Hi,

Surfing the web looking for advice and found this site.  Would like some help if anyone can.  We have a 6 year old male Irish Staffordshire Bull Terrier who was owned by my husband from a puppy.  At that time it was just the 2 of them until me and my 2 year old daughter came along 4 & half years ago.  Everything was fine, dog and daughter got on great and dog and my cat even got along when we moved in together.  Had a baby boy who is now 3 and they got on fine together.  The dog has always slept in a separate room at night and due to the fact that he is quite big, has never been left alone with the children, incase of knocking them over and getting hurt.  I did not allow him to come into the main part of the house if the children were there and my husband was not, purely because he completely ignores any commands I give him.  He was only allowed in if my husband was there at the time or I was alone.  Anyway, 4 weeks ago, whilst my son, husband and dog were in the kitchen together, the dog went for my son.  There was a nasty growl which I haven't heard before and I think it was due to my husbands quick reaction that he didn't get a good grip.  We took my son to hospital and luckily the dog's teeth hadn't broken all the way through my son's cheek so not as serious as it looked but he has a nasty red scar down his face.  Since then the dog has had no contact with the children.  In my opinion I think the dog should have been put to sleep but unfortunately my husband is in turmoil.  He wants to see if he can get the dog re-homed as he has never shown any signs of agression before or since the incident.  Sorry for going on but could anyone please advise?  Thanks, Louise x

If it were any other breed I may agree that a behaviourist and a home without children could work. However, in my experience most 'irish staffs' are actually pit bulls anyway which are illegal now...well apart from the odd very old, neutered ones. I would have him put to sleep.

Oh gosh Louise, I'm so sorry to hear this.

I really do agree with Tigger though, this dog has attacked your child, and in my opinion it would be a very bad idea to rehome him when his history is like this. I really feel that the right thing to do is to have the dog put to sleep. I'm sorry.

Dawn R.

I agree that this dog should be PTS but NOT BECAUSE OF THE BREED!!  ANY dog that attacks a child should be PTS. 

As I have said before I do not think we should pass this sort of problem to someone else. If we do and the worst happened we would never live with the guilt. Your husband who has had him from a pup can't deal with him and I don't think a trainer will, it's possible, but where does the dog live in the mean time.

It is totally unfair to expect rescue homes to give the space, time and money dealing with dogs that have proved themselves untrustworthy when there are so many perfectly nice and innocent dogs waiting for that chance to be helped to a new home,

In a perfect world we would be able to take dogs who were untrained or required corrective training deal with the problem and then rehome. However a dog that will bite or attempt to bite a child is another matter and I have to agree it should be PTS for everyone's safety and it may be better for the dog than being shut in a kennel for the rest of it's live because no one can trust him.

I do not think ISBT are Pit Bulls although they are of type, they are in most cases cross breeds or mongrels that have been bred to fill the gap left by pit bulls.

Have there really been no other signs Louise, out of the whole 6 years of his life this is the one and only attack.

I honestly could not keep a dog I do not trust, but this is a strange one, normally there are other signs, not just aged 6 biting a child. I think before judgment is passed, is there any other history, you have done all the right things, re: dog and child safety.

Can you go through exactly what happened, was the dog startled, is he aggressive outside the house, has he ever tried to bite, or shown aggressive tendancies to anyone before, has he been vet checked, it is just a strange one for me, can you throw anymore light on what happened prior to the bite and any other behaviour issues. :-)

To be honest I would have him PTS. I can understand your hubby being in two minds but for the sake of your children and others (even if he was rehomed to a childless home, what about those on the street/visiting kids/if he escaped?).

Even if there was no previous (obvious) signs of agression, there is obviously some underlying trigger to his behaviour.

At the end of the day, a dog that bites is a dog that bites. Could he ever be trusted again? Are you or your husband willing to take that risk?

Having a dog PTS is one of the most caring things that can be done for a dog sometimes.
If you rehome him he may be used for fighting,he could be used for guard work and left alone for hours on end
he could get an owner that thinks he can beat the nastiness out of your dog,he may be passed from one owner to another
or just be unwanted.
Sadly the breed he is goes against him,if he were mine I would have him PTS and let him have a dignified end and you know he is resting peacefully.

