I very much doubt Tyler intended to do serious harm to your son, simply because a dog can bite FAR quicker than a person can react, and had he intended to do harm, your son would have had to have his face stitched up.

I also very much doubt he bit unprovoked, no dog bites without reason, but if you dont KNOW that reason, or if that isnt a reasonable reason (ie pain, fear).. then you have a problem.

His paperwork means nothing, sorry to say.

In the eyes of the law, it is more than likely he would be deemed as a pitbull. You cannot now honestly say he has never bitten anyone because he has. He is also NOT well socialised with people or animals and he is not well trained.

All that means that IF the police tried to seize him, you would stand little chance of avoiding a destruction order.

Whilst I dont for a second believe he is a bad dog, or that his problems are incurable, realistically speaking there are thousands of bullbreed types waiting for homes in rescue, many of whom do not have Tylers history.

You will be hard pushed to find him a rescue that will take him, even if he hadnt bitten.

In all honesty and it pains me to say this, since I don't think you have the knowledge or experience to train him properly, and he has little to no chance of getting a home and a very HIGH chance of winding up in police kennels, it would be fairer to have him pts.

Please let me know how YOU know that Tyler is not well socialised with people or animals and that he is not well trained.  Please also tell me how you know he has a very HIGH chance of winding up in police kennels.

> Could it be the dog was after the food and caught your son by mistake whilst trying to steal the food

Resource guarding probably was what sparked the attack, though that doesn't change the fact that it was over the top reaction.

I agree that you should get a Vet referral to a recognised behaviourist.

do you have Pet Insurance, as some policies do cover behaviour consultation.

I think that Theemx is talking about the current media frenzy regarding dogs (in particular bull breeds) and children. I adore staffies and think that they can be wonderful around children but alot of people have caused them to get a very bad reputation and now it seems that if there is any doubt as to their breed (and if you read lots of storys on deed not breed you will see alot of innocent dogs are accused of being pitballs) if your dog was to bite anyone else he would probably be either destroyed straight away or put in police kennels. It is an awful situation to be in, the majority of people on here are very experienced when it comes to knowledge about dogs and rescues etc so I think they are just trying to make you aware of the problems you might face if you decided to re-home him.

Nobody knows how well socialised/trained anyone elses dog is on a forum this is something that only the owner knows ;-)

I know what it is like to feel that your every word is being scrutinised, this is just the downside to posting on an open forum but it is great that you are seeking advice and if you sift through the posts you will find some good advice (for example Lea) which will help you.

I hope you manage to get to the bottom of it all and can feel comfortable around him again :-)

I honestly think it is a little extreme to say that he hasn't been well socialised with people or animals...I may be wrong but I don't recall anyone even asking how or when he was socialised so Theemx that is a little unfair.

Again as many people have already stated without seeing what happened, spending time with the dog and family I don't believe anyone can advise to have someone's dog pts...unless there was a serious unprovoked attack that happened.

I'm not trying to defend anyone but a few comments on here could cause a much loved pet to be destroyed when infact there is alot more to it.

Like someone else said about a dog that bit and was pts...later it was found it had a pencil lodged in its ear!!  What a horrible scenario to be in.

I personally think a qualified Behaviourist should be sought.  If you look on the UK Registry of Dog Behaviourists you will not wind up with someone trying to rip you off.  You should get honest advice and help.  I think spending a little bit of money and time with someone like this will do both you, the family and Tyler some good.  Also if you do have insurance this may cover the cost if referred by your vet.

Also in the meantime, lots of training for Tyler.  Make him work for any food, rewards etc.  If you used a sausage to get him on his bed at night then when he gets to his bed put in a few sit, stand and down commands.  Get his mind working.  Also for the time being keep a very close eye on child and dog...no unsupervised contact at all.  If you leave a room then Tyler or child leaves with you.  If need be then Tyler is on a lead around the children and under constant control.

I'm sorry but i'm with Theemx on this one.  Whether socialisation has been mentioned or not, the fact remains as per Louise's posts that the dog guards it's bones.
The only thing I would disagree with is that most staffords that come through rescue tend to be without papers.  Certainly the majority of the rehomings I've dealt with have been, rarely have there been kc reg'd staffords.
If you're not going to consider the pts option, then I can only reiterate what everyone else has said, get a bloomin' good behaviourist Louise, because you've said yourself after living with your son for 3 years, this is the first time this has happened and your boyfriend/husband had his back to the incident so no-one other than your son and the dog knows what happened.
So who is to say it won't happen again.
Bite mark, 2 puncture wounds, ouch!

