you wouldnt be lining there pockets and enabling them to keep practising!
i wouldnt shop in this shop if you paid me after working a week there so certainly wouldnt trust them with my most precious babies....

I had just such an experience with a vet, one of the founder vets of a very large Aberdeen surgery.  One of the dogs had conjunctivitis.  Well, after looking at the dog with the sore eye it was announced to me that BOTH dogs would need eye surgery as they had a genetic problem with their eyelids.  Never heard so much rubish in my life!  This particular vet had never seen my dogs before and as I said was only looking at one dog at the time.

I didn't go back to that vet again! Take your business elsewhere.  I have known of several vets who think they are God when it comes to dogs and take the mickey with regards "mysterious illnesses".

Nothing more satisfying than having a locum vet look at my lot and shake their head with the cheery little quip    " Oh I suppose they've got a murmur" or my favourite " There's a risk that this symptom means they may have Syringomyelia".....I may seem a bit saddo but I really do enjoy directing them to my records where I have insisted they note all my dogs current, clear results.
Strangely they seem a little frosty after that.
My OH ( Human medic) was always taught to exclude the simplest things first before looking for the rare and obscure (and probably unlikely.)
...........But then in (private) Vet Medicine there's no money in that.

Inthemistuk

I give them my business because I choose to have my dogs vacinnated, but don't want them vacinnated using the brand my regular vets use.   So I have no choice but to use another vet for vacinnations - and that's all I ever want them to do.  So I picked that vet that a) used a different brand of vacinne and b) is convenient.

If in the annual exam which the vets do prior to administering the vacinne something was said that has me concerned - I have regular vets check.   My regular vets I trust completely - this outfit at the Pet Store I do not.   I don't know whether its a franchise or what kind of deal it is and I wonder how the vets are compensated.  Meaning are they self-employed, or is their pay based on a certain volume of business ...

Toolz,

The locum sounds exactly what goes on at this particular surgery as standard procedure.  

I'm at the point where I may ask my regular vet to order a different vacinne from his norm and I will pay for the entire quantity he has to order, even though he has to bin the rest.  

I don't get why most vets can't just keep more than one brand of vaccine in. MOST people never ask for one brand or another, so if they need to order in a different brand for one customer, just use it up on the dogs whose owners don't have a preference! My new vet has lots of different vaccines as he deals with several breeders and most seem to have a preference. I had no preference, then for the first time ever in all my time of breeding cats (20 years this coming new year) I had a litter have a bad reaction. No problem, the vet just used a different brand the second time, all kittens were fine, and we now stick to that brand. This is a small one vet practice who can't have anywhere near as many clients as a larger multi vet practice, so if he can do it....!

could not agree more, Vet's are a right royal pain sometimes.
i use only 1 vet at my practice, he is very good and listens, he is also great with the dogs.
well to cut a long story short, a pup i sold came back to me when he was a an adult, yes he had some issues, but needed him checking out, so took him to see another vet i use as he is great with the problem he was having, we got that sorted with cream and antibiotics.
I kept him with me while the new family he was going to came weekly to get to know him and his way and him theirs,they took him out for day's and to visit their extended family, all going perfect.
after the all clear and about six weeks they took him home.

I asked them to book him in at my vet and to ask for nick, he had known him as a baby.
Nick was not available, so they saw another vet that was covering.
all hell broke loose, she told them he needed his eyes doing had a temprement issue and he should go back to the breeder as he was too much of a dog and too much trouble for them, Dawn & her family were very upset and i was angry, the practic manager knew i had breed him and did not expect this from the vet.
When i rang i told them that in no way was my boy going back there to see this vet who had upset my friend so much and said some very unfounded things about me and my dogs.
to this day my boy is still with his new family, i see him regular and the only op he has had is to be castrated, he is fit and well and now only see's nick when he needs his jabs.
With my breed Vets are 1 of our biggest problem's they see a pei and theie eyes light up with £ signs,
I know all the vet's and nurses at my vets as i have been with them for year's Nick is worth his weight in gold, he likes the breed which help's, he did all the work for sending my last 2 over sea's, as he did with the 4 before that.
He even likes my pug.
A good vet is hard to find but when you do you stick with them.
I also use a vet that is about an hour away, that i trust compleatly.