Forgot to say before taking the final step have a vet check him over to make sure there is not some cause for his unpredictable behaviour, that said the girl did not touch him, he decided to take the child out and that can't be risked again.

What a sad and difficult position you are in, I think if it were my child the dog would be put to sleep, I dont think that I could live with forever worrying about the dog getting to my children, and it does sound as though you have always been wary of him as you say he isnt allowed in the room if your husband isnt there
I do remember once though reading about a dog once who attacked a child, the dog was put to sleep and only afterwards did the vet find a pencil lodged in the dogs ear, I'm not saying that your child hurt the dog at all, but wonder if anything happened for the dog to attack.

I agree with others i think pts is the safest option, must be a awful decision to make :( .

Best wishes
Hayley

I totally disagree that Any dog who Attacks a Child should be PTS!!!

Not at all, dogs have only a couple of ways of defending themselves growl or bite! Children run , scream ,shreik ,poke ,interfere, tease and generally are a damn pain in the backside around dogs unless the parent has trained them well, and children will get bitten if the dog is pushed regardless of what breed!
To say every dog that bites should be destroyed is outrageous!

We dont know the full circumstances of the OP incident, was this child teasing this dog? Is this dog poorly and has some sort of medical condition which hasnt been noticed as he isnt allowed to mix with the family ?
From the OP post it sounds like she was never keen on the dog and the dog has had his nose pushed out since she and her children arrived. 

I think this dog needs to be checked over at the vets then a decision be made whether or not to keep him, if he has always been ok before and is alright in other aspects he may be rehomable, to an experienced dog owner with no children and get the attention he is probably craving.

Im sorry but in this case I dont think his breed has anything to do with it, if this dog were a labrador would you all be suggesting euthanasia?

I think if you take the opinion if a dog bites your precious kid (and I mean a bite not a savage attack) you shouldnt have a dog .

I remember when I was a child I got bitten by the family dogs on a couple of occasions both were my fault and my mother did not tell the dog off, I got a good smack!!
I also remember doing a paperround and got chased and bitten about the ankles from a few dogs guarding their own territory, I was scared and upset but even as a child would have been horrifield if the response was to destroy the dog!

I just think in this day and age people are far too sensitive, especially over their children

You can probably tell from my post I dont have any children, would rather have a pet rat if pushed, but will stick with my loyal companions - My Dogs!

Is this dog poorly and has some sort of medical condition which hasnt been noticed as he isnt allowed to mix with the family ?


This is my only worry, that perhaps the dog has maybe pain somewhere, mouth, ear, limbs, which is why I was wishing to know any prior history, dogs can act completely out of character if in pain and never act that way again, it just needs to be ruled out.

If the dog has ever shown aggressive tendencies previous then pts is the only answer, but at 6 years of age if no other probs it just makes me wonder if there is an underlying reason for this.

I said "attack" not "bite".  There's a very big difference!!  IF a dog attacks unprovoked, then it SHOULD BE PTS!  Please don't take my post out of context!  Of course if a child is being nasty to a dog and it gets bitten, then it's the childs fault!

well reading the OP Post this dog didnt attack, he didnt even bite the child the teeth hadnt even punctured the skin!  More like a warning snap by the sounds of it.

Amazing I work for the police and the number of people reporting dog bites or dog attacks when it will just be the dog has leapt up excitedly on someone or been playing and caught the persons hand with its teeth. And they ring the Police!!!   Obviously the police do not get involved

The person had posted that the dogs tooth hadn't gone all the way through the child's cheek...I took this as meaning he had punctured the skin but didn't make a clean hole through the cheek???  I would say this is a bite.

It is uncertain how well the dog is socialised with the children as by the sounds of it he doesn't come into the house with them alot...so like people have said if he has anything medically wrong with him the child could have possibly made him react in this way.

Without seeing the incident or result of it, it really is difficult to suggest what to do.  I would however get him to the vets for a good examination to rule out any medical problems first.  Are there any GOOD behaviourists in your area that will come to your house to give advice and help? 

Like other people have said, it is unusual for a dog to bite with absolutely no previous indicators he is not sound.

I do not think ISBT are Pit Bulls although they are of type, they are in most cases cross breeds or mongrels that have been bred to fill the gap left by pit bulls.

