A two part BBC documentary about puppy farms is going to be broadcast on the 9th and 16th December at 9pm.  (Y BYD AR BEDWAR - the welsh current affairs programme)

http://www.s4c.co.uk/bydarbedwar/e_index.shtml

It can be seen on the following channels:

Digital Terrestrial TV: 4 (Wales only)
Freesat: 104 (Wales only)
Freesat: 120 (Except Wales)
Sky: 104 (Wales only)
Sky: 134 (Except Wales)
Virgin TV: 194 (Wales only)
Virgin TV (ex NTL only): 752

(Crossposting this from another forum)

This is the type of programme that should be on all Tv's, not just Wales. I have freeview and live in Scotland so won't be able to watch it. The GP could learn so much from a programme like this, instead of that programme.

unless of course it follows the line of "these clever people don't breed pedigreee dogs- for they are the work of satan!! instead this miniture poodle- with her very own lovely 2ft by 2ft crate has been mated with a st bernard to produce the very healthy Stroodel!"

grr.

stoopid question . will it be in english??

i have Sky digital and live in Berkshire will i be able to watch it?

If I've read correctly we will be able to see it on Sky 134.
Hope it's in English!

If it's in Welsh you can 888 it for English subtitles :-D  Click Teletext, then 888 :-D

thanks Dillx

Thank god for that, thought I'd have to take a crash course in Welsh! :-D ;-)

Did anyone see it then ??

I should have read Dill's post before I watched it - could only understand the bits where the puppy buyers were talking

Next week they go undercover to a puppy farm and it looks awful...I have noticed that since this programme was filmed the featured puppy farmer's kennels have changed their name...they advertise in our local free ads paper. My friend works for the paper in the advertising dept so I am going to see if she can do anything to stop him from advertising...

I watched it too in but dont speak welsh either, spent about ten mins messing with the teletext trying to gets subtitles only to find they werent available for that program.  I got the general idea of it but like you only got the english bits, does anyone know if their is a version on the net anywhere with subtitles since it has now been aired??

I spent ages thinking to myself what the two dogs sold as poms were, my guess is some sort of spitz mix, probably not an once of pom in them they were so big.

I think the general public should be made to read a leaflet or something stating what a KC registration and 3 or 5 gen pedigree look like before they even try a purchase a pedigree dog because that family tree they were given was almost laughable.

Emma

I spent ages thinking to myself what the two dogs sold as poms were

Remembering that a good breeder isn't going to sell a tiny well bred Pom to a puppy farmer, if he bought a large, pet bred Pom, kept the largest 'Pom' that it produced, mated it to a large, badly bred male Pom, I think it could be possible to produce those huge dogs on the program.

To me, they looked nothing like the Poms that I see in the show ring but I have had similar looking 'Poms' booked into the grooming parlour. :(

Backyard breeders and pet breeders who don't understand why we keep shouting about breeding to the breed standard, are frequently producing puppies that bear little resemblance to their breed, but they think that because they mate a bitch with a pedigree with a male with a pedigree, they are producing pedigree puppies. :(

I'm afraid the the purchaser needs to take some responsibility for buying from this sort of place without doing any homework first.  It's always someone elses' fault these days, isn't it?

If anyone can find the programme on the internet anywhere so that I can watch it please let me know....

http://www.s4c.co.uk/clic/e_level2.shtml?series_id=315133547

Click on the icon that looks like an owl for english subtitles

It made more sense this time round :)

Yes I watched this last night (with subtitles!), that guy was just something else

I think to watch the next one we're going to have to wait til that one 'expires' on their site (12days left I think it said)
As much as I know the next programme will infuriate and disgust me, I will be watching it.

The next programme looks very disturbing.

Nit-picking now LOL, as at least this is a programme exposing puppy farmers ... but I do wish they'd pick more sympathetic examples for the pedigree camp. The Pom breeder may be a lovely lady, but shots of people picking up their dogs by the chin and the base of the tail just invite criticism against 'those heartless pedigree people'.

Also - it may just be the bits of the story we saw - but I thought the woman who ended up with the Pug seemed a bit odd. She seemed to have one dog to ? 5 months ?, then traded it in, then traded in again to get the Pug and paid more money for the privilege. Logic tells me that just keeping the first dog and keeping quiet is never going to stop puppy farming, but if I'd had a puppy for a few months I could no more send it back ...

M.

Whether or not the person with the pug did the right thing or not, would she have felt it necessary to return dogs to a CD breeder?
Surely this programme deserves a lot of credit what a shame it will not be shown nation wide unlike the other programme was.

i didnt even think her pug looked a proper pedigree one!!!

> but I thought the woman who ended up with the Pug seemed a bit odd.

I agree.  I wish they had not chosen someone like that.  For me it was a reminder that there are irresponsible owners that feed and contribute to the puppy farming problem but as that angle was not examined it I would rather not have looked at her!

