I went to a show but left my dogs at home as it was very hot !! I wanted to look at the stalls.  I saw a beautiful St Bernard collapse as this stupid woman had been dragging it around the showground, it was foaming at the mouth and could not breath properly.This was about an hour before it finally keeled over !! She still continued to drag it around whilst she chatted to people while it deteriorated and passed out.I was told that it died. It was reported to the show stewards but I don't believe they did anything . There were several other people pulling overheated dogs around the stalls and around the rings, some dogs looked very distressed. For the sake of a rosette these idiots made their dogs suffer. None of these mentioned had suitable hot weather protection for the dogs, sat in the shade, cold water, etc nothing at all !!! I do sometimes wonder why some people show, is it for their own glory ????

That poor dog. How sad :(  Unfortunately, as in just about any other thing you can think of, there will be people who do things for the wrongs reasons.  We were at a show on Saturday and it perfect showing weather - warm, overcast, with a breeze.  I was asked to go to a companion show on the Sunday (something I haven't done for many many years) but in the end opted out as it was so very hot.

The only thing you can do in the sort of situation you witnessed is to repeatedly report it to the show committee until something is done.  If it gets very extreme and nothing's being done at all then you can put a complaint to the KC.

Debs

I can't understand it either.  I was at EELKA on sunday and it was very hot.  The number of people who were called back to their cars due to dogs in distress in hoht vechiels was just far too many.  In the end the commitee where ancouing for cars called that immediate action would be taken and owners of these dogs would be found and escorted off the show ground.  I hope they infact they did practise what they preached.  It was very hot and in the group ring I had a wet towle over my dog.  It didn't bother me she might be wet when the judge looked at her, she was lovely a cool on her coat when I took it off. :)  She then got soaked when we came out with Pastoral group 3! :D

If it was as hot there as it was over here on Sunday I can't believe ANYONE would leave a dog in a car AT ALL!!! :rolleyes: Did anyone actually end up with any consequences for doing it? (like reporting to the KC...)

The cars tempreture thingy was in the high 20's.  I wish that the KC would just find out who these people are and ban them from shows.  We had my grandparents dogs in cages (they brought a 2nd cage at the show so that it was only 2 dogs in large cage, not 3) and our 3 dogs were kept in the shade all day being aloud to spread them selves out on the cool shaded grass.  luckily they are well enough behaved to not have to be tide down and they can wander over to the water bowle whenever they like and kept being sprayed with water.

One of our friends went BOB and BP but went home between her breed and the groups so the dog could chill out in the A/C'd car and teh house for abit while she also picked up some more ice cold water.

I cant understand why they dont use the indoor rings when the weather is extremely hot it doesnt make sense to me its as bad as showing in the winter outside in the pouring rain or snow.

I keep my dogs inside in the grooming area where its cool I only take them out to toilet as I dont think its fair that they cook in the sun, I go outside with them when its my class next so they are not outside for too long, I often see people sitting around the ring with thier dogs panting away.

If it was as hot there as it was over here on Sunday I can't believe ANYONE would leave a dog in a car AT ALL!

some people just do not deserve to have a dog, it really upsets me to know people will still leave a dog in a car in the heat

>I do sometimes wonder why some people show, is it for their own glory

Not meaning to be sarcastic,but isnt this the exact reason people show?  The rosettes,the trophy's etc etc. The dogs couldnt care less about the accolades,and i'm sure most would rather be at home or romping in a field then parading around a show ring.To be honest i cant see any benefit to the dog.

That may be true of a few folk but for others it is to seek assurance regarding the quality of your dog, particularly if you are considering breeding.  Speaking for myself, and my dogs I think :), a day spent on the hills would be preferable but there is a need to seek others opinions and there are other days for romping.  :).

Actually KTEE you couldn't be more wrong :rolleyes:  My dogs love going to shows, they love meeting the people and the general atmosphere of the show.  I couldn't care less what rosette I came how with and as you say nor could my dogs.  I don't know about other peoples dogs but mine really do just enjoy a change of scene etc. and many of us do go there just for the social aspect.

