Hope you all had a good Christmas :)

After a little bit of advice - do the majority of you have a whelping box pls a puppy pen?  I have a Snowsilk pen (breed cats too) but am wondering if I need to get a puppy pen as well, am thinking of a Crufts freedom pen.  I am thinking that when the pups are able to get out of the Snowsilk pen I would move them into the Crufts one.  Using it for when I am not in the room for when they are more active and overnight etc - is this what most of you do, or are there other options?

Indoors, I use the largest plastic tray you can get from Crofts, intended for a cage bottom really, about 5ft by 3ft I would say.  This I surround with panels from Croft the exact size to just fit inside the lip of the tray.  One end is formed by my Snowsilk box.  This worked out a lot cheaper than the Croft puppy pens, even with several extra panels to add on and make up a lovely big pen for the garden, and considerably cheaper than the Snowsilk pen.  I don't think their own puppy pens would have been big enough for my cocker litters anyway.

I do similar I use a puppy pen base from snooze and snack as my whelping box surrounding the puppy pen sides with cardboard, inserting pig rails and using one panel to form a top and cover with a blanket to create a den.

when pups are two weeks they move to the kitchen where I add on a large crate as their bed area and use the tray and Pen as a puppy pen.

At four weeks the little darlings spend a good part of the day in outside run (10 feet x 12 feet and one or both parts of the double kennel (has connecting door, each half 5 x 5 feet).

Snowsilk now do extentions units to the pens - can anyone tell me if I get one the same size as my box - 30"x30" if this will be okay to use in the ways mentioned above, instead of me buying a Crufts pen?  Or would a Crufts pen be better?  I have a feeling it may be too small - but would appreciate your thoughts.  I would only add the extension when pups are a bit more mobile, for their own safety etc.

I was thinking about getting the add on unit at the beginning of this year anyway for my cats.  Mine is actually the kittening cube, but there really isn't any difference from what I can see between the kittening cube and the whelping box, see here - http://www.snowsilk.co.uk/whelpingbox.htm

I really can't see the benefit in spending all that money for something so small and offering nothing that an ad hoc pen can do.  Possibly for the actual whelping box the insulation and hygiene are of value but even then, as a Snowsilk box owner, I think they are very over rated.  For a pen you need nothing more than adequate space and sufficiently robust sides to withstand puppy frolics.

Thanks for that Isabel :)  So do you think I would be better to get a Crufts pen in addition to my Snowsilk then?

If you think you need a bigger pen than, yes, I would just get Croft ;-)panels.

I will use my snowsilk for whelping, I just thought it was norm to buy a puppy pen too, to keep babies safe if you can't be with them for a short space of time too.  Are the Crufts ones also used for whelping too then?  I was thinking more of a play pen type thing for when they got too big for the snowsilk.

Will go look at the link now - thanks :)

I have a whelping box and 8 puppy panels in my spare bedroom (whelping room ;-) ) I find the panels are invaluable when the pups are at the playing age. They have plenty room to run around in, but also have space if they want to be alone. Mind you, my breed can, and regularly does, have litters of a dozen or more :-D

> I just thought it was norm to buy a puppy pen too

I'm getting a bit confused I think.  You said you had a Snowsilk pen.  I am not sure if you mean you have a whelping box and a pen, a pen or a box :-D. 
All in all, I think what is needed is a whelping box and a pen, yes.

and unless a small or toy breed with lots of space for a large playpen indoors they will really need a safe pen outside to play in as pups can get through the tiniest spaces in the garden at that age.

Sorry, yes I did mean that I have a Snowsilk box.  Need something else too then :)

Thanks for all the advice everyone.

i bought a pen similar to the  crufts  one on ebay
just as good as the crufts one
and a lot cheaper
used it for my puppy while i was busy doing other things and to keep her safe
we will use it for camping in the summer
very impressed by it
and i would not call it small

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Puppy-pen-dog-cage-48-x-30-dog-cage-WITH-FLOOR-90cm-h_W0QQitemZ330274726111QQihZ014QQcategoryZ109129QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262

and i would not call it small

LOL, depends on the breed, doesn't it! :) My last litter was of 10 pups. By 5 weeks they no longer fitted in indoors and so they moved out to a 14' x 8' kennel with an attached run that is uneven in size but roughly 30 feet at longest part, 8 feet at smallest -it has 3 sides all different sizes. By the time the pups were 7 weeks old they were far too big to be locked in the kennel part for longer periods than overnight only. And there were more free space in there than in my living room as that of course has furniture in it. :)

> LOL, depends on the breed, doesn't it! :) My last litter was of 10 pups. By 5 weeks they no longer fitted in indoors and so they moved out to a 14' x 8' kennel with an attached run

> By the time the pups were 7 weeks old they were far too big to be locked in the kennel part for longer periods than overnight only. And there were more free space in there than in my living room as that of course has furniture in it. :)

Ditto.

