hi everyone just thought i would give yous an update on dels luxating patellas. been to specialist today and he says because dels legs seem "all over the place" and he is walking uncomfortably he would recommend getting the surgery done. ment to be going back in 3 weeks todays to get both his legs operating on, he says that after surgery dels legs will not get any worse.

Surely he won't do them both at the same time?  how will he walk for toileting etc ?

The surgery for patellas is the easy thing, it is the recovery that can be long and tricky, did your vet talk you through how to take care of him afterwards?
 

My Staffie had this operation done last September but I can only imagine they'd do one leg at a time.  My girl was bandaged from her hip to her toes and found it very difficult to move (at the start).

Its a long recovery process if you want to get the best out of the operation and i'm still wary when my one does her mad Staffie run around the garden.  I also think hydrotherapy afterwards is a good idea, I really wish I had the spare money at the time to take mine.

Yes it is a long recovery time, my last golden had this operation 3 times, it failed twice, and to save his leg he was put in an external fixator the 3rd time which did work - but from the first op to the day he had his inernal pins removed was 12 months.  A long time for a young bouncy dog to be restricted.

I think recovery is easier on smaller / shorter dogs though.

Yes, hydrotherapy is brilliant to help build their muscles.

its costing 2200 so i hope it works, he said because both legs need doing it would be best to do them both at the same time as otherwise he is just going to get one recovered then need the other done, he said he will be in there care for 2 day then we pick him up and he needs to have full rest for 2 weeks then for the next four weeks we can take him out but he must be kept on a lead.

I am so concerned about what your vet has said. 

My dog had this op 3 times, as I mentioned before, the first 2 failed.  Mainly because he wasn't kept still enough - the specialist at the time said as soon as the stitches are removed he can go for lead walks!!  Well this is what we did twice, and his knee collapsed.

For his 3rd op we knew if it didn't work he would have to have his leg amputated, and so we found a different consultant who was brilliant, his name is Chris May and he is at North West Surgeons. When Spangler had his 3rd op an external fixator was used, this prevented him from moving his leg and bending or straightening his knee and that was on for almost 12 weeks.  It takes that long to mend - honestly, I'm not  exagerating or trying to scare you.    We emptied a room of all furniture, so that he couldn't jump on anything and put a dog gate at the door and he was only able to do toilet walks in the garden with a belly belt.  We did this as he didn't like a crate - he'd never been in one and when we got this for him he panicked so we emptied the room.  We also stopped people coming to visit so that he never got the chance to jump and get excited.  It is that hard and long to mend.

When the fixator was removed, we then had to slowly build up walks from 1 x 5 min per day to 2 per day gradually increasing to half an hour.  A few weeks after we took him for hydrotherapy - which helped build his muscles which had wasted away.

Who is your specialist?  You can pm me with the details if you like, but I cannot see how he can operate on both your dogs legs at the same time and expect your dog to walk after 2 weeks!

Maybe if you have a small breed dog that is not very active it will work, but if he is a larger bouncier breed I think you really need a second opinion.

Apparently it is a very simple procedure, but it is the recovery that is the hard part - and believe me it is really hard.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do but please don't rush into it for your dogs sake.
Maria

 

The OPs dog is a young Springer I think.

I don't have any experience of luxating patellas (thank goodness) but I have to agree that both legs being operated on at once sounds rather extreme! I can't imagine how on earth the dog is going to be able to move around even in the most basic sense...?

yeah he is a springer a year an a half,  cannot think of the specialists name but the vets is called crofts, which apparantly is a very well known specialists, they do have a website if anyone wants to look it up. i think they have a few surgerys around the country but the one i go to is in blyth, northumberland.  im getting worried now, dont know what to do, he did not make the recovery seem that bad, i even mentioned taking a bit time of work and he said it was not necessary, and he even said i could leave him with mags who is only 6 months.

found the website off the specialist we go to its www.croftvets.co.uk

You need to ask lots of questions, and one of them would be how many young springer spaniels has he performed this op on, has he done both legs at the same time before etc

Spangler needed an op on his other patella but the vet wouldn't consider it until his first leg was mended completely.  Sadly he died before he could have his other leg done (nothing to do with the op) but we were not 100% sure we were going to put him through that again.

I'm also really surprised he says you can leave him with a young puppy - the puppy will be running around and I can't see that your boy will just sit there watching the pup.

Has he told you that he cannot climb onto furniture, he cannot use the stairs, he cannot jump up?  These are all the things he should have gone through.

Only you can decide what to do, but maybe ask him to refer you to someone else or at least get him to speak to Chris May at NWS as I know lots of vets do.

Spangler had his first op in April 2005 and I can't imagine the recovery has improved so much since then.

It isn't a procedure that is carried out very often on med - large breeds, this is why you cannot fine that much info on it.  And, I'm wondering if your vet performs this on small breeds and expects larger dogs to recover in the same way - as the first vet did with Spangler.

As I said, only you can decided, but for your boys sake please seek a second opinion.

 

well he just said the first two weeks are the only time he needs complete bed rest after that he would be fine to exercise slightly. i did think that when he said we could leave them with the puppt but he said it would be fine for them obviously knowing they will play. will end some emails out see what i can do.