DEFRA officially says in their leaflet that they consider it to be another name for PitBull.

Gosh, its a tricky situation.  I can't really add to what has already been said in terms of advice, but for what its worth, I think there should be mileage in having the dog rehomed somewhere where there will be no children.  Some posters are correct when they comment that no rescue home should have the responsibility of rehoming a dog who has proven untrustworthy around children - so how about rehoming the dog yourselves, to someone you know?

I say this because we have had a similar experience.  Our friends rescued a border collie - who was known to be unpredictable around children - about 7 years ago.  They had a baby nearly 3 years ago (personally I think they should have rehomed the dog then) and did all the right things in preparing the dog for the baby's arrival.  They always kept dog and child apart, and to his credit the dog kept himself to himself, choosing to make a sharp exit if the child ever got too close.  Sadly, one day the inevitable happened, and at 14 months old the baby received a very nasty bite to her temple - she need a few staples, and her eye was badly swollen.

Over a year later, they are still trying to keep the dog and the child apart.  The husband won't hear of the dog being rehomed, and it is a source of continuous strife and disagreement between them.  The dog now leads a horrible life, trapped in a tiny run in the back garden all day and rarely walked properly (the wife has passed all care of the dog over to the husband, as he wants him to stay so badly depsite the risk of their child being injured).  If they do take him out in the car he has to stay in a crate in the boot of the car where he can't see out. 

Myself and my husband offered to take him in, but my stepchildren have also been grazed by the dog (when they wouldn't leave him alone despite stern warnings not to go near him when he was confined), therefore their mum is unhappy about the dog being in our care.

There is a local agility trainer who would take the dog in a flash, but despite the fact that the dog has a horrible life and the husband barely notices his existence, the husband won't consider letting him go because he is "so attached to him".  Pah, I could just slap the stupid selfish inconsiderate man, friend or no friend.

So, should this dog have been destroyed the moment he bit the child the first time?  Possibly.  Was it entirely his fault, did he bite without provocation?  No he didn't - the baby crossed his line of vision as he was bending to take a scrap of food thrown for him.  It was bad timing, yes, but he did not savagely attack the child without provocation.  It was a single and very unfortunate snap.

Therefore to my mind, he should be rehomed somewhere with no children, where he will be regularly exercised and stimulated, and rehomed directly without recourse to a rescue centre.  He is a good and obedient dog, very much disturbed by his experiences of life, and should be muzzled in public - but I don't think he deserves to die.

Therefore I can't help but feel the same about this Irish staffy.  Don't condemn him just yet.  Can you think of anyone who would be willing to take him in, where he could not be a danger to children in confined spaces?

S x

Totally agree with you susie!  Dog s dont understand and children can be very in your face and scary.

Sounds like that dog would have a great life with the agility trainer or anyone else without children, he didnt deserve to be pts and neither does this dog of the OP by the sound of it.
Sounds like he needs a good home with a one to one relationship where he can get some proper attention and training 

Kim

> DEFRA officially says in their leaflet that they consider it to be another name for PitBull

Yes, may be, we are all aware of their expertise in dog breeds. Some ISTB may be pure bred Pit Bulls but most are not, you only have to look at the photos everywhere on the internet to see that most are poor examples of a canine, with light bone, over long, long bones and dreadful angulation, they I think you will agree are cross breeds and mongrels, most very bad examples of the breeders skills. Of type they may be but Pit Bulls they are not, however if DEFRA say they are then all ISTBs are illegal and should be destroyed anyway.

Can you give me a link to the leaflet please.

Hi Louise,

I am really sorry to hear of your predicament.

I agree with what a few other people have said and I would definitely have your dog checked by a vet to see if there is an underlying health problem.

Was your son eating or holding anything at the time that captured the dogs interest and he had tried to jump at it, missing and thus the resulting bite?

I read up on the temperament of the irish staff after reading this post and the information said that they need lots of exercise and can get bored very easily but they are very loving dogs and good around children.

Is it possible that the dog has been feeling pushed out and a bit lonely having to be shut away in another room when your husband is not there and the children are around. Perhaps he has started to feel a bit of jealousy towards the children as he is associating whenever the children are there he has to go in another room and has become a bit depressed at not having  as much attention. If he is not taken for walks frequently he may have a lot of pent up energy.

