Hi Lilymunster

Yeah pearsons is still here - i did some work experience there as well when i was 18, it's branched out now in wood green as well.

Sorry didn't make a note of the name - but the breeder i am talking about - i don't have physical evidence, a member if my family was engaged to a member of their family - i went to the kennels a few times, before they split - and i'm making this point so that you know these aren;'t accusations arising from the split - i was told of all these KC get outs by 2 members of their family and my family member. They were just selling one litter that they had lied about the sire on. It was their info that informed me of kc regulations. There is nothing I could do otherwise I would.

Nikki xxxxxxxx

If my friend does get her bitches hips scored, the sire's are as well, and any other tests necessary (don't know if Golden's need eyes tested) then certainly speaks well for her. At the moment, however, she knows very little about the breed in terms of health or breed standard. No idea whether her bitch is a good representative of the breed. She has had a Golden in the recent past, which she bred. Before that she had a OES, which she also bred. I find it a little odd that someone who is a pet owner only wants bitches and always has a least one litter.

It concerns me that someone who wants to breed has spent so little time learning. That is what bothers me the most. She is basically a responsible person and loves dogs.

Stacey

Hi Stacy, yes Goldens do need to be eye tested yearly.
Christine, Spain.

Hi Julie,

I think the post may come over wrong as when I read this I felt a little defensive but I think you didn't mean quite how it sounded. """""I'm interested to know why people allow their bitches to get pregnant/have pups. I don't mean experienced breeders who are established and protecting/enhancing their breed but people who basically mate their dogs with little or no knowledge of the dogs or the medical side of things""""

As I have not asked or been on the breeding section about my litter I am assuming I was not included :-) but thoughtU would share some of my reasons.

As you may be away I have had my first litter 5 weeks ago. I have owned dogs for 20 years I can 100% assure you that what this litter has cost me I could have easily bought another dog infact 4 LOL but you cannot get the pick of the pick from someone elses litter or not easily and we all have interpretations of what we see or like in the breed standard, As an inexperienced breeder I am fully protecting and enhancing the breed. I thought long and hard about mating my girl and also her selected stud who comes from one of the top breeders in the UK who I a superly grateful for helping me. I took advice and was happy about the quality of my girl or I would not have mated her and although had no breeding experience, I did my homework and made sure I had plenty of suport form expereinced people and vetinary support . I also would like to show my own dogs. My breed, westies have few puppies so I knew that even if I was not a top show name I had done enough work , the pedigree is good so any surplus puppies would be homed reasonably easy. I bought my first 2 westies so I am taking the next step and having pick of my own. I am keeping 2 ( don't tell my hubby) as I am more than happy with the outcome of my litter. ( of course IMHO) So there is my little story.

BFN Pam :-)

In reply to the original post: Imagine the scenario of a caring person buying, lets say a cocker spaniel puppy from a commercial breeder - not being in the "dog world" they knew no better, they just answered an advert in the local paper for well reared, Kc reg, parvo vacc puppies. Not a puppy farm but a place where many puppies are bred in reasonable conditions but no great shakes pedigree wise. While its growing up the puppy is much admired by friends and they say "why dont you breed from her". When they go back for the booster at 14 months ( just about to have its second season) they ask the vet if she is suitable to breed from. Their vet said no health tests were needed, many vets are still not "up" on all the different breeds and their health test requirements and give it a clean bill of health. They love their little dog so much and would love to have one of their babies - after all it wouldn't be the same to go out and buy another - they want one of her babies,and It would be such fun to have two together. So they go back to their bitch's breeder, at the vet's suggestion, and use an unrelated mediochre stud dog at a low price. The stud dog owner/bitches breeder will only encourage because they want the stud fee and maybe a chance to make a profit on the puppies by selling them for the client.
To the first time breeder with no access to other advice this seems to good to be true - they will get their new puppy and the stud dog owner assures them the puppies have wonderful homes waiting.
I am not condoning this type of scenario at all, but surely most of you will accept that this does still happen, with the new "breeder" acting in ignorance and innocence, with no idea of the probelms that can come up because they have no expereince and look upon birth as a natural thing to happen. Vets are happy to suggest mating at the second season for a smaller breed, and have no interest in pedigrees. Many people still believe its a good thing for a bitch to have a litter, and if they have no experienced friends, poor advice from their vet and have not discovered a site like this then this sort of thing will continue to happen.
I try to be pleasant when answering questions from inexperienced breeders, after all once the bitch has been mated its too late for us to advise against it, and all we can do is try and help for the bitch/puppies sake to give good advice. If people are slated/insulted on their first post they will not return for a second time (especially the pleasant, easily hurt type) and if they are determined to breed, then they will. I am smarting with anger sometimes at some of the posts from first time breeders, but surely its better to inform and get them on our side rather than frighten them off the board and have no good advice at all.

WL Not sure about you but I replied to this lastnight thinking it was a recent post, as it was at the top of the list, but it isn't LOL now looking at it again. Someone must have replied to it for it to return to the top.

I think your scenario is more common that any of the others.

Pam

LOL @Pam ! So when are you going to tell your Hubby about the two you are going to keep ??!!

Lucy

LOL Lucy.. SHhhhhh he'll hear..

I am hoping he won't notice another one, they are just little..

I wished I could keep them all. Everytime I say that my hubbys eyebrows raise LOL Men.. who would have them.

I was only keeping a girl, but they boys are nice to so keeping a boy if he don't notice. LOL

Hope you and the bumb are well.

You know I posted on here and never noticed it was old till this morning and them thought someone was tricking me LOL,

Pam

If you keep two of the same colour Pam and if he does not see them both at the same time he may never know! ;)

Best wishes, John

But if Pamela is getting sick and Hubby has to take care of the dogs he will think that he is drunk. seeing 2 dogs at the same time with the same colour.

Thanks John, ROFLOL,

I will be up s**t creek if they are different colours in my breed they are all white ( remember WHWT) LOL I Know what you meant though but couldn't resist a bit of fun with you.

I will tell him when he was drunk he said it was fine and even picked the 2 :-) LOL

I'll try never to get sick though.

Pam

Having the two won't be the problem as you can get away with that but if you keep a boy and a girl how are you going to get away with explaining the boys twinky !! LOl :D :D :D

Lucy

You have to start somewhere!All breeders had to start somewhere.That is why it is so horrible when you ask a question and everyone jumps down your throat or no one replys.We all know that we had a "first time" at one time.And for those out there visiting this sight that are caring for a pregnant rescued dog or for some reason just want to breed, we need to respect them for whatever they are doing.This should be a place you can come to get knowledgable help, at least the people who know nothing about breeding and have a expectant girl are reaching out and asking for help.And some of you do remember that you were once a begginer but unfortunatly not all of you.I have posted questions and have gotten absolutly no replys (during a busy time of day mind you).I was upset to see that no one was willing to help out a first timer.So for all of you first time breeders or unexpected breeders, I am here for you.God Bless all the Doggies of the world:)