> Surely this programme deserves a lot of credit what a shame it will not be shown nation wide unlike the other programme was

Yes, despite the couple of shortcomings it would be an eye opener to many.

I agree that the Pug lady seemed a bit strange - she sounded so casual when talking about 'swapping' her dog, I presume she gave it back to the chap she bought it from?! If she thought the breeder was so terrible, why give it back not knowing what will happen to it?! :-(

The next programme looks really upsetting - I really wish this was on mainstream TV like the pedigree dogs programme, it would educate many...

OK haven't watched the film yet - on I-player or itv catch up or whatever but noticed in the free-ads paper this week an obvious puppy farmers advert - AS SEEN ON BBC TV    now that's just unbelieveable !   Since when is being featured on a programme about puppy farming a recommendation for your pups???

Just watched it - thanks for the link ;)

The licensing council have a lot to answer for - if they did any proper checks on this licensee they would know about his past and not issue another license - IMHO they are assisting in puppy farming and fraud - how can a PUG and a POM X have the same pedigree ?????

I found the woman with the Pug very strange too, swapping dogs like that :(  to me she seemed more worrried about the cash than about the poor dogs, but in her position I wouldn't have given him more cash :(

Grrr the puppy farmer featured in this documentary is offering 6 different breeds for sale this week

My friend who works for the paper is going to see if she can do an article so fingers crossed for that one. I agree with you Dill its the council who are to blame as well in this case for re-issuing the licence to this man despite there being complaints. It said his licence is up at the end of this year though didn't it, so maybe (hopefully) they will have seen this programme and will think twice - one can but hope, hey.

i have just watched this it is very upsetting to see that this man gets away with what he is doing!!

could someone post a link up of the next program when it comes on as i cant watch it over here 

this was really auful i watched it when it was on.i help out a rescue center that saves dogs from puppy farms! when you see how bad these poor dogs come in like it really breaks your heart no matter what breed they are pedigree or crossbreed! i thought it was good that they aired this programme and will be good for people to see the next episode to see what is is like in puppy farms!

Shocking indeed that someone can get away with this, the Council don't stop him and because of the way he operates who else is there to regulate this sort of practice? Its a huge loophole isn't it?

I was surprised that people returned dogs to him to swap them for a pedigree? I would have put it down to experience and got on with it.

Next weeks show looks even more disturbing. But, this should be on mainstream TV for all to view.

What channel and day was this on please? Can we watch it on the PC?

http://www.s4c.co.uk/clic/e_level2.shtml?series_id=315133547

Click on the icon that looks like an owl for english subtitles

I think the second part is on tonight at 9pm

Can someone post the link when it is available.

http://www.s4c.co.uk/clic/e_level2.shtml?programme_id=315134009

I think this is the right one. Can't check yet as the computer I'm on doesn't have flash player. Perhaps someone can confirm the link.

I missed this, is there anyway I can still view it (like online)

i think last night was even worse so many poor dogs shoved in a kennel together no bedding and the poor few day old pup in a hard plastic bed again no bedding and the council license these people what a joke.

I watched this last night and was spun out by the vet rightly saying to everyone do not buy these dogs from people as your making their business profitable-
then the lady doing the programme goes and buys a boxer puppy!!

Also another thing bugged the hell out of me is who in their right mind gives license's to people like 70 to 83 breeding bitches its obvious the conditions these animals will be kept in !

Why can't they bring out a law to have a limit on the amount of bitches to breed from say 6 ? If you were continually breeding 6 dogs a year [as they do] you would have loads of puppies!!

Programmes like that just make me very angry and to think the Welsh parliament banned electric collars making out the people of Wales are a real dog caring country!
Then letting this go on :-( 

The BBC would have spent their money better doing this series and showing UK Wide.  

Watching these gets me more angry at the BCC. 

> The BBC would have spent their money better doing this series and showing UK Wide.  
>
> Watching these gets me more angry at the BCC. 

I agree that this program should have been shown all over the UK it may stop people purchasing from shops,byb,puppy farmers etc.

I am not angry with the BBC neither with the KC as ALL sides are attempting to improve certain issues. I just wish ALL the organisations would ALL stop being pig headed and ALL work closer with each other to stamp out bad breeders and improve the health and welfare for the animals. 

Do you honestly think the actually BBC give a hoot. I don't , they made a show got plenty viewers. End of story.

If their reason for showing and making it was about the dogs it would be been produced and filmed, edited in a totally different way. 

At least this Welsh show actually talk to a couple of good breeders showing another side to breeding , you can see a clear comparison.  Not with the BBC's one.

I cant see how the BBC can say anything when they have been fixing calls and conning people for ages with there celeb shows.

The KC register dogs from these type of breeders.

They certainly do! And that is a crime in itself. Large scale commercial breeding is not in the interest of the dogs, who will suffer however clean the conditions are, and the public who will most certainly buy an unsocialized, mouthy puppy, even if they do get a "good"  one without major health problems. The 5 freedoms cannot be maintained when farming a social carnivore, unlike any other farmed animal, one puppy farm has a license for 140 breeding bitches!!!