Yes there are some that only go for the glory, but I think that's more the minority than the majority!

It would have to be the minority that are in it for the glory as most of us don't get any :D  A freind of mine now decesed was a stalwart in her breed for most of her life and showed a gaggle of dogs at shows large and small, never making up a champion, but often getting a high award with one or other.

From what I've seen, it's the owners who enjoy the baking hot sun who are most likely to 'forget' (ignore) that their dogs are uncomfortable in the heat :(   Sheer selfishness, but it isn't just at shows that this happens

Although both of mine seem to enjoy the sun, they are kept in the shade and cool at shows and soaked regularly with water to make sure they're cool while in the ring.  In addition, they are encouraged to drink by adding milk to their water - otherwise they turn their noses up :rolleyes:   At home they just have water :rolleyes:

Yes you see people dragging their poor dogs on hot family outings etc.

I am a heat hater (being over weight is not all of the reason :D), and in the summer I wait until about 8pm to take the dogs out.

Mine can probably tolerate heat better than I can.

KTEE

No it isnt how annoying we get people like you!!! our danes romp to their hearts content (or their muscle tone shows!!) we dont meet many dogs if any they socialise thru shows and all well adapted dogs as are most in our breed, we never stick them in the van nor keep them in the sun as many showers dont...

I am annoyed by your attitude that winning a poxy rosette is paramount to our dogs welfare!!!! if you think that you have been at the wrong show hun or the wrong breed ring...
More than not as it should be showing is a social activity!! i see no difference in taking a dog to a show to sticking it in a church hall (no ventilation) for obedience training and i have been to a few classes up and down the country that have made me sweat to hell!!!

As i have said i live in a rural area and the amount of people that think their beloved dog can do a 6mile hike in scorching temps on our local mountains is beyond me!! in all walks of life you get numptys dont tar us all with the same brush..

I show to have a day out, to meet people, to socialise my dog,  MY DOG LOVES SHOWING !!!  He loves to meet people and other dogs.  Some idiots take their dogs no matter what just to be in with a chance to win an award. AT THE COST OF THE DOG'S WELFARE !!!  I have seen bitches on heat that caused fights between male exhibits, dogs with terrible diarrhoea, dogs with oozing noses, coughing dogs, dogs with discharge from eyes / noses, dogs with skin conditions that are sore and bleeding. DOGS THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN AT HOME AND NOT BEING DRAGGED AROUND A SHOW. Total selfishness.  That is my point. Sorry but I dont show for the glory, don't always get any anyway.!   I do it for fun as I am sure lots of others do !!!!

No Ktee, you're completely wrong, at least about 99% of exhibitors. Yes, winning is fun, but it's only the icing on the cake. There's far more to showing than winning. The dogs enjoy it - let's face it, they're out and about with the people they love, and that's what matters to them. They're not fussed whether they're romping in a field or trotting round a showring - they're with their people, and that's better then being home alone! It's also more beneficial to them in respect of facilities provided than being taken around town or being stuck in the car while the owner goes shopping or visiting a tourist attraction. :rolleyes:

Of course there are the exceptions, but they're to be found in any occupation or pastime.

We were recently at a show where we had great indoor facilities, but the Judges refused to move indoors.  Complaints were made to the show manager but nothing was done, the poor dogs were really struggling.  Luckily for us we were in a small class, if it was any bigger I would have withdrawn (Benched indoors which was very cool)
So its not just the exhibitors who are to blame

Let me use our breed championship show last Saturday as an example. My own two bitches didn't do anything spectacular this time -both have had a very good year with some excellent wins but one now totally out of coat, the other simply was not to this particular judge's liking -happens. Doesn't worry me.

