Hi

Just to let you know Lizzy was rehomed today at my boyfriends mums. It was very hard to see her go, but hopefully a better life for us all. For the past 4/5 days I've been juggling to keep them apart...so life does seem a little easier already. But I still feeling guilty...

Thanks to all for your responses.

Anne

Dont feel guilty atleast you can see her, you've done the right thing i'm sure you and Lizzy will be lot happier.  Take care.

Warm regards Susan

I'm sure you've done absolutely the right thing for both dogs, Anne so don't feel guilty.

I've only just noticed this thread,so forgive me for coming in so late,firstly what's done is done,you did what everyone here told you to do and what you thought was best for your dogs,so please dont feel guilty :)

BUT dont you think rehomeing one is jumping the gun a little? Correct me if i'm wrong but they have only had little scraps,which isnt that unusual when you have 2 of the same s*x breed,so i have heard,and i thought you had corrected this by not grooming them together??

Why not get one spayed and carry on as usual? How can anyone possibly predict that this pair will hate eachother in the future and try and kill eachother? On one hand people are saying not to tar all ebt's with the same brush as they are not all aggressive,but on the other they are saying re-home one as this breed especially can be vicious/aggressive,or maybe i'm reading this all wrong

I've had 2 females living with me on manier occasion,the closest in age being 4 months,cant say i ever had a problem! At the moment i have 2 females and a male,all are neutered/spayed as have been all of my previous dogs, as i dont believe in keeping pets entire,i dont see the point of putting them through the stress of having to ignore their s*xual/natural needs if they are never going to be bred from.Perhaps this is why i have never had any problems with same s*x breeds as they have all been altered???

& you have personal experiene of two littermate BT females that have serious disagreements Hailey ?

I know one of the BT clubs secretary & she has has BT's for well in excess of 40 years. In that time she has gained a more than little knowledge & experience of the breed. She has told me on many occasions that it is very very very unwise to have two BT's of the same sex in a pet HH. When she was actively breeding & showing they did have a small kennels & never kenneled two dogs or two bitches together not even mother & daughter once they were past the 6 month stage. mixed sex couples were fine & she has a male & female as house dogs now & never has any problem. She also used to be actively involved in rescue &  has lost count of the number given up to rescue from a similar situation as the OP was in.

When two bitches fall out especally if it is hormonal around seasons & puberty the fail out will be extremely seriou & permanent & will(not could)leave to serious damage being done to one if not both of the bitches. Believe I know from bitter personal experience. It can be nothing to do with the breed being aggressive but more to do with the status battle that can & frequently does hsppen between bitches of the same or similar ages. Neutering them both will have no effect as they are still the same status & neutering the wrong one could & has been also be fatal

I just think giving one away because something 'may' happen in the future is jumping the gun a little,that's all.
I've always been under the impression that the submissive dog in these situations should be the one to get neutered,and it seems it's clear which is which in this case.Maybe the submissive one would have been happy to stay in that position,it is impossible to tell,just like we cant predict for sure that there would have been trouble afoot.Obviously i cant predict the future :)

The OP only posted 6 days ago,she stopped grooming them together and the squabbling stopped,it seems she was frightened into rehoming one of her dogs!I'm not sure how this thing could have been sorted efficiently in 6 days

Moonmaiden your friend is obviously much more experienced than any of us in this subject,so if she says with absolute certainty 2 bitches together will fight,then she must be right :) There's got to be thousand's and thousand's of ebt's in Britain,there's got to be some who live happily with the same sex.

I had 2 pups together 5 years ago .They are brother and sister cockers .I was lucky and had no problems at all with fighting .I did not intend to have them both ,the male dog Joey was bought by another person who was cruel to him so I took him on .

Actually there are not thousands & thousands of Bull Terriers(no such breed as English Bull Terriers in the UK BTW) around they are not a very numerous breed & often do not produce any offspring at all(I can think of a top BT dog who sadly left no progeny despite attempts to do so)much to the detriment of the breed as he was a super dog both in character, temperament & physical health

They do not live happily in same sex households & this is a known characteristic of the breed. At one time they had a terrible temperament problem with other dogs parsay & it took a lot of hard work by responsible breeders to improve this to the level they are at today of being good with other dogs

The lower ranked bitch is the one who should be neutered however true Alpha dogs & bitches rarely have the need to prove their ranking & it is not a cure all as the intact bitch can still have mood/temperament swings around her seasons & of cousre the effects are not immediate(been there done that with another breed personally)

Unless you have actually experienced two bitches falling out it is very difficult to undersatnd. Bitches will & sometimes do fight to the death when they fall out. This is why lots of breed rescues will only rehome different sexes(with one or both being neutered obviously) I certainly didn't believe it could happen until two of mine fell out & the submissive bitch was already spayed !