If it were myself I would have him vet checked and also have a behaviouralist check him out. I think having him put to sleep would be a last resort in my honest opinion. Obviously there would be a concern at having him rehomed around children, however he could possibly be rehomed where there are no children now or in the future with a person experienced in the breed.

Maybe it would be an idea to speak to a few staff rescues for their opinion and what they would recommend you do. Obviously these people would be experienced in this particular breed and could offer to assess him. I dont know, but it may be worth a try.

Here is a link that I found for you which gives information on several staff rescues:

http://www.sbtfun.com/Links1.html#anchor_13789

I hope that my post will help. Its a terrible decision you are faced with and I would hate to be in your position.

Kind regards

Claire

>Can you give me a link to the leaflet please.

Defra leaflet

Can you give me a link to the leaflet please.

http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/welfare/domestic/ddogsleaflet.pdf

My point was caution must be taken as technically speaking, officials COULD say it would be illegal to rehome this dog.

> My point was caution must be taken as technically speaking, officials COULD say it would be illegal to rehome this dog.

I agree with you if DEFRA have declared that dogs who are known as ISBT are as far as they are concerened Pit Bull then they would not be taken into rescue. Call it a Staffie cross and that no doubt would be ok.

Thanks for your link will go and read.

Thank you all for taking the time to reply to my problem.  I have read all the posts with interest and would like to clarify some details.

The dog, better known as Tyler, has more attention now than when it was just him and my husband.  The OH has always worked 12 hour day and night shifts and so Tyler was left alone for long periods during the day and night from being a puppy.

I admit that before Tyler I had never had much contact with dogs so a little wary.  My OH has had dogs all of his life and he does have complete control over Tyler.  Someone once told me that a dog only has one owner.  I don't know if that is true but it is in this house.

Tyler's bed is in the utility room which has it's own back door and a dog flap.  A part of the garden has been fenced off so that he has his own area which means the children can play without worrying whether it's clean out there.  Because we have a cat, we have what used to be a cat flap in the door between the utility room and the kitchen, which Tyler spends his time looking through and my son would feed him any scraps.  At Christmas he lay there telling Tyler what santa had brought him!

My daughter is at school and my son at pre school.  During the morning Tyler is with me and doesn't go back to his bed until lunchtime.  If my OH was on nights then Tyler would be with us during the afternoon until he left for work and then he would come out as soon as the children had gone to bed to be with me.  The children would play with him and he never has shown any aggression before the incident.  He is a much loved pet.  The main reason for not allowing the children to be with him alone was because there had been previous incidents of being knocked over and hurt in the past.  Tyler is quite a big dog, he is as high as a 3 year old.  I don't know whether it is relevant but we do have pedigree papers that include parents, grandparents, great grandparents etc.

At the time of the incident my son was putting rubbish into the kitchen bin which contained Chinese takeaway cartons and food from the night before.  My husband shot around at the time and Tyler ran off straight to his bed immediately so I believe he knew what he had done was wrong.

We contacted our vet who made the point that if he was castrated it may help but I understand it can take months for the effects to show and Tyler isn't a handful, he is pretty laid back.

Louise

> purely because he completely ignores any commands I give him

this would have concerned me right off- any dog in a household should be obedient to every member of that household. if he thinks he can get away with being disobedient to you he'll certainly feel that way towards your kids.

for me attacking a child i definate potential for pts, but i would suggest seeking out the help of a really good behaviourist first and get their opinion. if his misbehaviour has been tolerated then of course it was going to increase, i'd want ot see if this could be delt with before the dog was destroyed. Training the dog is your responsibility and if you;ve let his behaviour get out of hand i'd suggest you do your best to resolve it before killing him.

i'd also definately suggest a vet check, there could be a health issue that helped trigger it.

Get shot.  Irish staff/staff cross breed all one and the same in my opinion.  One iota of aggression toward a human shown for no apparent reason - I'd have no qualms in putting either of my two to sleep.  I've known them both for 6 and 2 years, but who knows what external situations might make them change?  I can tell you now if they were in pain, I'm 99% sure that they wouldn't turn on or harm a human - BUT, but if they did there would be no excuses as far as I'm concerned... this breed is supposed to be brave, fearless, but also TOTALLY RELIABLE...
Could it be the dog was after the food and caught your son by mistake whilst trying to steal the food?