I know a fair few dogs who grumble when someone comes too close to them when they are enjoying a bone,the dogs we had when i was a kid used to do it.
I wouldn't put your beloved family member to sleep over a one off incident Louise,No way in the world!! It would take a hell of a lot for me to even remotely consider disposing of my dogs,I'm not sure i could do it for any reason,lettalone a little nip,to,lets face it a kid,and we all know they can be little tyrants to animals at times,and some even deserve a little reprimand from the family dog for being annoying!
I'd give him another chance,do some training/agility.You should perhaps take him to classes to hopefully form a better bond with him.Also let the kids do some easy training  and get them to reward him with some tasty food.

>I just think in this day and age people are far too sensitive, especially over their children

I couldn't agree more,and i have children! There are too many parents who scoop their kids up when a dog is in sight etc etc etc.Just too much "doggy paranoia" these days :(

It would take a hell of a lot for me to even remotely consider disposing of my dogs,I'm not sure i could do it for any reason,lettalone a little nip,to,lets face it a kid,and we all know they can be little tyrants to animals at times,and some even deserve a little reprimand from the family dog for being annoying!

That, to me, is a very worrying attidude . The dog punctured the child's face - so hardly a little nip. I just hope Ktee, for your childrens sake, that your dogs never feel the need to reprimand your children. And if it is someone else's child who is reprimanded by your dog then the ultimate decision as to what happened to your dog wouldn't be yours to make.

There are too many parents who scoop their kids up when a dog is in sight etc etc etc.Just too much "doggy paranoia" these days 

Perhaps they have met owners who think it is ok for their dogs to teach children a lesson.

> some even deserve a little reprimand from the family dog for being annoying!
>

I think that is a bit harsh! No child deserves to be bitten.

When it comes to our children I don't think that you can be over sensitive. I don't think we are talking about silly things like being scared of dogs because of breed or size etc but rather any aggression towards children is NOT acceptable. That to me is not being over sensitive but a responsible parent!

>Perhaps they have met owners who think it is ok for their dogs to teach children a lesson.

Oh ROFL Harley :(

When i talk,i am talking about MY children and MY own dogs,not someone else's dogs biting someone else's kid!

>I just hope Ktee, for your childrens sake, that your dogs never feel the need to reprimand your children.

Who by the way are grown teenagers now,so looks like we scraped by....

I'm not sure i could do it for any reason,lettalone a little nip,to,lets face it a kid,and we all know they can be little tyrants to animals at times,and some even deserve a little reprimand from the family dog for being annoying!

When i talk,i am talking about MY children and MY own dogs,not someone else's dogs biting someone else's kid!

Oh I didn't realise that you were talking about your own children being little tryrants to your dogs :(

> I'm sure if he wanted to he could have ripped the cheek off completely.  I'm not defending the dog, but I am not defending my son either and no-one can be sure what actually happened.  If it was a food issue or jealousy and can be nipped in the bud then that is better than losing a fantastic pet.
>

i think your perfectly right louise, its an extreme decision to make if you can;t be sure what happened. he certainly does not sound like a 'nasty' dog and i sounds like it can be worked on. the very best of luck and i hope someone near you can suggest a behaviourist to help

Ok - sorry I may have picked up the wrong idea from reading the post.

As I understand it, Tyler spends much of his time during the day shut away from the family, which WILL lead to poor socialisation with the other family members.

He also, unless I read it wrong, does not respond to the OP, so he is in my opinion, not well trained.

Does he socialise freely off lead with other dogs and people outside the home?

My point is there are a huge number of dogs like Tyler who are:

Very well trained, can be handled by all the family, some have KCGC awards.
Have never bitten anyone.
Are good on and off lead with other dogs.

And Im talking about dogs who ended up spending months effectively on death row, waiting for a court decision.

SOME of them went home.

Not all of them.

So what DOES Tyler have going for him, if you cannot say hes very well trained, social with dogs and other people and hasnt bitten?

How do I know about dogs ending up in court.. for 12 months I was involved with Deed Not  Breed, attempting to help people with dogs JUST like Tyler who wind up in police cells because of their appearance, because a neighbour with no braincells has said to the police 'ooh. they've got a pitbull', because the dog has barked at someone once....

I actually DONT think that Tylers behaviour warrants him being PTS.

Not at all.

I am looking at this from a realistic angle though, if you do not have the ability (and with a child at risk I would say it wouldnt matter if you DID), to sort Tylers problems out and make him safe, then you have to get rid of him.

Rehoming him would potentially leave him waiting months for a home, months in kennels that are hardly likely to help him behave better.
If you choose to rehome him yourselves, can you take him back if things go wrong?