I currently have one bitch(spayed) & 4 entire dogs & the bitch is still Aphka. I did have another spayed bitch before I rescued the GSD-the GSD would only tolerate the other very submissive bitch for brief periods fortunately the older bitch was very much older than the GSD & spent a lot of time sleeping away from the GSD on her own(she died aged 19 2 yaers ago)had she been a more forceful or younger bitch I would have had serious problems

I've always been under the impression that the submissive dog in these situations should be the one to get neutered,and it seems it's clear which is which in this case.

Yes Hailey the submissive dog. In bitches it won't make any difference!

Hailey, I don't think you are taking in the potential for damage that these to bitches could do to each other.
I have owned one breed for 30 yrs, they're not that keen on fighting &, while it's not pleasant, it is usually possible to keep 2 bitches who don't get on. However, my other breed is not one in which I would ever consider keeping same sex dogs, because I wouldn't want to risk rehoming which would be the only option if they took a dislike to each other -  it could lead to a literal fight to the death at worst. At best it would mean expensive vet bills.
The OP acted very sensibly - far easier for owner, new owner and dog to adjust at a young age to the change than to wait until a serious fight erupts.

Also the breeder of these pups obviously was not someone with much knowledge (letting two go together proves that) so there is no telling what sort of background the parents ahd regards temperament.

Spayed bitches can actually be more agressive with the absense of the female hormones, so won't help in bitch on bitch conflicts.

With a breed like this surely waiting to see how bad things got and then trying to home an older pup or grown bitch with a damaged temprament would be far harder.

Prevention is better than cure in many things.

Thank you Anwen

Hailey

I was not 'jumping the gun',it was the  most difficult decision I have had to make regarding a pet. And I was not 'frightened' of rehoming Lizzy as you state, just heart broken.
It may have not been long after posting that I made the decision, but I had had trouble way before that & obvisously had many thoughts before even finding Champdogs.
I could not get the pups neutered has they are now only 5 months old. The submissive pup was not happy at all...very much the opposite. She cowered in the corner just before the dominate pup 'went' for her. Luckly I was there every time...and you had to be there to realise how bad these attacks could of been. I did get badly scratched when pulling Lizzy off. Just imagine what it had been like at 1 year old...I would not of had a chance.
I was not going to risk the welfare or life of one pup, just to wait & see if all worked out ok.
I did think long & hard & also had the complete understanding & back up of my dog trainer. She said that neither dog could be happy living in such tension everyday..let alone me.

Molly has come right out of her shell since Lizzy left, leaping about & very relaxed. Lizzy is enjoying her new home & has fitted in very well.

Well done AKH you have shown so much more thought for the pups future wellbeing than the person who bred them, and sold them to you

I would suggest joining the breed club and attending some Bully events.  You will enjoy them and get to know people who will be able to help you along with making bully ownership the pleasure it can be.

Thank you Brainless for your support...I felt I was being badly judged without good cause!
I will have a look at the breeders club...events sound good fun!

Anne

No I think it was sad that you were put in this position in the firswt place as a knowledgeable breeder would not ahve taken advantage of your lack of experience and sold you two pups, let alone same sex.

You will be able to see the other pup, and seperately taway from the house the bitches may even tolerate each other when you meat for walk (if not no harm).

A difficult decision for you, but I'm sure you've done the right thing.

I just want to echo everyone else by saying that i think you did the right thing. It must have been a very difficult decision, (but ultimately the right one) but had you left it as a wait and see situation you could have ended up with some very serious damage done ( i have heard of two staffies fight to the death and the owner had to come home to a dead dog and a badly damaged one) and it would be even harder to rehome as they get older, because you would be much more attached and more people will take on a pup than an adult dog that may potentially have picked up some bad habits along the way. Well done, but at least in this situation everyone is happy.

I had to make a similar decision many many years ago to part with a dog It broke my heart at the time but when I saw him again he acknowledged me & then went happily back to his new owners not in the least bit interested in me at all

Like you it was in the dogs best interest & I'm sure your girl will have a lovely time

Anne,

It was a very brave thing to even admit that there was a serious problem, many would have waited until the vets bills were huge ;)  you have done the best for both  bitches and rehomed before temperaments were damaged, that was not taken lightly and I can imagine how heartbroken you feel.  Don't let anyone, now or in the future tell you it was wrong, you have lived through it, they haven't ;)

We took on a very sad dog (the wife didn't want him but the hubby did :( )  he had a brilliant life with us and was a different dog after a few days with us.  I'm sure both bitches are happier already and things can only get better for you all now :)

Regards
Dill