It concerns me hugely that this entire powerful mature ISBT dog ignores you completely, taking notice only of your husband. But despite that fact he went to attack your child unprovoked from your full and frank statement WITH your OH being present. A bite that required a hospital visit is a bite.

You keep everything well apart in that knowledge, but despite that too, he managed to attack that little child. You now cannot intergrate them for the childrens safety, and he takes no notice of you at all.

Your children are tiny, and he is a power house. You cannot keep them apart indefinately. It will only take one lapse moment or children visiting.

Neither can you pass the problem on for another family to deal with. Children are everywhere and deserve not to be at risk.

Responsible dog ownership can be heartbreaking but Staffie Rescue may give you some advice. We all know they are bursting at the seams.

I wish you luck in making your decision. I know what I would have to do.    

You make it sound as if we have an unruly dog constantly causing mayhem.  Tyler doesn't get on the sofa, doesn't go upstairs, doesn't chew things, plays nicely with the cat etc.  Most of the time he will want to be on your knee for a cuddle or at your feet.  He will sit, stay, lay down etc but if I tell him to get to his bed then he lays down and rolls over.  If the OH tells him he is straight there with his tail between his legs.  I have posted a picture and would be grateful if you would tell me if he is pit bull or not.  As you can see, he is quite big compared to a normal staff so impossible for me to lift or move and he can take your legs from under you.  His general behaviour is not out of hand apart from the incident a month ago.

that was not what i intended to suggest louise, but speaking as a large bull breed owner myself we have always expected our dogs to be obedient to everyone in the house. saying that being naughty is different from being disobedient- acting up when being sent to bed (like a kid really) is pretty normal, but when you insist they should go. just the way you said it before it sounded like you could not get anything out of him, though i must say running to bed with tail between legs does not sound like a comfortable response :(

despite his size there are ways for you and the kids to be comfortable around him, i'll bet my lad is far bigger and i grew up with my breed from being born, as has my nephew. when trained to respond to you properly size is not an issue

you might be worth investing in some time with a behaviourist who may be able to help with the aggresion (i do hope so), and they should be able to help with training both you and the dog to have a better relationship so you (and through the training the kids) are totally in control. of course this depends on if you choose to pts or not (given the circs i can defo understand if you chose that route)

from the pic i'm not sure. pits were made illegal when i was pretty young so never seen one in the flesh, the pic looks kind of similar to pics i've seen of them but i must say my first thought was american bulldog cross. anyone else agree?

louise, there are so many lines of staffs going about that it is hard to tell.  He looks pretty similar to my staff who is not Irish/pit or any other type of terrier.  To get a better look I enlarged your picture and he looks like a chunky well boned staff to me.  the differences can be seen in the show ring where some are really big with extremely wide mouths, others are wee with squishy piggy faces, some look really mean and others have more gentle faces.  Like most breeds different affixes breed for different features (all within the breed standard of course!)

Have you tried making tyler reliant on you so he will listen?  this could include things like feeding him, walking him, opening the dog flap if it is locked at night.  Then he might start to see you as useful.

My staffy is also extremely food orientated and can be a bit rude with it.  My neighbours son gave her a scotch egg recently and she took his whole hand in her mouth as well as the egg and was not for letting go - incase she had to give up the prize! She is very gentle with children so didn't hurt him but she could have quite easily misjudged the size and had hold of his hand tightly.

My own opinion on your situation is that if you and the children are scared of the dog it is not a healthy situation to be living in.

At the time of the incident my son was putting rubbish into the kitchen bin which contained Chinese takeaway cartons and food from the night before.

Now this makes more sense to me, I like to understand why a dog bites.

Does your dog food guard at all?  Has he bared teeth or growled where food is concerned previously?

It looks to me as though he smelt the food in the bin, and warned your child off, you say previously that he gave a nasty growl before he bit your child, luckily your husband had a chance to act due to the warning but, does he get the chance to bin raid?

His general behaviour is not out of hand apart from the incident a month ago.


This happened a month ago??????   

