I am relatively new to showing and wondered if someone could please help.

Our boy is coming up for 12 months and at the few open shows we have entered I've entered him in ESS Puppy or Junior and then if there is an AV Gundog class either Puppy or Junior in that too.  I also tend to enter him in the AV Puppy/Junior Stakes.

We were very pleased at the weekend when under Andrew Brace he was placed 1st in his ESS Puppy class and then went BPIB, RBOB and Group 3.

I have entries that I have already made and am a little worried now if he wins his Puppy class and BPIB (not on group system) can I withdraw him from the AV Gundog and stakes to remain unbeaten to challenge for BPIS.  On the group system can I withdraw him to challenge for BPIG.

I realise now that it's the classic sign of a novice to enter in as many classes as possible - we did this to gain ring experience and now he is approaching Junior the BP will not be an issue.

Should I only enter him in his breed (if availble) and not the AV Gundog classes.

Any other advice would be most welcome.

Regards

Vicky

If you want to then still enter the AV classes but as you say, withdraw if you o BP or BOB and want to rmain unbeaten :)

You can withdraw from AV classes if you win in your breed, but why do so at an open show? especially if it is the same judge as doing the group - If you are going to win the group then you will win the stakes/AV  as well

But why not be seen in the group and get the experiance of a group?  I would rather get a 4th or a split in a group rather then a 1st in AV :)

Also it's nice to represent your breed in the group ring for fellow exhibitros and also your judge :)

A group is really just a big AV class with just 1 dog of each breed there. I am a great believer in going into what you have entered at open shows, after all there must have been a reason for paying to go in an AV class

I know lots of people who enter AV who aren't novices, don't be worried about entering lots of classes, it's all for fun! Just withdraw any time you win BP or BOB. :-)

If the AV classes are after the group, do you have to withdraw from the variety classes before you go in the group?

No, and if they are after the group what is the point in withdrawing, unless you actually win the group, when I can see a point. You used not to be able to withdraw and if you didnt go in a class you were entered for you were considered beaten

You've been able to withdraw in the 20 odd years that I've been showing!  Done it a few times in the past and ended up with RBPIS and BIS, although it was many years ago with my Pomeranian's.

In fact most schedules quote - withdrawal from competition rules don't they - too much to type but couple of lines - basically says you can withdraw from al other competition other than breed classes.  Dogs may be withdrawn from AV classes when judged before Breed Classes.

Thanks so much for all your help and advice.

I think I'll continue to enter the AV classes for the experience (i need it - lol).  Then only withdraw from AV if we win BPIB, BOB or Group 1.

Ice Queen - I would never choose AV rather than the group, I just asked if I could withdraw from AV Gundog if winning BPIB or BOB to remain unbeaten to go in for the group or BPIS/BIS.

With the rules stating "if judged before breed classes" I didn't know if I could withdraw if AV was after the breed class.

Thanks again

Vicky

I'm confused again now - doesn't take much (sorry)

When I referred to AV Class I meant AV Gundog listed in some schdules under all the Gundog breeds not the AV Stakes classes.

Would AV Gundog be classed as a breed class or would that only be AVNSC Gundog?  Does the AV Gundog BPIB/BOB then go through to the group or BPIS/BIS or is that just the separately classified breeds?

I really will get my head around this enventually - promise!!

Vicky

You can withdraw from all or any Variety class but not breed classes, and where there is no breed class at shows on the group system to gain access to the group you would need to go in the AVNSC classes to qualify for group, at Non group shows any BOB or unbeaten dog can go through to BIS or BPIS, so from AV pup or AV gundog or AV Veteran, which is why at non group shows you will sometimes see more than one of a breed go through to the final.

I only ever withdraw from varieties if the judge doing group is different from the variety judge and I think I stand a god chance in group.

At other times I have taken the chance, won the variety class and still been able to go through, at others i didn't but wanted the variety Judges opinion more than the group judge.

Also I find variety class experience stands you in god stead if you ever get to go in Groups as your dog is used to being in with other breeds.  Also gives you a chance to see other breeds get to know something about them and see how other breeds are shown, and how ans why they are different to your own breed.

I must admit the lack of Variety classes and different judges affects whether I will go to Open shows nowadays.  I am not prepared to go to a show where I can only take my dog in one class, seems a waste of time and effort, same if all the eligible classes are being judged but the same person.