I can't imagine trying to confine a litter of my breed entirely to indoors, they will only tolerate being in a puppy pen for short periods when sleepy.

no it would not do a big breed litter
but i only used it for one puppy
but it will be ok for a small breed

I only have a small breed hehe.

Would I be better off with one of these such as in the link (Crufts freedom style) or the Crofts panels?

I think the panels have more uses and are less bulky.

Witha small breed litter the panels are quite sturdy enough to not be moved about.  The panels can then be used in the garden (even if they are happy indoors they will need to learn abotu going in the garden), when staying away from home, useful barriers to stop them getting at things like wiring etc.

i use a whelping cage, that my OH made (he is a welder) then lined with pvc, the same stuff that snow silk use,
unser that I put lino (easy to clean) it starts of in the bedroom then at about 2/3 weeks it moves into the living room. the size is 5ft x 3ft, after pups are weened it is used as a play/sleeping area.

its very solid and secure,and quite heavy
you can buy more panels for it 
croft panels would be easier to attatch to a whelping box
i have a large gundog breed plus toys so needed something really sturdy

I used puppy panels, three of them - one with a drop side, and one side of the pen is solid board covered in pvc tarp - I didn't want puppy mess on the wall ;)   the pen it makes is 5x3ft - all secured by nylon ties, apart from the drop which is clips.  Underneath is lino - easy to clean.  This is just for when pups are indoors, they have a 15x6ft outdoor yard as well ;).

At first the pups are in their den, then at 3 weeks the whelping box is put in the puppy pen to give them more space as they are starting to run about, then at about 5 weeks they just have a cardboard box big enough for them to sleep in.  They also have a large plastic dog crate in the yard to sleep in, in case of rain.  Oh and about 30 vet beds :-D can't have too many of those!

breed is 16" adult height and about 10kg weight.  The pups are very boisterous!

I have a whelping box for when born and 3/4wks later move them into a cage with a puppy pen attatched, this is the croft one that clips together, but when pups reach 6wks+ some of them start to climb out of the pen LOL !!!!!

I got up the other morning and 5wk old pup was lying on Top of the cage, on a fleece, how she got their I dont know, she was in the room by herself all night, and was lying sound asleep when I got up next morning, she has not done this since.  She is not a big pup either.

> I think the panels have more uses and are less bulky.
>

Thats very much the case.  I have the three indoors.  Two long and one short that make up the pen over the tray with the whelping box making up the final end.  These are then very easily detached and added to any number of the other 4 or so panels that I have to make up a good big pen in the garden.  Single ones are also used randomly around the house to block off a doorway or a corner of the kitchen of conservatory.  Anything really.

Rightio so I have been looking at the panels. Which do you recommend - the drop side, walk through gate, dog gate or other?  I am unsure which size I should go for too!

I haven't bothered with any gate system.  I would place a crate with a firm top next to the pen and my bitch would either use that to hop in and out or would let me know that she wanted lifting.
Similarly in the garden I would rather lift one or two puppies out at a time rather than have them all swarm out through a gate.
I think you just have to imagine how you would prefer to manage all these things and buy what you think would suit you.  I presume your dogs are very portable :-)

I used the Croft Pen with the extension panels BUT I sit my whelping box inside.  My pups stay in the whelping box for 3-4 weeks then at around this time I remove the whelping box altogether and they are in the big pen. 

I use Croft panels for whelping.  I make a small den around the welping box to give privacy and keep out drafts.  Then as pups grow make a pen around the box.  I did get the gate but only used it for my first litter - found it too difficult - now I climb over the panels.  I have a variety of sizes and like Isobel use them all over the house - favourite reason being to stop my pup getting the post.  I think they are really good value for money - I would say that I hate the Croft clips to keep them together.  The new style ones are too expensive so this last time I used cable ties and they were very effective and really cheap.

We've used the Croft panels very sucessfully. They are versatile too, you can change the shape you've made, add another panel or two if you need to, and they can be used indoors or out. I don't like the drop sided panel and find it very stiff to manipulate. But the walk through gate is useful for the bitch when she wants to visit her pups later on, (obviously you can just climb over yourself). I suppose size depends on your breed and number of panels depends on how much space you have. The websites should have measurements so you can get your tape measure out and go and stand in your space and visualise things.
Good luck!