I'm shocked that no decision on this has been made sooner. Is it that you also need to understand why it happened? I think IMO after this last statement that the attack may have been food orientated, but that does mean your children may not be safe when food is around, and it also means that it could happen again. Sorry to sound harsh, but I can not believe that after a month you have not at least called in a behaviourist and are taking so long to decide what to do, I know you mentioned in your first post that you wanted him pts, but in your later posts you are really defending him, which makes me feel you don't really fear him, but want help instead.

Do you think this is food orientated if you can think back? I think the dog is staying as a month after he is still here, the only advice I can give is just keep your dog seperated at all times now, you must never, ever trust him again, treat him like a loaded gun, your children have fed him in the past, so he sounds to have been raised well around them, perhaps he just fancied the smell of what was in the bin, but no dog should have any excuse to bite.

Your braver than I, I wouldn't keep him in this inst, too many human mistakes could bring the two together again, especially if it was food induced.

Just be very careful.

Thank you for your comments.  I am the one who feeds Tyler and the only way I can get him to bed at night is by opening the fridge door, which incidently, is in the utility room.  I am not afraid of him and neither are the children.  My son says he misses Tyler.  My daughter sees her dad every other weekend and he has a Rottie.  I don't walk him as it is usually him taking me.  When the 4 of us take him out he has to be in the lead or he panics, so it can be a bit of a struggle with him being so strong.  Most of the time the OH takes him.  What I wanted were honest opinions from outsiders and I appreciate all the comments that have been made, all varied and all taken on board, but please be reminded that it was just him and the OH for almost 2 years.  The more I read then the more I feel that the incident was possibly over food. My son does have to contend with an awful dog that his nan has (a collie cross) who just won't leave him alone but he just pushes her away and I think it is possible, although no-one saw it, that he did the same with Tyler but caught him in the eye or something.  Tyler has been rammed by all sorts of toys over the past couple of years, and last summer was chased round the garden with water pistols and toy bow and arrows.  He either let it happen or found a cosy corner out of the way.  He is food orientated but the only other time I have heard him moan is if he is happily chewing a bone and someone comes too close.  He even sits and lets the cat eat his food and drink his water! I am still unsure as to what to do and the OH is still in turmoil but if something should happen again then we would never forgive ourselves.  I have found the number of a local staffie rescue centre and will seek their opinion.

Tyler doesn't bin raid, the bin is in a large cupboard.  He doesn't guard food.  My son has filled his bowl with biscuits while Tyler is eating out of it.  My husband contacted the vet the day after the incident and had a lengthy conversation about all the options available.  Since then we have been in touch with CARA Animal Rescue (recommended by a friend) who were given the background and photographs.  They seemed confident but haven't got back to us as yet.  When the children were smaller Tyler would sit in the kitchen and clean the floor of dropped food but he never took anything.  He will beg but won't take it until he is offered, unless your back is turned. 

Louise,
Is there any chance of you affording to employ a Behavourist to look at him ????
If so There will be someone who can recommend where to go to find a good one :)
Good Luck
Lea :)

Lea,
Thank you for your advice, it is something I can look into.  Earlier I was more for pts but IF this is a one off and we could get someone to look at him then it would be a shame to lose what has been a lovely dog for over 6 years.  Unfortunately, I wouldn't know where to find a good one.
Louise

Where abouts in the country are you???
Dont just pick on out of the papers as you can say your a behaviourist and have Noooo qulifications.
If you let us know where you are someone will either be able to recommend someone or give you the website to try.
HTH
Lea :)

it sounds to me as if your boy has leadership issues, of course this is just based on your posts which may have been misunderstood. you mentioned that he is not obedient to you, you cant walk him for pulling, that he insists on being ahead when being walked etc. all these are indicators to me that he thinks he is the boss, which is not a safe situation for you and your family, and is a distressing condition for the dog to be in. dogs don't like being the boss as they get freaked by the responsibility.

given that you are unsure as to whether he was provoked or not (not that i am justifying the reaction!) i would be hesitant to about whats happening. he does not sound like a nasty dog just like a very confused one who needs to learn his place. i must emphasise this needs to be done gently! i don't know how your OH trained him previously but i must say the tail between the legs reaction you mentioned earlier is not what your aiming for. a good training class or behaviorist will be able to help with this and hopefully you can learn to trust your dog again and enjoy him more. walking a well behaved dog is a joy, having them do as you ask is wonderful, and i imagine you ebing able to trust him again would be quite a relief

i would say that i think YOU personally need to spend more time training with him as it seems he doesn't understand where he ranks in comparison to you. if he knows your the boss of him and you enforse that the kids are boss to it might really help the situation.

of course others may disagree

OMGoodness. This has made me so sad.

