Crossposted

The only way to get the BBC to change their mind about televising Crufts is for people to call them on the phone in droves.Sending emails is not going to do it, you need to call 03700100222 03 or ++44370010022203 if calling from abroad ,then press 3 and make an actual complaint which may go like this "that you believe that the BBC is not adhering to its public charter by depriving the dog owning fee paying population of watching this world renowned programme.They have not withdrawn from broadcasting sporting events when a few individuals have taken drugs or banned horse racing or fishing when activists are insisting these are cruel sports yet they have decided not to broadcast becaue the Kennel Club has not agreed to withdraw specific targeted breeds from being shown"
If you do this and get 10 of your dog owning friends to do the same in no time at all the BBC will be swamped with complaints and will then have to act as all phone calls are logged.We must do this otherwise there will be another then another reason why dog programmes will get cancelled.For the sake of a phone call we may well change things
We ALL need to stand together as this affects us all,pet people dog lovers,breeders owners,big and small breeds.

Sorry love but for me personally I don't want them there - I know its selfish of me but I truly believe its the best thing that could have happend, I am a fee paying member of the public who happen's to cover discover dogs when I'm not handling.

By the same token it could be deemed as selfish to make those calls and bring the BBC back making life more difficult for the dogs and their owners with the usual trollies of film equipment and bottle necks of GP trying to get autographs etc from their celebs.  I expect the 'door' will go up this year because the BBC aren't filming - great more money for research funding from the GP not just breeders imagine the potential benefits for dogs if that happend.

I dont want them to cover it, after showing "that" programme I dont think they deserve to cover something as great as crufts.  I hope another channel takes it though so the public get to watch it if they cant attend.

i do not want them there either, i think it is about time someone else had a shot at putting crufts on the tv, there are plenty of other channels that would do a better service than the bbc ever did, how many times alone on this board after crufts did we all complain about the coverage on the tv, well now they have gone lets see someone else take over the broadcasting and listen to what the people want to see more of and see if someone else can do a better job than the bbc, i mean how hard can it be
carolann

Bring on SKY.  There is some sort of petition going on FB

I'm afraid it makes no difference to me either.  Although I won't be able to attend, I have had disapointment after disapointment with the BBC coverage.  I've been so excited so many times and when it comes round you get a 30 second glance at a dog and then 20 minutes of twaddle from some random person.  Last year the coverage of my favourite breed was less than 5 seconds and that was with it standing behind it's handler.

The BBC do not make a program for dog lovers, they make a program to gain the interest of people who would find looking at class after class of dogs boring.

> The BBC do not make a program for dog lovers, they make a program to gain the interest of people who would find looking at class after class of dogs boring.

I am not sure that any other channel would be interested in doing anything different.  Infact commercial stations will have an even bigger incentive to appeal to the widest possible audience won't they?

I agree aswell, after the fact that they aired the biast programme I wouldn't want them at Crufts, at least with a sky channel they may have more airing time and could show alot more

Horse and Country coverage of Birmingham dog show is all about the dogs, not always accurate granted, but certainly better than the BBC did crufts.

As much as i love the idea of being able to watch the dogs showing on the telly, but the worst thing that can happen to a breed is to win BIS at crufts, for millions of viewers to see. The amount of giant schnauzers that were being bred after Philippe won was unreal. all because every ignorant dog lover wanted a dog "just like the crufts winner", back street breeders were in their element pushing bitches to have a litter every season all because of the money. this is how dogs develop inherited diseases. we didn't see the bbc admitting that their publicity was probably one of the main causes on their program, by over publicising a breed. don't get me wrong i love showing and i love the idea of winning... who doesn't? but if it means that breeds are going to be better off without the coverage of the bbc at crufts, i'm glad that the bbc aren't doing it.

>the worst thing that can happen to a breed is to win BIS at crufts, for millions of viewers to see.