Just a thought is it possible to purchase the vacine you want privately and then get your own vet to vaccinate. Given your reasons they may help out.
It would really upset me to be told my animals may have conditions that they dont and then have to go back to the vet I trust (more money)
to be reassured.
I can see where you are coming from though.

Another thought to put cat among pigeons my sisiter in law who is a homeopath recommends only vaccinatioing once and then not to do boosters, mabe titire test if you want. She would obviously prefer using hoemopathic  "vaccine" but knows she cant win everyone over.
Maybe a thought

Opps you have already thought of that one didnt read your post properly soz!

I can't quite see why you are so upset really.  In the first incident the vet does seem to have come to a conclusion that your vet does not agree with but the second vet you saw on that issue appears to agree it was no big deal.  Just differences in clinical opinion it would seem.
The others though sound perfectly reasonable to me.  I can't see anything wrong in suggesting the symptoms of pancreatitis are present but to try a course of antibiotics to exclude other causes.  Nor can I see anything wrong in the vet questioning you about excercise tolerance when they have noted an abnormality in heart sounds and the vet appears to have taken on board the contribution of the dogs stress and your assurances on its vitality. 
Personally I think, considering that they must be aware the business is more likely to be drummed up for another vet entirely, that their concerns, eroneous or otherwise, are reasonable and well meant.  Would you really rather they did not say anything?

Persoanlly if you do not like them why keep going- I would take my animals some place else :-)

It took me quite a few vets before I found the 1 I go to now, and I love my vet and so do my animals- she is a very huge animal lover :-)

A number of years ago we were losing our Pomeranian's after vaccinations so my vet after we requested it did used to get in a lot of the vaccinations that we were advised to use on Pomeranian pups.  Seeing as we hardly ever had any litters he didn't mind that much, could you not discuss things with your other vet and your worries, surely it wouldn't put him/her out that much?

I guess the key here is communication.  Communicate with your vet, as you would your own doctor.  The OP is getting what she wants from this vet, which is the vaccinations, but like so many people in this world, in every profession, there are always those who think they know better and that everyone else is wrong (this was certainly the case with my former vet - and to a certain extent I am very guilty of it too lol).  I guess vets are like dentists and doctors - once you get a good one HANG ON to them lol!

furriefriends,

My dogs do not get the full round of immunizations every year.  Most vets now only do annual boosters for things that are known to last about year or so.  They only get the full course every three years.

Isabel,

I am upset because at every time I bring my dogs do this particular vet practice the suggestion is made that something major is wrong.   Literally EVER time.  The times I've brought my dogs to my regular vet for minor, run-of-the mill problems the one thing they never do is suggest that they have something terribly wrong with them.   And if they are not sure of something - they tell me what it might or might not be - not automatically leap to the worst case scenario and suggest a treatment for the worst case scenario.  They inform me - not frighten - two entirely different things.   One of the vets was actually suggesting surgery for luxating patella ("I operated on my own dog," he said) that three other vets did not even believe she had. 

What makes you think they are "aware the business is more likely to be drummed up for another vet entirely"?  If they thought that why would they bother suggesting my dogs have serious problems which require expensive treatment???   My dogs are only six years old and have no congenital health problems.  I think they want me to spend my money there - not with some other practice.

What I do think they do is suggest the worst and then wait for the owner's reaction.  I think it is purposeful and intentional because this is a pattern of behaviour in this practice. How many times a week do you think the typical vet sees dogs with stomach or poop problems?  A lot.   Suggesting in all those cases that the cause might be pancreatitis is ludicrous.    The wrong of it was because there was nothing that indicated the likelyhood was that it was pancreatitis versus a run-of-the-mill bug of some kind.

My regular vet is fully aware that I take them elsewhere for their vacinnations and why.  I've never felt the need to tell the vets I use for vaccinations they I take my business elsewhere for anything else.  I don't think I'm obliged to do so.  And quite frankly, if their attitudes were different and I had confidence in them I would use them more regularly.  They are closer to me and their hours are better.   But as it stands - not a chance. 

