Charts. I've also included the suggested 'On a Whim' litter. With no figures on show/trialing expenses forthcoming, I believe that I read the average person showing spends £70 per day showing. I'll figure in two shows for the first and fourth years (puppy and being bred years) and six shows for years 2 and 3 when I post the next group of revisions on the breeder's chart.

They can be found at Charts.

I think the charts sare really good, it is next to impossible to get an average as all breeders circumstances/facilities vary, and different breeds have varying requirements for health testing and rearing requirements. Some need a lot of heat, where others will require only extra heat until eyes are open etc etc. I enjoyed the Whim litter, even that didn't net them much income!

Admin, any chance we can get all would be Stud dog owners and breeders to see these?

Once they are completed, they will be available to anyone who wishes to use them on their websites. I'm doing an article that can (if desired) be used in conjunction with the charts. Basically on why breeders incur the types of expenses that they do and some of the thinking behind the other charts. So, if the Admin on this site wishes to use them, they may.

Latest revision of the charts are uploaded. I still have to work out some type of costs for field training/trialing and/or showing to add to the breeder's chart. Also, I need input from all of you -- Do you find that puppy raisers (those people who just want to breed sally to benny to get one just like sally) sell their puppies at a lower cost than breeders? I tend to think so, but would like input before reducing the selling price on the puppy raiser chart. I'm thinking of reducing it by £50 or more per puppy.

In my area, Sally and Benny's puppies would probably sell for £200-£250.

Sierra, I was interested to see on the chart that pups were vacc at 5 weeks, is this normal in the US? Just being nosey! Wondered if there were more "reactors" in pups done at this age?

Sierra - just looked at your charts and am horrified - no wonder I'm broke at present. We each took 2 weeks off work, but then hubby was made redundant so was off full time, it was actually a godsend. I have tried to think of any other expenses and I thought of disinfectant. I bought a specific kennel one which cost me £20 for a gallon. We also had huge rolls of disposable tissue paper (like a giant kitchen towel) and I got through 3 of those. As they were 'donated' I don't know how much they would have cost, but it would be fairly significant I should think. We also bought a roll of chain link fencing for a large run area. How about costs for visiting prospective studs? I think the list is a brilliant idea as you seem to be covering every eventuality.
Lorna

Somewhere on another thread, I've posted the schedule by which most breeder US pups are vaccinated. My puppies started vaccinations at 5 weeks and then were alternated every week between DHLPP and Coronavirus. I had not had experience with vaccine-reaction puppies until coming to the UK. That's not to say that it doesn't occur, merely that no one had talked about it on the show circuits (and when you're with the same people 50 weeks out the year, 125 shows, they tend to 'gossip' about everything under the sun).

WL I was interested to know that you found it unusual, re the 5wk vaccinations. as long as i can remember i have always had my pups done at 5 weeks 10 wks and 12 weeks. bitch is boosted two wks prior to birthing .I thought this was common practise, like sierra I have never had a pup that suffered a reaction .so now im wondering could it be that having it done at 5 wks actually stops the reactions , just a thought . oh Sierra have you added in the booster injection prior to births, mari

No, Mari, and that was another good suggestion. Will put that on the list of updates to do for the breeder chart. I'm trying to figure out how to amortize the cost of the items like heating lamp, heating pad, kennel over several litters. If I am understanding most of the breeders that I talk to, they breed the bitch a maximum of three times and have perhaps four bitches. So, I need to think about the longevity of all the items except the kennel since that should be good for at least 15 years.

Hi Sierra

Heat lamps. Always have spare bulb!
(My first litter born a couple od days early, I was due to take daughter up to Guys for EEG same day and infra red bulb blew. Mad dash to nearest town to get another bulb before I would consider trip to London - talk about stressed).

I use Ceramic ones, heat only, no light at £14.25 per bulb, last longer than red ones.
~~

Whelping box - consists of cardboard boxes rearranged to make one large box so cost is generally around £1.50 for roll of parcel tape to put them together. I like these because they can be rearranged as needed to create more "doors" for growing pups and then thrown away so no risk of any bugs from one litter to next.

For last litter invested in 4' x 3' crate £111.00 which I moved Dam and pups into when the pups were about 2 weeks old. Made cleaning up much easier as could shut little darlings in so they could not "help".
~~

See you are down to only one dollar sign now <g>

Christine

SHHHHHHHEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHH..... one lil dollar sign....ROFL.

Okay, will add in a spare bulb.

I don't use cardboard boxes because my GSPs would have eaten them and they are difficult to keep dry and clean. I like the whelping boxes made of either the heavy plastic or metal since they are easy to wash out with a disinfectant and are less destructible. Only problem is storage. My absolute favorite is a heavy plastic one with the heated center. Haven't seen one of those advertised over here though.

The Sally and Benny pups are likely to have untested parents as a lot of the owners wouldn't even know about testing. Also it is customary for new owners to inoculate pups, unless the pups stay beyond 8 or 10 weeks which is normal age for first innoculations, though I know some breeders have an early Parvo shot done if there is high risk!

Don't know if I missed it but what about returned puppies, sometimes after a year or more who need care and repair before being rehomed, if that is possible. JH

Good point! Here are my questions then so I can factor in one returned puppy a year later.

a. Do you refund the purchase price of the puppy? If so, is it the complete price or a portion?
b. Do you resell that dog after rehabilitation? If you do, what is the normal reselling price?
c. What length of time would be normal prior to rehoming?

I will factor in things like classes for socialization, vet care, food for the length of time.

Thanks, again!