What if he winds up in the wrong hands, and as I say.... if someone so much as hints that hes a pitbull... regardless of whether he is or not (it is, in the eyes of the law, irrelevant if a dog IS a pitbull by breeding, or not, it merely has to look sufficiently like one to be illegal, even if its a staffie x labrador!)...

I own 8 dogs, 6 of which are Boxers, 1 is a rottiexgreat dane and the other is a Bull mix, We show all of our boxers and have the greatest faith in their temperaments but our policy regardless of how well we know and trust our dogs is NOT to let anyone under the age of 16 or anyone who is not confident around dogs to be left alone with any of them, wether it be one dog or more at any time.       It is all to easy for something regardless of how well trained or socialised the dogs are it is not always there fault.

I know of an incident where a family had 4 rescue greyhounds, the nicest dogs you would ever meet, they had been with the family for 4 years and one day the son was in the garden playing on his swing and fell off, he screamed as he hit the ground and the dogs instantly attacked him, after treatment to bites on his face and hands he was ok but the dogs were all rehomed that day, but this attack was a one off it had never happened before and the trigger for it was the scream of pain from the fall,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,a simillar sound to what an injured rabbit or other animal may make.

My wife works as an A&E Dr and in the past year dog bite info she has gathered shows that 80% of bites treated were unprovoked and were Toy dogs, followed closley by Labs.

> I know of an incident where a family had 4 rescue greyhounds, the nicest dogs you would ever meet, they had been with the family for 4 years and one day the son was in the garden playing on his swing and fell off, he screamed as he hit the ground and the dogs instantly attacked him, after treatment to bites on his face and hands he was ok but the dogs were all rehomed that day, but this attack was a one off it had never happened before and the trigger for it was the scream of pain from the fall,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,a simillar sound to what an injured rabbit or other animal may make

I feel sorry for the dogs but I would have re-homed in the same situation.

My friend has a beautiful lab who really is the sweetest dog I have ever met and she trusts him totally around her children, he steps over the children he does as they say and he is not boisturous (sp) at all...what I am trying to say is that it really doesn't matter (to me anyway) what breed they are or how much damage they could inflict if I couldn't trust a dog around my children they would have to go (the dog not the children) as although I make sure I am around with the dogs and the children there are always times when I can't be (popping to the loo etc)

My wife works as an A&E Dr and in the past year dog bite info she has gathered shows that 80% of bites treated were unprovoked and were Toy dogs, followed closley by Labs.

The problem with that is, what people percieve as an unprovoked bite often isn't. :-(

Ah, but provoked by which, child or dog?

What most people do forget is at the end of the day a dog, our domestic best buddy is still an animal and each breed has it's inherent natural instincts,
DOGS ARE NOT PEOPLE!

Like has been said before, if he really wanted to do any damage then your son would have been seriously injured.

I do not for one second think this dog should be PTS before everything is checked throughly and looked at if you want this dog to stay with you or ever find a home.
There was a rottie on here the other day that everyone was shouting for it to be PTS,turns out he has a happy home with 2 ex police people who can offer him the training he neds and hopefully he has found a new forever home, so please do not put to sleep this dog till you know it was an unjust warningor a problem that can not be fixed.

The media make me furious when these things happen, because everyone has been brainwashed about staffords saying how dangerous they are and how unsafe round children, the minute they make one mistake they are a goner pts without a thought, yet a yorkie who repeatidly nips people and draws blood or a lhasa aphso thats bitten are forgiven and seen as  cute because their little, makes me sick to the pit of my stomach :(

I dont agree that we should put our children in danger by trying to train a dog we dont have the knowledge to do, but they way people see dogs and puppies so easily get riddable of if the slightest thing is wrong is quite horrible and not something I would ever practise.

> Like has been said before, if he really wanted to do any damage then your son would have been seriously inju

I agree, but he did sustain an injury not just a little scratch if I remember he had actually pierced the skin. To me a bite is a bite serious injury or small injury :-(

I would agree that you should always explore all the avenues first and then look at re-homing but in that case you must be entirely honest with the rescue/people and tell them if any dog has bitten....we have seen dogs come into rescue who were "angels" until we observed their behaviour!!

No dog should just be pts if there is a way around it after all it is a life we are talking about. From what i have read the poster doesn't seem to want that for her dog anyway she wanted advice and I think that Lea kindly provided details of where she could find a behaviourist and I believe she will take it from there. I think she should be applauded for coming on here for advice, she has been very honest! If she hadn't come on here for advice she may well have just rung her vets and most vets in this instance would recommend the dog being pts. Sometimes threads asking for help by people who aren't as dog experienced as others can end up being quite picky about what they should/shouldn't have done, no-one starts off owning dogs being an expert we all learn along the way and are bound to make mistakes :-)

Ah, but provoked by which, child or dog?