Now I was the one being bothered by the sun as I am every, very sensitive and burn and blister even with Factor 40 on. My breed however are very very tolerant of heat. Not that I'd expose them to anything too much anyway! But for my dogs, Saturday was great fun. We met up with so many people they know and love, several puppy buyers, so many brothers/sisters etc of my dogs, it was like a big family reunion, the dogs absolutely loved it, and they all had such fun meeting each other ,playing etc. Outdoors all day with their owners (and not just sitting still either but walking, two dogs went for a run together etc), nice treats, being fussed by so many people, playing with relatives etc -what more can any dog ask for! :) (My day was made when 2 dogs I bred qualified for Crufts and their dad took his second CC, I couldn't have been happier about the ticket had he been my own dog, which he isn't!)

Yep mine are real social butterflies and just love seeing all their canine and human pals that they wouldn't get to see if they didn't go to shows.  Only problem is that I can't take them all each time and those left behind get excited and a bit miffed when they realise it isn't their turn to go

Not meaning to be sarcastic,but isnt this the exact reason people show?  The rosettes,the trophy's etc etc.

Whilst everyones opinions that is in my opinion such a ignorant view.   Good breeders and exhibitors use the showring to measure the quality of their stock, compare to other stock etc. 

You would find if most people could do this without running round a ring and spending £200 per show they would :-) how else do you measure your stock..

When I had one of mine in the ring she loved it, as said before, it was one big family reunion between her breeder, Sister, Niece etc.  The placing didn't matter either it was more the bacon butty, coffee and a catch up with friends (who I don't see or speak to on a daily basis) that makes for a thoroughly enjoyable day :-)  I can honestly say I started showing by taking my dog training to socialise her and one thing led to another etc- but I can honestly say I have made some wonderful friends, met lovely people and lovely dogs, obviously you get the bad too but so long as The good out weigh them then what the heck :-D  My older bitch adored being at a show- she got my full attention all day since the day was all about her, no stopping to do the pots, answer the door/phone etc.  I can remember once at Durham she slipped the lead and still continued to gait round the ring :-D 

Also as Blue says how can you measure the quality of your dogs?  The majority of show people show dogs as a way of life- one leads to two etc etc, you tend to look for holidays, places, parks etc that allow dogs, you buy houses assessing first the size of the garden, possible kennel areas, utility access, do the neighbours live too close, is the garden secure enough etc etc- all this you do before you've even looked at the kitchen and thought about whether YOU like the house :-)  Its not quite as simple as having the one dog as a pet that you leave in kennels when you go away.  We've bought cars and vans with the dogs in mind, we look at the nutritional value in dog food rather than buy what seems to be good cash value :-)

And 'NO'- I HAVEN'T had any major success showing dogs in terms of awards and self glory- I do it simply because I thoroughly enjoy my dogs and I thoroughly enjoy exhibiting them :-D

Stacey x 

Stacey you sound just like me!! :D :D

Also as Blue says how can you measure the quality of your dogs?  The
majority of show people show dogs as a way of life- one leads to two etc
etc, you tend to look for holidays, places, parks etc that allow dogs,
you buy houses assessing first the size of the garden, possible kennel
areas, utility access, do the neighbours live too close, is the garden
secure enough etc etc- all this you do before you've even looked at the
kitchen and thought about whether YOU like the house :-)  Its not
quite as simple as having the one dog as a pet that you leave in kennels
when you go away.  We've bought cars and vans with the dogs in mind, we
look at the nutritional value in dog food rather than buy what seems to
be good cash value :-)


AND ME :-) LOL

OMG   just about had enough tonight!!   Been to an evening show, quite warm even though indoors, all dogs panting and needed keeping cool.  Stupid, stupid woman with a poodle, holding its muzzle shut while spraying its coat to death with foul smelling hairspray stuff. Its nose and lips huff and puff as it tries to pant. She then proceeds to clamp its muzzle tightly shut for almost 10 mins while waiting to go in ring.  I made a polite comment to her that the dog was gasping for breath, she told me to p**s off !!! Nice woman, it was only when my husband backed me up than another exhibitor asked her also. She refused to let go of dogs muzzle before dragging it into ring !!!  whats wrong with these people ???  aaaarrrggghhhhhh!!

