... so inadiquate at doggy language. This isn't going to be a rant because a while ago I decided I would try and always see the best in every thing rather than the worse so this is purely a question.

For example I was on my walk to day with my dog who dislikes other dogs. She has been doing brilliantly recently and we are really getting somewhere finally. I saw two dogs who looked boisterous and headed straight for Ziggi so I stepped infront and walked her away hoping they would give up.

Well they didn't - at this point I would usually really relax the lead and calmly praise Zig and try and walk past. Unfortunately this time I could see that Ziggi was really fixated on them so I took her by the collar instead as I knew she would react so wanted more control over her.

Usually dogs stop coming when they see her body language - starts to stiffen up and hackles go up (this part I can understand some dogs missing), then she goes on to a low growl and lips showing teeth (again there is a possibility that dogs may miss this behaviour) but when she is in full blown lunging and snapping mode how can dogs just ignore it and keep bombing along towards her???

I am just puzzled as to why some dogs are so sensitive to body language and others so totally clueless. Is it all the socialisation that goes on when puppies and they become to think all dogs are nice or are some breeds just more like this. (I have nothing against rotties but they seem to be the most common ones to be like this - as it was today)

Again not a rant just purely puzzled
Thanks

I am no expert but I think some of it depends on the age of the dog as to whether it is very good at reading other dogs signals.

It is only fairly recently that our 2 year old GR has become more adept at reading the signals other dogs give out. Prior to that he would wag his tail, play bow and generally act the loon whenever he saw another dog. If we met another dog that was on lead I would always put him back on lead and only let him off if it was ok with the other dog owner but, whatever the reaction from the other dog even if it was obvious to me that it was not so friendly or totally disinterested, Harley wanted to play with them all.

Now he is that bit older (chronologically if not mentally :D ) he ignores other dogs that are not interested after his initial bow and turns his head away from dogs that show even the slightest form of hesitancy or aggression.

We had him from 10 weeks old so the start of his socialisation was a bit delayed but once he came to us from the rescue he had huge amounts of socialisation.

He is still very ready to meet and play with other dogs but is now better able to read another dog's approach and respond accordingly. Perhaps it is just his age now or maybe he has learnt by experience.

I agree age is a major factor the young don't necessarily know how to read body language, which is why they should be on lead when around other dogs unknown to them until they do.

I also think that many dogs can tell the difference between fear aggression and real dog hate, 'I want to kill you' aggression and tend to still come up to dogs baring teeth etc with fear aggression.

Also the major factor in this inst of being more than one dog with a little one up man ship two are much more likely to approach. :-)

Dogs can't learn canine body language without being taught - and only contact with other dogs can do that. Their mum and littermates get them started, and after that it's down to the dogs they meet. If they only ever meet friendly, playful dogs they assume that all dogs will be friendly and playful and go bouncing up. That's when they need to meet some strict-but-not-nasty dogs to put them back in their place and teach them to mind their manners. If they've never experienced the result of ignoring 'go-away' signals from a dog they'll have no reason to understand what it means.

I think there are some dogs that are genuinely clueless - or at least, not good at interpeting body language.  Remy's one of them - he has real trouble distinguishing between rough play and a dog telling him to F off.  He gets told off quite a bit by Opi and River because he pushes them too far, and if he tries to play with a dog he's just met and they try to tell him where to go he plays even more.

Part of it may be him trying to ease the tension with play, but it usually irritates the other dog more - but he doesn't seem to get that.

Sadly that means he's now starting to get a bit more grumpy himself, having been told off quite a lot, so I'm going to start taking steps to sort that. :rolleyes:

I will just add that he's probably the most socialised of all my dogs - I put in a LOT of work from day 1 with him to get him sociable with all dogs, remembering in the back of my mind that dobes are often less sociable than other breeds, particularly the boys.  He just seems to be a genuine nitwit :D but a very sociable one for the most part, with boys or girls.

That description fits my dog to a T JG. As a puppy, even if dogs were growling at him he'd be pulling on his lead to get to them wagging his tail the whole time. He missed a lot of socialisation between 8-12 months because of his torn ligament - he couldn't interact normally with other dogs. Getting pinned by a growling DDB taught him that those noises weren't invitation to play. By the age of 18 months he had very good doggy manners and never gets into any trouble now at 2 1/2 YO.

One of the puppies I sold, now two years old, can't read doggy language at all and because of this is a hazard to have in the house. She visits once a week or so and comes charging in like a whirlwind, jumping all over the other dogs. Tchi (aka Mr Beastly) has very set ideas about what behaviour is appropriate and although he recognises her as one of his pack he constantly has to put her in her place. Yesterday we had been for a walk and were just putting the dogs back into the car, all 5 jumped in and turned round for their treat, MiniMeg (they named her after her Mum!) shoved in front of Tchi and then stood on his feet and tried to snatch the treat that was in my hand. Tchi had his lips all curled up and was glaring at her..the others all backed away but MM carried on :rolleyes: Tchi snapped at her and she backed off for a second but she just doesn't learn. I'm constantly on edge when she's over, worrying that he will actually bite her one time. She's an only dog and is absolutely adored by her family, she's very well behaved it's just the lack of doggy manners that drives me daft. She's been well socialised and doesn't act this way with dogs outside, just my lot for some reason???

Watching how our now 9-months old puppy (Jesse) grew up with our other dogs and how he learned doggie communication from them, I am not actually surprised at all that most dogs haven't got a clue how to communicate as most never have the chance to interact properly with well socialised dogs that know how to communicate! Just 10 minutes playing with another dog (if that) just isn't enough... And as someone else said, they also need dogs that put them in place and tell them what is and isn't acceptable. Us humans just can't hack it when it comes to teaching doggie language... how could we, we don't speak it either!

Jesse is absolutely fascinating to watch as his skills in doggie communication are superior! I rarely meet other dogs that are so proficient at it... And he learnt it from our own dogs, not from dogs he was playing with in the park as most of them show a serious lack of communication skills!

Vera

Threats and warnings only work if you understand that ignoring them will result in unpleasantness of some sort. Until a dog's been on the receiving-end of a snap it won't realise what the 'stop-it-or-I'll-snap' body language actually means. So as well as friendly dogs to play with they also need to meet unboisterous but non-vicious dogs who don't want to be bounced, and will teach them the warnings. Then when they come across one that won't pull its punches (and they all do, eventually) they've been taught, in a safe way, what the warnings actually mean, and are far less likely to get injured.

Dogs which will gently but firmly put unruly pups in their place are to be sought out and cherished! :)

> Dogs which will gently but firmly put unruly pups in their place are to be sought out and cherished

LOL - Tara does just that - she pinned our friend's JR to the ground by it's neck when she got fed up with it jumping all over her :D :D BUT, our friend knows dogs and was quite happy when it happened. I usually keep Tara well away from other dogs because a lot of owners aren't so knowledgeable or understanding :(

Daisy

>they also need to meet unboisterous but non-vicious dogs who don't want to be bounced<

Since my dog is so soft and doesn't know how to growl-a-snap I took my bitch puppy to meet my friend's GSD when she was very young. He is very good at making it clear what acceptable behaviour is without going over the top. It was well worth it, she's been very good for a young gundog.