Well, your post said 80% of the dog bites were unprovoked, which suggests the dogs were unprovoked prior to biting.

What I am saying is, people often don't realise the warning signs a dog gives prior to biting, which would always be it's last resort in any 'normal' dog. People also often tell their dog off for growling, so the dog learns not to growl, but still doesn't like whatever made it growl in the first place. It then has learnt not to tell us if it doesn't like something, and as the other signs a dog isn't happy with somethign are too subtle for most humans to notice, the dog is said to have bitten without warning.

I meant, provoked by the child.

> people often don't realise the warning signs a dog gives prior to biting

I agree with this 100% this is what happened with our dog, he gave us signs but we didn't know how to read them :-)

i wasnt going to post a comment on this as i know it'l get ripped apart but im just amazed at how many people are defending a dog over a young child.....as a mother of 2 children and 2 dogs in my honest heartfelt opinion if 1 of my dogs attacked my child it would be out of my door so fast it wouldnt have time to feel sorry for itself

i seriously would not care if it was pts.....i would not risk another incident and it would of lost all my trust and no doubt seriously affect the child

please dont get me wrong...my kids are in full time education so i actually spend more time with my dogs !! my dogs sleep in my garage which was converted to a utilty and storage and theres a stable door seperatin that room from the kitchen then a stairgate from hall to kitchen, my kids adore my dogs but there is rules in place because like many have said the slightest thing can set a dog off and sometimes we just cant see the warning signs, i am sorry if this seems harsh to some but we all cope differently and thats how id feel

"I meant, provoked by the child. "

Exactly, a child cannot tell what these signs are, some adults find it hard enough, hence the reason we have a strict policy in place of no children or inexperienced people alone with our dogs.  It makes sense really.

I can sympathise with the original poster in this matter, we have a dog staying with us at the moment that has a court case pending, he is a beautifull example of an Irish Staff / PB type dog, his crime was owners who would just let him out to roam rather than take him for a walk or they would let a 12 year old girl take him for walks, now this lad is a big muscular example and if he wants to run he will, so on one of his trips to the park on his own he met a lady with a small yappy dog that he wanted to play with but because of the social stigma concerning his type she picked up her dog causing it to bark and yap and starts screaming and shouting at (fred shall we call him) who thinks its time to play, jumps up scratches her and her dog and knocks her over.

Hence dog is lifted for Dangerous Dog attack.

> allaboutme_79 i wasnt going to post a comment on this as i know it'l get ripped apart

Thats exactly what I meant, its sad that people should feel that way about posting:-(

> i would not risk another incident and it would of lost all my trust and no doubt seriously affect the child
>

Thats the main problem for me also, I couldn't live with a dog I couldn't trust. Although I am not saying I would have it pts (depends on what had actually happened)

thats why i wrote attacked....when my youngest was small i had a british bulldog (who lived to 13 and was the most chilled out dog i'd ever come across !!) if my son pestered him he would snap his teeth together...not in a nasty way but just letting us know that he was too tired to play sort of thing, i trusted him completly with my son and i knew when he didnt want to play and when he did

my point is a dog snapping or growling is the only way a dog can comunicate with us sometimes and that i understand...its just the lunging and sinking teeth into a child that i wouldnt tolerate because it could be someone elses child next and their mother wont be as emotional towards your dog

Hi,

I have read all the new posts with interest, although some of you have made unfair comments and judgements about me and my family, many of the points have been interesting.  I would like to make a few points myself.

I decided to post on this site to look for other options instead of pts.  I will admit that if the decision had been left up to me then it would have been done straight away but unfortunately my husband has a very special bond with Tyler and although he is not putting the dog before the children, as some may suggest, he is having a very difficult time.

We are not a council estate family with a staffie as a status symbol.  We are in our mid 30's, my husband works long hours, we own our own house and my children attend school.

Although Tyler is my first dog, my husband has a very good knowledge of dogs.  He has been around dogs all of his life and Tyler did go to dog behaviour classes as a pup.  We do have a lot of people around the house and Tyler loves the extra fuss he gets.

Before the incident the children and the dog were never left alone.  It would never have made any difference what type of dog we owned, the breed makes no difference, especially with small children.  Tyler does get a lot of attention, probably more than a dog who is left alone all day while the owners are at work.

Tyler is always walked on the lead until we get to a field that we know of which usually has no other people or dogs around and he always returns when whistled.

Some of the posts on this site have made a lot of sense and I have spoken to my husband who now feels that we can explore the behavourist option first to see if anything can be done.

Louise