You can only get him to bed by opening the fridge door?
You can't walk him as he pulls you, and if he is not in the lead, he panics?
He was on his own with your OH for the first 2 years and left hours on his own for hours as a baby?
Your son has to contend with an 'awful' (your words) other dog. Why is it 'awful' I wonder, sorry, but I do?
Tyler is possessive over bones but still allowed them? And more importantly....
You allow your children to ram him with all sorts of toys in the last 2 years. Why?
You allow them to chase him round the garden with water pistols, and bows and arrows. And you say he let it happen or got out of the way.
Why did YOU let this happen? Why?

And you are wondering why this dog is all mixed up and finally snapped (near food)?

Please be sure to tell Staffie rescue ALL of this, for his sake, and you now you have been been refreshingly honest about all this lads life, maybe with a steady Staffie savvy home he has the chance of a good life, somehwere quiet and I take back my previous emails last sentence.

Louise, noone can tell you what to do without seeing the dogs behaviour first hand, and you being on here makes you want to help and keep this dog. So a behaviourist will be able to help youb understand the dogs behaviour and how to deal with him.
You have been open and honest with us all, so please dont be deshartened and seek a proffesional, that way you will have done al you can for him and hopefully All of you will be happier what ever the outcome :)
Good Luck
Lea :)

> I just think in this day and age people are far too sensitive, especially over their children
>
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Wow...this sentance has amazed me!

Our dog bit our eldest daughter who is 3 and a half years old a while ago, at the time I really panicked but after looking through what had happened (calmly) and taking him to the vets we discovered that it was in fact a bite because she had touched his paw and he was in pain. At the time I wondered if I would ever trust him again but he didn't cause any real injury and he was in pain. If I was in your situation I would get him checked over by a vet, then contact a behaviourist (perhaps your vet could recommend one?) then go from there.....but if you feel in your heart that you cannot trust him with your children then he has to go. You MUST NOT feel guilty in making this decision your childrens safety MUST come first every time!

Yes, I do have problems getting him to bed and he has a sausage or something when he comes, as a reward.  I admit I have caused the situation.  I don't deny it.  To him it is now the routine.

Tyler will only be walked by my OH.  He is not comfortable with anyone else.  I don't know why.

Tyler was not left on his own straight away.  He had time off when he got him and only worked 5 mins up the road so would come home on breaks.  He was not mistreated in anyway and slept in the OH's bed for a long time.  My sister in law lived close by and Tyler still has a special relationship with her.  He was eventually left alone all day but Tyler was not left shut in a room at any time.

My mother in laws dog has never been trained. She jumps, snatches food and is a general pain in the backside when we go round.

Our dog is not abused.  I'm sorry if it came across that way.  Small boys do not play gently with their toys and small boys who love cars, diggers and trains have a tendancy to try and push them as fast as they can into mums, dads, sisters and even dogs. Nothing malicious and no intent to cause pain.  Son was explained why he mustn't do it and hasn't since last year.  I was trying to give an example that our dog is quite placid.  Hot days last summer, children chasing mum, dad and each other with water pistols and thought it would be nice to cool Tyler down.  He enjoyed it for a while and then got out of the way.  I can't see anything wrong with that.  Everyone including our dog were having FUN.  This was another example of how he has never retaliated towards the children. 

I am a little confused.  I came onto this site for advice as we are unsure of the best course of action and so far I have been accused of owning a pit bull.  I have been accused of animal abuse.  I have been accused of not knowing how to train him properly.  We have a dog who is a very important part of this family and we do not want to give up lightly.  If anything, he has been spoilt.  If a smaller dog had nipped a child would you have been so harsh.

I was actually going to say once you reposted that your set up sounds quite good, not ideal in the fact that Tyler doesn't do alot of what you ask of him but that can be worked on.  I find many dogs tend to only really do what is asked of them by the person who brings them up as such.  By this I don't mean dogs should get away with not doing what another owner asks but 'playing up' as such is something that you can look to improve on.

