where did my sharpei post go???

It wasn't posted under your Sam user id - maybe that's a problem, I don't know.

hmmmm well as my post mysteriously disappeared...here it is again! Can anyone here with sharpeis, pleases tell me:
a) the breed club ethic
and b) the KC stand, on "tacking".
Please dont delete this......its a question im keen to know the answer to!

Here is the breed club code, Sam, although it appears to be just the standard KC one.  Might you be better asking the KC themselves how they stand on "tacking"?

Hi Sam,

I am not sure if it was published or not but all clubs must now adopt the KC standard code of ethics.  This was implemented about a month or so ago.

I keep meaning to bring it to admins attention as their breed code of ethic lists will be obsolete now.

> I am not sure if it was published or not but all clubs must now adopt the KC standard code of ethics. 

The all have to have the same core but I think they are allowed to augment it aren't they?  So presumably we will see variations occuring in time, if not immediately.

well nothing helpful on the clubs website. Anyone else have any idea??

Skin Tacking
03-Apr-08

The Kennel Club has been made aware of the procedure of 'skin tacking' in young puppies, in breeds such as the Shar Pei.  It wishes to see an end to the need for this practice. In the meantime, the General Committee of the Kennel Club has agreed that it is a procedure that, for the purposes of Kennel Club Regulations, alters the natural conformation of the dog.

The Kennel Club has consulted with the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons, which has now agreed that this procedure may be notified to the Kennel Club. Veterinary surgeons will be asked to report such surgery to the Kennel Club, by virtue of the client having given permission to do so under Kennel Club Rules for Registration.  Exhibitors are also required, on show entry forms, to declare that no dog is being shown where such alteration has been made without the relevant permission to show being granted by the Kennel Club.

It follows therefore that any dog which has undergone skin tacking after the date of this announcement may not be exhibited until its owners have applied for, and received, permission to show from the Kennel Club. It is unlikely that such permission will be granted.

Dogs which underwent skin tacking before the date of this announcement, will continue as previously to be permitted to be shown without application.

Can someone explain 'tacking' please? I really hope its not what I am imagining...

""Can someone explain 'tacking' please? I really hope its not what I am imagining"

Me to.....can someone please explain the meaning of "tacking"?

I believe it is a procedure used to stop the inward rolling of the eyelid which may cause the eye to ulcerate. I believe it to be a temporary measure until the pup puts on some muscle in the head; Shar pei pups have a lot of spare skin in their first few weeks. Please note I am not a breeder and am only stating that which I believe to be the truth and purpose of this practice.

Thanks!

Phew - not what I was imagining... thanks

> Skin Tacking
> 03-Apr-08

I see that statement was dated well before the programme citicising the KC stance on welfare issues.

Touche ;-)

Should have added that it is stitching and called tacking, I believe, because it is only a temporary measure as the stitches are removed as soon as there is enough support for the skin to keep the eyelids in the correct place. Believe this notice by the KC is in the continuing effort to lesson the amount of loose skin on the Sharpei, it is noticeable that the amount of wrinkles have diminished a good deal in the last 10 years and this directive ref: tacking was probably the last of the requirements to make sure matters did not slip.

There have been over the years any number of health matters tackled before the infamous programme, one that effected me was the weighing and measuring changes that did not go down well with the breed clubs and I would expect this directive to be tightened because the choice allowed in the end by the KC means that there is in fact little difference in the practice of weighing, I am not so aware of the measuring and that may well not take place at most shows.

I am not so aware of the measuring and that may well not take place at most shows.
I have german spitz mittel and in the last 12 months my dogs have not been measured on 1 occasion. I still dont understand what the KCs problem with measuring was? there is absolutely no chance of hiding the fact my youngest boy is pushing the measure and I have no problem with that, its a fault like any other.
Angela

thnks toolz thats exactly what i wanted to know.....from the kc point of view :)
So do you reckon if a breeder was stating on their site, that all their pups will be tacked by the vet if needed, before going to their new homes, that this would be OK with the breed clubs or against all their principles? Im just trying to get to grips with it, and having spoken to several people who are reknown in the breed, im still not really understanding where everyone stands on the matter.

Whatever the club may feel I would say it is covered by item two of the code imposed on them by the KC.

ignore my previous post - was getting all confuddled about posts, there's another sharpei one that i couldn't find that i thought was yours.

oops!!

If puppies are sold 'tacked' then permision to show would have to be obtained by either the buyer or seller if pup is to be shown.

How breed clubs view this ...I don't know, but I doubt if they have taken an official stance on this.
Surely this will have to be phased out if the KC are serious about the future health of the breed.
Accepting that 8 week old puppies will routinely need operated upon is at least unacceptable - and at worst a  potential Pedigree dog PR disaster.

i agree Toolz. its all intereting to me as i had emails from sommeone  (not of very good breeding despite (sadly) one of my  boys appears to be a grandsire :(  )
Anyway they wanted a stud for this bitch they have aqquired (despite them appearing to know nothing about the breed!) and they happeend to mention they also own a young sharpei. Well curiosity got the better of me, as it often does, and i went to google to discover this person has quite a lot of sharpeis and has 3 litters a year......can see any mention of any health tests or show results....but it does say that all pups will be tacked by their vet before leaving, if deemed neccessary.As its not a breed I know much about i was curious to know the situation on tacking. Think Ive got a better picture of it now though :(

I imagine you wont be getting your 'barge-pole' out for this one Sam :-(

The all have to have the same core but I think they are allowed to augment it aren't they?  So presumably we will see variations occuring in time, if not immediately.