I do have a vet in a million, but he can't be on duty every time I phone.  But he doesn't talk to me as if I don't know what I'm doing!  I got a locum, after delivering 2 Chi pups a couple of years ago.  I'm quite a dab hand with the obstetric gel, but I was positive that one was left high up under the ribcage, and felt that oxytocin was needed.  The locum looked at my bitch (had obviously never listend to a word I had said), and asked me if I knew what she had been mated to?  Grrr!  Had to say Great Dane didn't I? Just couldn't stop myself.

> What makes you think they are "aware the business is more likely to be drummed up for another vet entirely"

Because you are registered with another vet and I assumed, as you obviously do see this other vet for other matters, that that is made known to them at these routine check ups. 
For some reason you find it offensive that a vet should indicate all the possibilities or investigate further if they spot something on a clinical examination but another client may see that as being thorough or conscientious.  Pancreatitis is not all that uncommon, we have had a couple of threads regarding this very recently and a vet may well regard it important for a client to understand that if a treatment does not work investigations do need to continue to exclude more serious causes.  Heart problems are not unknown either.

> The locum looked at my bitch (had obviously never listend to a word I had said), and asked me if I knew what she had been mated to?

Again, I can't see anything wrong in them asking.  Accidental matings do happen, do they not?  Would it not be remiss of a vet to consider the possible size of puppies?

> Again, I can't see anything wrong in them asking.  Accidental matings do happen, do they not?  Would it not be remiss of a vet to consider the possible size of puppies?

As already explained, I had told the vet everything that she needed to know, but, as I said, she obviously did not listen to me, or would not have needed to ask me unnecessary stupid questions. 

Perhaps she was concentrating on the examination at the time.  I have often found myself guilty of talking before realising the vet was concentrating on listening to or looking at the animal.

>I have often found myself guilty of talking before realising the vet was concentrating on listening to or looking at the animal.

Ditto. And talking when the vet was using the stethoscope and couldn't hear a word I was saying anyway!

Isabel,

You don't seem to believe it is in the realm of possibility that a particular vet or the way a practice is managed could be anything but perfect and completely and only run in the interest of animals' health and well being.   

I've owned dogs for the past 30 years and dealt with numerous vets and several different vet surgeries.  At this point I think I can judge what "best practice" is when it comes to dealing with clients. 

You are correct, pancreatitis is not uncommon - but it is far less common that run-of-the mill stomach bugs.   And heart problems are not uncommon either in the overall dog population, although they are rare in my breed.   For every symptom of common, non-life threatening, transitory illnesses there are probably a dozen of much more serious ailments they could also be indicative of - without any other evidence most vets do not automatically leap to the worst case scenario with the lowest probability.   They treat for the most likely cause of the symptoms and make sure that the owner is aware of what would indicate the dog needs to be brought back for a follow-up visit. 

I think this is a case where a relatively new surgery, which never seems to be very busy, part of a chain of surgeries under the same name ... needs to drum up more ££££££££££.   Which would have included operating on a leg of one of my dogs for a condition she did not and does not actually have.

I think the difference between us is I am not seeing this as leaping to the worst case scenario.  Your own account indicates they mentioned it as a possibility but continued to treat for a lesser cause meantime. 
I think vets are in a no win situation here.  For every client that does not wish to be "scared" there will be another that wishes to have all the information that a vet can give on the possibilities.  In fact over the 30 years or so I have owned dogs I would say the latter are far more common these days.
As you obviously appreciate the way medical practitioners work through the most common and easily treated conditions during the process of diagnosis of the more serious I really don't understand why you object to your vet mentioning that something will also be continued to be observed for or ask more questions to rule it out.

> For every client that does not wish to be "scared" there will be another that wishes to have all the information that a vet can give on the possibilities.

That's very true.  I like to know every possibility, all the relevent avenues of treatment. When my oldie had a bad case of cystitis (sp?), the vet came up with "we'll treat for cystitis first" but I wanted them to eleborate on what else could be causing the symptoms, the relevent investigations & treatments and therfore what a worse-case-scenario prognosis would be (if I know the facts my mind doesn't race away with crazy thoughts as I know what to expect).

