Nice to see this thread has turned in to knock all the rescues again, with the usual, I know somebody, who knows somebody, who stood next to somebody, who was on the same bus with some body who was treated terribly by a rescue.

It's the same thing some one else complained about earlier on in this thread when they moaned about being slated on a rescue forum for breeding.

The excess of dogs in this country or any other country for that matter will never be resolved, simply because those who breed and those who rescue are poles apart with no common ground.

The rescue I work for, or more accurately, the welfare charity I work for have a number of aims, one of them being, encouraging responsible breeding practices, another, to encourage responsible ownership, and of course to find homes for dogs needing new homes. To me those aims are consistent with the aims of a good breeder, although the breeder would only be  finding homes for dog they've bred.

So are breeders and rescues really poles apart?

So are breeders and rescues really poles apart?

I think that this thread has demonstrated that yes some breeders and some rescues are poles apart. Perhaps a lot of rescues have such a poor view of breeders because the majority of dogs who come into rescue that can be traced back to a breeder are dogs bred by those breeders who are not interested in the view that a dog bred by them is their responsibility for it's entire life. It needs to be realised that responsible breeders will take their dogs back at any stage and will have the best interests of their home bred dogs at heart - and will also help out other responsible breeders in this lifelong commitment as well.

I think that rescues may have had their view of all breeders tarnished by the hordes of breeders who wipe their hands of any commitments as soon as their pups are sold and have gone out the front door - dogs from reputable, responsible breeders probably don't go into general rescue at a regular rate because those breeders are the rehoming facility for the dogs they have bred.

If a rescue knows the breeder a dog came from surely it is better to contact that breeder in the hope that it is one of the responsible breeders dogs and thus let that breeder take back it's dog so freeing up a much needed space for the constant stream of dogs from other sources.

There is no facility on the Pet Log site to record a breeder except in the notes box, but this is really for other ID information.The tattoo register always has the breeder on their records if the dog was tattooed as a puppy & previous owners details are always available too

If a "stray"is brought into a rescue or stray kennels & is tattooed, the English & Welsh law of "Found Property"applies & all efforts are required by law to find the owner & if the NDTR are contacted in such circumstances they will contact the breeder if the owner cannot be contacted or tells them that they do not want the dog

The tatto registry always keep the breeders details and always contact the breeder if a dog is found and owner not available.

The tattoo registry was started up and is run by dog people.

I also think the problem that most rescues have is that most dogs they receive have come via BYB's and puppyfarms, (so of course they don't want their dogs back) those of us whom offer a lifetime of service, health checks,and do our best to find the correct homes generally have a good bond with our pups owners and stay in contact taking back our pups with no need for rescues involvement, it is only the rare few who will slip through our nets and send a dog off to rescue, so I dare say rescue are far more use to hearing, No and not interested, "than oh no, please send my dog back to me."

I would guess rescue get pretty disheartend by it all.

But I would say to them, always keep trying there may well be one of us out there who would be horrified we did not get our dog back, but to be fair they must have to go through loads of bad apples to find a decent breeder.

The tattoo registry was started up and is run by dog people

Brilliant to be honest I recommended every one of my last litters owners to have their pup done, I will have my girl done too.

> So are breeders and rescues really poles apart?

Interesting thread and one which will always have mixed opinions.
As a breeder it is terribly difficult to accept the that, despite the fact I am effectively my own rescue society, I am criticised for filling Britain with too many pedigree puppies.
Yes there are too many puppies being bred - but if people like me back out then the slack will be taken up by the less scrupulous.
I think breeders should be more clued up about the legal steps they could take (or at least threaten) to ensure that any owner of their puppy will not dare to move a puppy on. Letting puppy buyers know, in no uncertain terms, that I will not hesitate to sue the ass off someone who doesn't abide by my 'no rescue other than me' policy,works for me.

Sorry Robert - but on the off chance one slipped through this safety net I contacted several rescue centre managers and asked if they would inform me of in this eventuality - all said NO...none of my business once they recieve the dog.

What I find so sad about these debates is that the same old excuses pop up about rescues having all sorts of problems and needing dedicated owners, a rescue is an open book, the problems if there are any, are on show, a puppy from a breeder is a closed book that when opened may just jump up and bite you.

So, our rescued Labrador (who, incidentally, was in SEASON when we picked her up from the rescue!) she is such an open book we can know that she will not get HD in future? Seeing as we know nothing about her parents. We don't even know her age. What about her elbows, her eyes? Had she been bought from a good breeder, we would have known the parents' hip scores, elbow scores and eye test results -here we have a dog that although lovely, could end up crippled at any time, we just don't KNOW. Hence we have always felt a lot more money has to be set aside for her than any of the other dogs, as she is far more of a time bomb as far as health goes.

BTW she also had a serious cat chasing problem when we got her -that wasn't on show either as there were no cats in the rescue.

Sorry Robert - but on the off chance one slipped through this safety net I contacted several rescue centre managers and asked if they would inform me of in this eventuality - all said NO...none of my business once they recieve the dog.

That's the difference between a good rescue and a bad one, If I was contacted by a breeder then I would be delighted to let them have the dog back, having said that though,  I can see that the rescue managers said "No", because the dog is in their care they would have a duty to ensure the dogs on going welfare, and there maybe other implications which would mean the dog couldn't be returned, legal, or what ever, that shouldn't mean an out of hand "NO" though, the managers. I would have thought would have explored the possibility of returning the dog.

Putting all that a side, I don't see any reason for any one not to be civil on the telephone or unhelpful, I've been on the end of those calls too when I've contacted breeders about dogs, and also other rescues that have had the breed in that I deal with, I've called offering to take the dog, sign a change of ownership contract, assume all responsibility, both financial and welfare, only to have the same response as you have, oddly one of the rescues I contacted made local radio and local newspaper appeals for money to help this dog, but refused dedicated breed rescue help, perhaps the rescues have other motives for not passing the dog to other parties.

BTW she also had a serious cat chasing problem when we got her -that wasn't on show either as there were no cats in the rescue.

I would consider it a minimum requirement of any dog put up for re homing to be properly assessed for all that it may encounter in a home, other dogs, cats, children, vacuums, livestock, the big outside world, where it's not possible then surely that is relevant information and should be passed on to potential owners, likewise, potential new owners should assess the dog them selves, spend time with it, ask questions and go away and consider all things for a few days.

A rescue is an open book in that you know it hasn't got the health checks, knowing that you would not reasonably expect guarantee's on it's health, nor would you expect guarantee's on a puppy whose parents have all the relevant health checks, for example, my understanding is that environmental factors have an impact on dogs hips, hence we in the know don't allow puppies to run up and down stairs or go for long walks early on in their development. I also understand that some eye tests are like a an MOT on a car, they show the dog is clear on the day it was tested, next step could show up a problem, other health problems can surface with out prior warning in dogs from previously healthy stock.

Also an open book in that, if properly assessed you have a pretty good picture of what the dog is like, likes, dislikes, etc.