From the letters the clubs received from the KC, no changes were allowed unless approved by them and it had to be something I think they consider really important.  This was just recently and with immediate effect.

If anyone is concerned or needs it confirmed I would speak to your club secretary or the KC direct. 

> From the letters the clubs received from the KC, no changes were allowed unless approved by them and it had to be something I think they consider really important.  This was just recently and with immediate effect.

That is what I had heard but I had rather assumed that when the clubs have had a chance to meet, discuss and rule most would have something important, or perhaps specific which is how I understood it, in their old codes that covered such matters as age at first breeding, number of litters, specific health screening requirements etc which they would wish added, so many would be changing in time and that this was just a starting point.  I hope so anyway.

> I had rather assumed that when the clubs have had a chance to meet, discuss and rule most would have something important, or perhaps specific which is how I understood it, in their old codes that covered such matters as age at first breeding, number of litters, specific health screening requirements etc which they would wish added, so many would be changing in time and that this was just a starting point.  I hope so anyway.

I hope so too, as we have health testing age and number of litters etc much tighter than the general code.

Our clubs website still has out old code of ethics on.

One would hope so, there are any number of clubs who impose much tighter health and welfare restrictions on their club members it would be a retrograde step if they were forced to adopted the less demanding KC ones. I hope the KC code is the starting point and it will be increased and tightened as the need becomes obvious. Trouble is that affiliated clubs can be made to follow the KC line but breeders who are either outside the club or decide to go there own way will continue to do just as they like and no one can do anything about it.

so many would be changing in time and that this was just a starting point.

Nope not a starting point.   I personally think If it was a starting point they wouldn't have undone everything that had already been added by the clubs.

My understanding is the KC has to adopt/approve the Code of Ethics and of course they were caught in a sticky position when there were things in some breed code of conducts that they didn't agree with .. I guess they never checked them at all.. :-)

The KC code of Ethics is focused on the overall welfare angle of dog ownership I think rather than from a breeders point of view.  I think that is why they want them all the same also.

It will be interesting to see if in the future things are added but the literature I read implied to me that changes would be only in very very  exceptional circumstances. 

There is no reason that the test requirements can't still be published.  I don't really see why they have to be in the code of Ethics anyway personally.  They can be listed seperately no problem.

> I personally think If it was a starting point they wouldn't have undone everything that had already been added by the clubs.

Personally, I think they did it this way for speed.

I was led to believe that the KC had asked breed clubs to draw up Codes of ethics incorporating their old general code some years ago and that these were submitted for their approval or at least information.

So assume this time round would be the same.

Think this time is so so different.  Look at the spot the reporter put our KC chairman in when he was asked about culling ridgeless RR s being in the code of ethics the KC was supposed to have approved.  I personally think this type of situation caused the swift action by the KC.  ( just finished wrapping Xmas parcels)

toolz my barge pole is well and truly out!!! :) No one gets a stud from me unless they are known to me...they must be in the breed (either working or showing as ours are very dual purpose) but i was just curious to find out more about this person who acted like a novice pet owner with her hound, yet seems rather knowledgable on her other breed and breeds several litters a year....something she neglected to mention!

I have had pei for well over 12 years and am now on my 4th gen of untacked puppies, on saying that there is no rhym or reason to a puppy needing tacking, it is not a perment thing and they are taken out after 10 to 14 days when the head grow's.
there are far more problem in many breeds that the tacking of a puppy to prevent a problem.

The KC and their chairman are very single minded, if it was left to the chairman and a few others there would only be a handful of breeds left. They are too single minded to see the progress that dedicated breeders have made.
If they where more intrested in dogs than the money that registering litters brings them they would be more selective on who breed's.
The uk is the only country where you can breed, without the dog having to have health tests and be proved worthy of breeding.

> The uk is the only country where you can breed, without the dog having to have health tests and be proved worthy of breeding.

Is it???? I don't think so!

the countrys i have been to ie france and germany they have to be worthy of breeding and have test to pass.
here anyone cam breed and the kc will register as long as dam and sire are registered, i am also led to believe that they are now going to register labradooles, they do register mix breed already.

The pedigree world has gone mad and it's the poor dogs that are suffering.

far too may in rescue and put to sleep

> i am also led to believe that they are now going to register labradooles

The KC have denied that rumour.

> they do register mix breed already.

Do you mean on the activities register?  That is not the same as a blood line register and therefore does not endorse the breeding of mixed breeds.

Phew - not what I was imagining... thanks

Ditto!

I imagined tacking of the skin somehow to create more skin folds.