Vets do know what they're doing and will often have a gut feeling (from experience) as to what a problem could be but not all voice that opinion untill they have some medical evidence to support it, I always rather to have this opinion from the vet in the first instance. I would be fuming if my pet was treated for a minor complaint, was told the complaint was minor but it turned out to be a more serios complaint, which the vet had suspected but refrained from telling me so as not to alarm me.

IMO we can't make informed choices about our dogs health unless we know all the facts and to me that includes knowing the most likely possibilities - even the serious ones - fore-warned is fore-armed :)

IMO we can't make informed choices about our dogs health unless we know all the facts and to me that includes knowing the most likely possibilities - even the serious ones - fore-warned is fore-armed :-)

I don't agree. For a start, isn't this the kind of vet we so often moan about here? We sold a puppy, the puppy buyer went to the vet to have the vaccinations done, and the vet pounced on something minor or even normal and scared the puppy buyer into thinking they had bought a pup that might be seriously ill? I don't see the difference. There is no sense in making any owner worry about something that might not be the case at all.

I recently took my favourite cat for his booster. He was rather thin but otherwise happy. As a breeder, and ex vet nurse too, my mind had already started worrying about possible problems. Was it hyperthyroidism? Even cancer? The vet agreed that yes, this cat was far too thin. But he said that what's the point in instantly doing lots of expensive tests and worrying, why don't you feed him on his own and feed kitten food instead of adult, and see if it makes a difference? If not, come back. Very sensible I thought, went home and did just that. This cat now comes running to be locked in on his own once a day for his bowl of kitten food, and he's putting on weight by the day. :)

> For a start, isn't this the kind of vet we so often moan about here? We sold a puppy, the puppy buyer went to the vet to have the vaccinations done, and the vet pounced on something minor or even normal and scared the puppy buyer into thinking they had bought a pup that might be seriously ill?

We also advise puppy purchasers who are concerned regarding the puppy they have bought to take it to a vet for a check over. 

> But he said that what's the point in instantly doing lots of expensive tests and worrying

I certainly agree with that but that is not what is being complained about, merely that the vet voiced more serious possibilities, in the latter two incidents described anyway.  In fact, in the final incident described I think the vet would have been terribly remiss if they had just put down any heart irregularities to stress rather than ask any questions regarding behaviour outside the surgery.

We also advise puppy purchasers who are concerned regarding the puppy they have bought to take it to a vet for a check over. 

But we are talking about people NOT worried about their dog's health, and vets MAKING them worry.

> I am just furious as I think that this particular surgery has a policy of drumming up business for nothing

What was the response of the Partners/Practice manager?

> and vets MAKING them worry.

I think it is unfortunate if it causes worry but I really don't think a vet should be expected to keep quiet if they have noted clinical signs that concern them and they consider it wise to investigate further.  It is unfortunate that some are not as skilled clinically as others but there always remains the possibility that the owner who is not worried about their dogs health is also rather unskilled clinically :-)

It is very difficult to find a good alround vet. I use the vet vaccination clinic for my puppies injections. The last 2 puppies one we kept one we sold born July. Cost £35.00 for 2 pups to be injected and £25.00 for both to be micro chipped. The Vet I use that is nearer charges £45.00 for each injection.
I can't yet find a good vet that supports welphing or who is experienced enough to help if needed. In July after delivering 5 healthy puppies I was concerned when my bitch had been pushing for over 2hrs. I phoned the vet to find it was a saturday evening and they had a stand in vet at Castle Bromwich, I took my bitch in labour there which was a drive and we had to find it. To be told by a female vet,  even after I explained that I think this could be a larger puppy blocking the way. She insisted that she would have to xray her to confirm she was pregnant, you could feel the pups inside her. After a time she brought her back to say she would not keep still egh! Then she insisted on scanning her to see if she was pregnant. She could not read the scan. Spent more time putting the costs on her computer. I was getting quite angry by now. I was holding 5 screaming puppies in a basket in a cold waiting room thank goodness I put a hot water bottle in the bottom of the basket. Eventually she decided to do a c/section. I knew the pup by now in the channel would be dead. After about half a hour a young girl came into the waiting room ,down the corridor with a tiny pup in a tea towel to ask me to do somthink with it it was cold pink with a heart beat. At home I have warm towels and heating of 90 deg. for delivery. We swong and rubbed, but they were so cold then she arrived with another I asked her to get them warm and oxegen. We lost 4 pups in this litter. The vet knew nothing about welphing. She was rude and her comment was "what do you breeders expect" I expect a vet to know what they are doing as I am paying for it. They soon came for payment before bringing the bitch out to us. The pups they said had just died. I know if they had been born at home I would not have lost all 4. I have put in complaints. The final answer came just before Christmas saying they are always please to except feed back on there practice. If these had been Doctors they could have been sued. So I do not have a lot of faith in Vets I find most are just Money grabbing.
I only take my dogs to the vet if they have a problem. Just like We only go to the doctors, if we have a problem.