We wanted a puppy as soon as Spangler was better, once his internal pins were removed and he was walking for 2 x half hours per day and he had his last check up with the vet, we asked the vet if it would be wise to have a puppy and he said it would be better to wait a few more months, as all the twisting and turning he would do could well cause problems with the knee.

So I'm really surprised your vet said your boy would be ok with the puppy - all the more reason for a 2nd opinion.  As you say it is going to cost quite a lot, better to get the best person to perform it.

Good luck with whatever you decide and I'll keep everything crossed for your boy.
Maria   

Its abit concerning from what you've said and i'd be tempted to get a second opinion.  My staffie had her op at my vets (I trust them 100%) and it cost £250'ish so alot less incomparison...however she is a small dog so that might be why.

She had complete cage rest for about 3 weeks if I remember rightly, possibly longer as she does like to jump up on furniture and is an excitable Staffie!  For a while after that she was confined to one room by herself if I was not in and she had such slow gradual excercise starting with 5 mins of very slow walking so she used all 4 legs.  There would have been no way she could have coped with both legs operated on at the same time.

It wouldn't hurt to get a second opinion to just put your mind at rest.

Lucy

ok thankyou will keep you all updated.

hi i am going to ring a specialist tommorrow to see what he says, but been speaking to a vet today and she says they charge 300 for the operation and the reason this man is charging 2 grand is  because he is apparantly the best in the country in doing these operations and is qualified to a very high standard, and she says that his prices reflect that, she says he is one of the only people in the country that do this operation this certain way which is alot better than the operation alot of other people do.

I don't think the amount the vet is charging is particularly high, each time Spangler had his patella op it was approx £1000 for the op itself, and extra for each visit afterwards - ex-rays etc.

As long as you are confident and have no doubts about your chosen surgeon then that is all you can ask!

Good luck with your boy.

thankyou will keep you updated let you know what happens.

As other people have said I would certainly question getting both legs done at once. I know on smaller and lighter dogs it's a much simpler operation, but what happens if there's a complication, even just with one leg? - the other leg is weakened by the operation and has to take all the weight.... I imagine they're trying to reduce the amount of time he's out of action for - but it might well be safer to have him out of action for longer knowing each leg will have time to heal properly on its own. Have they said what operation they are doing? There are various different ones, some less effective than others and some with shorter recoveries than others.

Duibh had 2 ops that failed, then the third one he had an external fixator put on to stop the joint from moving (in fact very similar to Spangler :) ) and that has been successful. He had his internal pins out early - the surgeon wasn't keen but the pin had worked loose and was poking through the skin, and it was either that or replace and with Xray he felt they'd been in long enough. I was very jittery about it, but no problems. :) And he's happy with the bone healing now, so Duibh can go off lead again, and is allowed to go and climb mountians at the end of September (with a little gentle persuasion :D ) as long as he builds his muscle up a bit first. From his first op to removal of pins was 3.5mths so less than Spangler, but I still had to be quite careful for another 4-6weeks. And he's still not right on his leg - he doesn't bend it properly, and has a chronic limp.  But for a flatcoat he's light, at 27kg, I would guess Spangler was heavier.

How much does your dog weigh? How successful the op is can be affected by weight of dog and length of leg. The specialist said Duibh's problem was that the breed is shaped to have relatively long legs for their weight (racy) and because of the length of leg it put more strain on the repair when the joint moved.  I know someone with a wocker who's probably 12-14kg who had the op done, and he was back to lead walks after 1wk post op and normal function after a month or so. So it does depend. :)

(ETA After his second op Duibh had to be cage rested for 7weeks while the fixator was on. He got excited when you did ANYTHING with him, so he was literally crated most of the time for 7 weeks (things weren't helped by the fact I have laminates :rolleyes: ) which he did NOT enjoy. I fed him out of Kongs to make his meal last longer and try to take his mind off things a bit. But it was horrible. :( )

hi del is 18 kg, he did say the operation he was doing but i cant remember it of the top of my head, when i mentioned it to him he said that the method he uses only takes a few weeks to heal and that there is no chance of the operation going wrong or failing, he also said that dels legs would never be able to get any worse after the operation. i will give him a ring and let him know what people have said and see what he says, but when he was talking to us about it he honestly did not make the healing sound to bad. because we were talking in the room about taking time of work and he said there was no need to at all.

hi just thought i would give you the updtae on del, he goes in for the operation in few weeks time, spoke to the man about the operation and he says he uses a special method were some sort of pin is inserted into the knees which allows del to walk straight after the operation.

Hi I've been referred to the Croft Vet practice in Blyth Northumberland on two occasions in the past, and I can vouch for their experience. Particularly with regard to Orthopaedic surgery. I think the Vet you are seeing might be Mr Malcolm Ness, and yes, he is nationally renowned for his expertise.

This is the place that my Irish Setter Bailey, had his Laryngeal Tieback operation 7 weeks ago. Not Mr Ness though, on this occasion.

I trust this practice 100%

Dawn R.

ok thankyou yes it is him that is doing the operation and i have been told he is fantastic. just when everyone was saying it sounded abit weird doing both at once i was a bit scared to get it done.