Yep, just like films featuring a breed, publicity like that is like manna from heaven to puppy farmers and BYBs, and a headache down the line for the breed rescues.

makes no difference to me either

IMO Horse and Hound  would make  a great job of covering Crufts  they just need a few tweaks here and there

Don't have Sky so wouldn't see it anyway.  I'm also not bothered.  Why don't we phone and jam their lines and say that we are glad that they aren't showing it and as we don't watch their stations can we have our money back :)

ClaireyS.
thats just what i was going to say.
goodbye BBc and good riddance to bad rubbish.!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Same as eveyone else, I'm not botherd at all about the BBC pulling out of crufts :)

I am quietly gald that the Beeb have pulled out of showing Crufts. For one they would have been soooo hypercritical of they had shown Crufts and profiting from it after showing 'the evil programme'. I was more saddend by the 'documentry' that the Beeb aired, it has done nothing but demonise pedigree dogs and thier breeders. On the other hand though some important issues were raised. I am new to my breed and my aim is to breed healthy fit for purpose puppies and I do not worry about out crossing as I feel you do not have to keep lines to produce healthy show quality pedigree puppies. I think the whole thing was just a biased advert for rehoming mongrels of which there is no monitoring or registration or moderation!

> I am new to my breed and my aim is to breed healthy fit for purpose puppies and I do not worry about out crossing as I feel you do not have to keep lines to produce healthy show quality pedigree puppies

To clear this -  'outcrossing' I mean that Dam and Sire are not related. It would appear that a couple of tme things I have posted have been taken out of context/misunderstood. I am sorry for this and please understand that I am not very experienced and joined this site to get advice and help from people 'in the know'. I joined so that I could have sensible opinions and so could make the right choice for me, my bitch, future puppies and my breed. If I get something wrong please pm me so I can clairfy, please remember that no matter how experienced you may be now you were in my shoes once upon a time :-( I am not an idiot and share your love for dogs and thier wellbeing.

>To clear this -  'outcrossing' I mean that Dam and Sire are not related.

And you'd be right - in the world of dogs that is what outcrossing means. (I understand that in the cat world it means what we call crossbreeding, but that's not relevant here!)

Oh... I want a cat but OH won't let me :-( Love Ragdolls but he said dogs, ferrets and horses are enough to be going on with! Bless - I think he thinks I am bonkers but I have grown up having loads of animals :-) Love showing them all too!

Don't think I'd go the Ragdoll way if I was wanting to breed totally healthy animals.  By the way not getting at you but as the dog fraternity are being called at the moment I suppose it won't be long before the cat, horse etc. etc. are called too.

I would rather start a petition to allow Horse & Country to televise Crufts, I bet they would be great!

on the horse and country channel they aske for your views and to email them via their website so if you think they are the ones that will be ok to film crufts let them know your views the more views they get they just might start talks with the kc

>they get they just might start talks with the kc

They have ;-)  they filmed DD and will be helping the KC out with Crufts so I Heard!  Although it might not be able to be broadcast there's no reason why the groups shouldn't be on DVD etc ;)  and the KC will be filming and they need someone with equipment to do so ;)

> Don't think I'd go the Ragdoll way if I was wanting to breed totally healthy animals.

Ok, call me naive but I haven't heard of any health problems in Ragdolls.

Ooh, I'll do that, thanks! I heard that although the Beeb are refusing, nobody else is allowed to - but I'd love to be wrong!

I feel so sorry for the people who like to watch and are now being denighed.

I liked watching it and wont be able to see it now?

After PDE was aired, I spoke to Caroline Kisko, and she told me that with in 24 hours of the programme being broadcast the KC had offers on the table to film and broadcast from Crufts. She also said that each year the Kennel Club asked the BBC to show the more serious side of dogs, i.e. the health testing, responsible breeding, where to get a well bred puppy from etc.. and each year the BBC refused to because they said viewers were not interested in watching the dogs the viewers wanted to see the stalls and look at the shopping they could buy. I was also told that which ever company does get the right to film Crufts from now on they would have to sign a contract with the Kennel club to agree to show the above mentioned type of things.

I also think that the time has come to look for another braodcaster and dump the BBC, I don't think I can cope with any more of their inane broadcasts, and after all the recent trouble they have been in for one thing or another, (anybody seen Wossy's blog on the internet? and to think he is paid £18,000,000 of our licence fee?!?!?!?!?!) Only two days ago I saw yet another report in the paper of them doing something so stupid I could barely believe it.

kisko along with ervin are part of the problem, its time the kc had a change and had people who cared at the top.they only work at the kc they don't own it, it should be about dogs not income.

he/she are bigot's and any breed they don't like have been slammed,
they expect breedrs to put thing right that will take genarations to put right to do it in no time, forgod sake the human race isn't perfect ane we have been trying foe millons of years, why should animals be so diffrent, perfection is unatainable in anything.

My opinion so don't all shout at once.

> it should be about dogs not income.

As it is a non profit organisation I would say it already is about the dogs.  All monies raised go back into research, education etc.