Denese

Isabel,

This may be one of those "you have to be there" situations because it is the attitude of the vet along with the implication that the dog may have something seriously wrong with them which has me fuming.   They are not merely informing me of other possibilities, their entire manner is intended to scare and worry the owner. 

Not sure what you mean by "there always remains the possibility that the owner who is not worried about their dogs health is also rather unskilled clinically".   I don't resent a vet informing me of something that would cause me to worry; I generally start off worried when it comes to something actually being wrong with my dogs.

And yes, I am unskilled clinically - but I've owned enough dogs and been through enough episodes with them of diarrhea, vomitting, tummy upsets, sprained muscles, dislocated toes, broken legs, cruciate ligament injuries, hip dysplasia, luxating patella, hystomata, infected pad, and "OAP" issues that I know the difference between a vet whose primary concern is my animal and a vet whose primary concern is how much they can charge and get away with it. My experience is that the latter sort are a tiny minority of vets, it's just my bad luck that I chose to have my dogs vacinnated at a surgery which fits into that category.

> but I've owned enough dogs and been through enough episodes with them

I'm sure that is true and I often feel the same but I can see it from the vets point of view which is that they alone take the responsibility of the consultations.  Putting myself in their position, if I felt I had noticed something clinically I may well want to be able to truthfully record that this was pointed out to the owner and to be able to record on what basis anything was ruled out or that further investigations were declined.  Lets face it, before too long most vets will have had experience of clients not prepared to take vicarious responsibility for any decisions that a vet took to spare their feelings of fear or not pursue further investigations and who will then complain on that basis.  They are not going to be able to cite in their defence any recognised qualification that a breeder may have despite years of experience to demonstrate that it is reasonable to bow to their greater knowledge.
Different vets clearly suit different folks and I can understand how you feel having no other choices available to you but I do feel this is something that, even if you cannot see it is reasonable, is probably something you are going to have to grin and bear as I doubt it would stand up as a complaint against their conduct.

I think we have all fallen foul of vets at one time or another  , in my case my boy had a toe removed because of a tumor and they recommened chemo  ok we went with that (though in hindsight i wouldnt do it again) on the 3rd chemo injection it wasnt my prefered vet who injected  but i thought he would know what he was doing  (wrong) 2 days later the leg became really swollen , rang the vet an they told me to massage it and see how it went  day 3 skin started sloughing off and became raw 4 days in . really concerned now rang the vet and told him what was happening his exact words were oh f**** bring him in straighttaway by now the dog had a hole in his leg with the bone showing thru  , when i got there i was told the chemo drug cysplatin had been injected into the muscle instead of the vein. loads of apologies and dont worry we will sort it, to cut a long story short  4 months of bandages 1 skin graft that didnt take  , they admitted it was their mistake but lo and behold i had a letter from the insurance company saying they had paid out £5500.00 to the vets for his treatment (a form i hadnt even signed) needless to say i phoned the insurance to tell them it was the vets error and they should stand the cost as they said they would to be told well we have already paid them, for 2 years we struggled with the wound  as the chemo drug eats away from the inside out   . i work with vets everyday of the week  but most of the younger ones havent got a clue , good vets a like hens teeth , worth their weight in gold, i now have a brilliant vet (god help me if he ever retires) but the big hospitals  you can keep them £££ is all they see