The programme can be found on Youtube with subtitles, each part divided into 3. .

Part 1

pf1 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLoQi4M6Bzg

pf1 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_12Ag5LSZhs

pf1 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4VFtJewZ5k

Part 2

pf2 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p82mXXDctc0

pf2 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0Y9lcvw1a4

pf2 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1cnFREIwxQ

The BBc has run with the same theme yesterday morning

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7800901.stm

I watched the extended programme and was rather gobsmacked to have accredited breeders described as well regulated, its news to me! Am I the only one who would like the KC to actually give real credit to  the small hobby breeder with one or two girls and the occasional well planned litter rather than giving the accolades to the larger breeder?

http://www.s4c.co.uk/clic/e_level2.shtml?series_id=329866866
I'm not surprised that nothing will be done, this is how these councils act when they think the animal welfare problems are no longer current news.
The first 5 minutes will demonstrate the level of care and concern shown by Carmarthenshire council for the conditions in the commercial breeders they license and INSPECT.
It is letters to the Welsh Assembly and the Prime Minister that are needed most, we can see how much local government cares.

> Am I the only one who would like the KC to actually give real credit to the small hobby breeder with one or two girls and the occasional well planned litter rather than giving the accolades to the larger breeder?

Can't quite understand this comment :)

Accolades are given for:
1) Being a member of a breed club (don't even have to own a dog!)  
2) Having bred 5 litters - that should take a time, but there's nothing to say it must be litters out of 5 bitches ;)
3) Having 3 dogs in the stud book - that could actually be three from your one and only litter :)

They have announced another one - to have bred 5 champions - but again, there's no reason why someone with just one or two bitches shouldn't qualify for that if they breed real quality.

Since volume breeders usually go for quantity over quality, I would say that the accolades are actually more slanted in favour of the hobby breeder.

>They have announced another one - to have bred 5 champions - but again, there's no reason why someone with just one or two bitches shouldn't qualify for that if they breed real quality.

In numerically small breeds, perhaps, but in golden retrievers, or labradors (or dare I say dalmatians?) that would be very good going!

Regarding the results of the puppy farming documentary,

Personally, I would have thought that if ever there was a case for the RSPCA to step in and prosecute then this is it?.  If the council is allowing such conditions to continue, then from a welfare point of view, they are also culpable as well as the puppy farmers?  Surely conditions in the places shown and the behaviour exhibited by the dogs is covered by the new animal welfare laws that were brought in recently?

Carmarthenshire County Council I understand in Tuesdays update have said they will not be prosecuting any breeders because they are not breaking any laws! What sort of answer is that when it can be clearly seen that licensing conditions are being broken. If these breeders are not guilty of contravening the terms of their licenses then what message is that sending out to all the others who accomodate their dogs in the same way and allow dogs to show exteme stress, one suffering  breathing difficultes, another disabled but all still used for breeding some with no bedding, no water or green water and concrete for puppies to lie on, faeces covered floor with food strewn about amongst it others very overcrowed, others so issolated that they were going crazy with boredom and frustration. The accomdation, the buildings did not have excercise areas, no drainage for urine, they were not cleaned out.  The condition of the premises were in some, mostly all poor. Not somewhere where I would board a dog so why are they acceptable to licence for breeding when they would not be acceptable and licence for dog boarding?

Please write your letters of complaint to Carmarthenshire Council.   

By the reaction of Carmarthen Council in the update film, one would think they are exempt - and exempting the licensed breeders from this

http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/welfare/act/index.htm

If this is the case then the new law is a nonsense.  If the local government aren't willing or able to enforce the new laws, what is the point of them?

Pat makes a very good point that no pet owner would board their dog in such filth so why on earth can dogs be bred like this. I've had numerous contacts with Local Authorities, in many cases I speak to a good local authority official, horrified at what they are told and wanting to make changes, more often than not though in the course of the next few weeks they are ordered to do nothing. I'm sure they end up very diillusioned and not prepared to make a change because they will have no backing to do so.Dill is absolutely right, there is no point in laws that are not enforced. One heartening result of showing up these appaling conditions is that Swindon council will not now permit the sale of dogs in pet shops unless they meet conditions of animal welfare including local sourcing and breeder backup that would in all reality pretty well exclude the possibility.
I hope that this shining example is one that will start the ball rolling...if the LA's will not permit puppies to be brought in from a distance to the petshops then these remote licensed breeders will lose a substantial part of their market. There is also the possibility that the Welsh Assembly could impose legislation to improve the situation in Wales itself

> They have announced another one - to have bred 5 champions

I wonder is this UK champions or any?  Just wondered as I have bred 3 UK champions (owned another in partnership) but also bred 2 Irish, one Dutch/International, one Australian and a Polish one.

I have always maintained if it was illegal to sell pups in pet shops it would seriously curtail puppy farming, as few could withstand the scrutiny of selling to the public direct.