>they expect breedrs to put thing right that will take genarations to put right to do it in no time

The sooner breeders start the better then.
I am not going to shout but please don't blaspheme either :-)

I read somewhere it only takes 7 generations to change a breed. not shore if this is true.

> I read somewhere it only takes 7 generations to change a breed. not shore if this is true.

In the case of something like excessive wrinkle I doubt it need take that long as there seems to have always been puppies produced without these extremes that go to pet homes.

Getting back to the original thread. I have always felt that we should be shown every BOB winner. Told something about the breed and perhaps how many of that breed were shown at Crufts on that given day. (i.e. how many the BOB winner beat to take BOB)

Looking at it from another view point.

How many people in the breeds set for exclusion have worked hard all year to get a dog qualified.  The hundreds of hopefuls who are 'going to Crufts', only to find that the BBC are saying that they are now not going to be able to compete.  I would be devastated if it were me.  Surely from a human view point if they were going to do this they should have given the show dog public a year 'not to prepare for Crufts and spend lots of money doing it at champ shows', so that come March they would not be denied the 60 seconds run around the ring they had built themselves up for.

I am not sad they will not be covering Crufts.  I hope to enjoy my day and also my shopping, yes I like that to.  I wonder if the breed clubs will be able to make videos, that would be a fantastic way to look at the day in years to come.

What about the friends for life, I loved watching that last year and balled my eyes out. That wee girl her dog Yepa it was so lovely to watch that. I'm all for Horse & Country taking over they have made a super job of Discover Dogs, fingers crossed I certainly be emailing them.

> kisko along with ervin are part of the problem

Well at least these are both dog people.

Caroline is the daughter of the late lovely Mike Stockman (Keeshond breeder among others) and Ronnie Irving is married To a  top Border Terrier breeder.

Interestingly both breeds that are healthy and unexaggerated and one at least of a working type.

Caroline Kisko also races her Siberians.

they both also dislike pei with a passion.
My self and other breeders have worked very hard to improve the problems in the breed, along the way i have made up 2 champions, 1 of them going g2 at crufts.
I am on my 4th gen untacked litter.
i have also had 3 g1 at champ show's along with other group placing's and a rbis at a champ show.

Some of us are trying very hard but still feel we have been let down badly.

> Some of us are trying very hard but still feel we have been let down badly.

In what way?  If you are managing to breed dogs that do not require tacking why would you object to them pressurising others to do the same?

> they both also dislike pei with a passion

Do they? Or do they just dislike unhealthy dogs?

>Some of us are trying very hard but still feel we have been let down badly.

As you say, it's only some of, not all.  Your obviously already going where the KC want you to go so what is the problem?

I expect she feels much like us Cavalier people do - most of us ARE testing for hearts and eyes and many of us are scanning for SM (though the scan is as yet not much use), but 'that programme' made it sound like no show breeders bother to health test. :-(

But why the issue with the Kennel club?

> I expect she feels much like us Cavalier people do - most of us ARE testing for hearts and eyes and many of us are scanning for SM (though the scan is as yet not much use),

Sorry Lucy, I have to take up the point about scanning.......since it's all we've got and the statistical evidence does show some success with breeding MRI scanned free of SM, I wouldn't say it's "not much use".
It's biggest use, and it is huge, is it's provision of data to add to the EBV analysis.

I didn't say it wasn't any use - but I know of clear scanned dogs producing SM affected puppies, so it's not as much use as we would like yet. As you say, the EBV analysis should hopefully help more in the future. :-)

Have to say that Ronnie Irving has been extremely helpful with me over the years and answered any queries politely and quickly.  I do feel that the KC has improved greatly over the last 5 years or so, yep they've got a long way to go still but they are getting there.

some of us are breeding for the betterment of our breed, we suffer badly with people breeding for money and colour.
My issue with the kc is that even with writen request from the breed club not to register incorrect colours, they still do, they will register anything, that is why i say money more important.
They set out a breed standard for us all to follow but don't do it them selves.

Health is the most important thing, but some breeders don't believe that its the all important £

it is not just the tacking, the breeders in my breed who care have been trying very hard, bringing in imports to add to the gene pool, to add hopefully healthy pei.

tacking is not a big problem but it dose happen, we need reasher into why when dogs that have very little wrinkle need doing,and some that are heavy don't.
you cannot tell when a puppy is born, how wrinkly they are or are not going to be.

What i want to see is health test put into place.

not all pei are unhealthy