Could there have possibly been a clash of heads between Tyler and your son?  If Tyler was in the bin and your son came up to him quietly, could Tyler have turned quickly and caught him???

I ask this because of an incident that happened many years ago with my mum's GSD...luckily my mum and aunty saw exactly what happened....at the age of 5 yrs and my cousin being 3 I was gently resting against our GSD while he was laying down, after I moved out of the way my cousin did the same thing but as he lifted his head so did the dog...tooth came in contact with 3 yr olds cheek and cut it....my mum said if she hadn't personally seen exactly what happened he would have probably been pts as it looked like a bite (he still has a tiny scar now)...however it was a pure accident.

Look on www.ukrcb.org for behaviourists in your area, they may be able to give you good advice.  I would also start doing some one to one training with you and Tyler.  Use tasty treats and get him doing basic commands for you eg sit, stand, down.  Put him on a lead and do some heelwork in your garden along with recalls.  Make him work for his food, hopefully this will form a better bond with you and he will start listening to your commands more.

Lea

Thank you.  I am in Leicester.  I think that is a great piece of advice, something that I hadn't thought of previously.  It is much appreciated.

Louise

It did sadden me because as in emails they are expressionless and can be misconstrude. I think it came across wrong.

You do need a dammed good behaviourist and a good trainer, one you like and respect to help you. Then they can see the whole picture first hand.

Good luck

(your collie cross maybe just understimulated and they could help with that one too!)

> If a smaller dog had nipped a child would you have been so harsh

i absolutely assure you YES. my dogs are bigger than yours, as are man many memebrs of the forum and there is another thread on the site at the mo where most people are deploring the way small dogs get away with snipping, so i promise the comments are not based on the breed.

> have been accused of owning a pit bull

the ISBT is often a code name for a pit or a pit type breed. this is not reflection on you if you didn;t realise and it was only mentioned because there might have been problems with you trying to rehome, it was not a critisism. to be honest i think the majority of the forum would scrap the pit ban as we (for the most part) believe in "deed not breed"- no breed is essentially dangerous.

please don't be put off by certain comments, it's just that from what your describing there seem to be reasons for your dogs behaviour.

several of us have tried to offer constructive advice, and i think your right, tyler has been spoiled but not just with sausages, with getting away with certain behaviours. you obviously want to sort this out and clearly don;t want to pts or you would have done it by now. genuinely the behaviourist seems the best bet, as Lea said earlier if you let us know your approx location someone might be able to reccomend someone. failing that your vet might know a good one.

Thank you Staff.

Husband was at the sink with back to both of them at the time so we can't be sure what actually happend.  My son had a ring of marks on his cheek and 2 puncture wounds so as far as I can see Tyler didn't get a grip.  I'm sure if he wanted to he could have ripped the cheek off completely.  I'm not defending the dog, but I am not defending my son either and no-one can be sure what actually happened.  If it was a food issue or jealousy and can be nipped in the bud then that is better than losing a fantastic pet.

I am grateful for your opinion and advice.

I have PM'd someone who will know where to find a GOOD behaviourist Louise, hopefully she will be along soon to let you know and then you can get someone along who is Qualified to see the dog and talk to you first hand and help you out :)
Lea :)

the main question is did the child do anything at all to the dog? not saying he did, but its quite unfortunate that a dog cant speak or hit out if somethings up, they have to bite, in my experience which aint extremely great, i found that if the child has done something in the short past to the dog he may have seen an action that he thought was going to be a threat towards him, also do you know the history of the dogs parents, as most people have said irish= pit, sorry if i havent been much help, its just a theory, hope you get sorted tho,

sami

Hi Sami,

As mentioned before we don't know exactly what happened.  They have spent just over 3 years together and to be honest their relationship had grown stronger.

Tyler was bought before I had met my hubby so I don't know the full details but after reading the posts on here I am now wondering whether the pedigree certificate I have in front of me is true.  I don't know a great deal about pedigree breeds as, dare I say it, before Tyler I was a cat lover, and still am (I can hear you !!).  I posted a picture as I thought you may be able to tell from that and the pedigree certificate goes back to the G G G Grand-parents.  The Parents are Royal Charm and Fianna Ruby.  I believe hubby saw them.