Think that hairspray is a substance that isn't allowed in a dogs coat
at the time of exhibition ;)
It also goes to show that it isn't pleasant for the dog if she has to hold the mouth
closed to avoid the fumes of the hairspray.

It doesn't excuse her from being rude either!

Must admit that some coat preparation stuff normally aerosol based ones really makes me wheezy and I only
have mild asthma, thankfully normally Boxers are scheduled as an outdoor ring so
I don't have to put up with it until winter months when we are indoors.

That's awful - and if it's that bad to breath the stuff in, holding the mouth shut won't help, the poor thing thing will still be breathing it through the nose! :-(

The majority of show people show dogs as a way of life- one leads to two etc etc, you tend to look for holidays, places, parks etc that allow dogs, you buy houses assessing first the size of the garden, possible kennel areas, utility access, do the neighbours live too close, is the garden secure enough etc etc- all this you do before you've even looked at the kitchen and thought about whether YOU like the house :-)  Its not quite as simple as having the one dog as a pet that you leave in kennels when you go away.  We've bought cars and vans with the dogs in mind, we look at the nutritional value in dog food rather than buy what seems to be good cash value

You've just explained me too and many other "just pet owners" :)

Except i dont call my dogs "stock",i wouldnt leave them in kennels out in the back garden or put them in kennels if i go away. But the rest,can totally relate :)

It's pedigree dogs you have isn't it Ktee?  Are they purely from working lines?

'Just pet owners' i find that very condescending theres no difference in my mind to show or pet at the end of the day they live in my home and are treated as pets are, i AM a pet owner as we all are i just like to show as a hobby....

My girls are pets first and foremost - if we can show and have some fun
then thats a bonus.

Sure I've been showing 18 years and haven't scaled to the heady heights of
winning CC's (got to the final 4 for a CC once though). Think I am quite grounded.

My dogs don't get rehomed once retired from the show ring. They stay with me.
I can only have 4/5 Boxers max at any one time. Hence why I am only expecting
my 2nd litter in 6 years the first one was 6 yrs and almost 2 months ago.
This will put me upto 4 Boxers as I'm hoping to keep one and yes hopefully they will
be good enough to show.

I'm realistic I may never scale the heady heights, but I'm happy to show as long as the
girls enjoy their day out and me too (oh and as long as we can afford to show as it's getting
an expensive hobby) 

Oh and I've had my car tinted last year to help my dogs in summer, we've even bought a air-conditioning portable unit
to help the dogs when it gets too hot for comfort at home.
Yes they are pampered, but they are worth every penny!:D

Ktee, you quote from Blue's posting, and then add the comment Except I don't call my dogs "stock".

Where in her post does Blue use that term please?   

You appear to be putting words in that are'nt there!

Margot

Good breeders and exhibitors use the showring to measure the quality of their stock, compare to other stock etc.

I dont agree with KTEE but it was in blues posting! as above.

The only people I've heard refer to 'stock' are those who tend to breed for profit :(  - and no, they don't show!  Maybe Bedlington show people are different tho, the dogs tend to be pets first, show/breeding second ;)

Sorry that is simply not true. 

Stock is a term used to encompass all forms of domestic livestock of which dogs are one.

In a breeders meaning stock would be the term to mean the dogs that they have bred or can breed from.  Whether their individual value is as a pet has no bearing on the use of the word.

What collective term would you use for what the breeder has bred or uses for breeding, and puts in front of others for assessment at shows or trials?

As I wrote

>Maybe Bedlington show people are different tho, the dogs tend to be pets first, show/breeding second

I was commenting on the breeders I KNOW - not show breeders in general ;)

The breeders I KNOW refer to the dogs themselves as individuals, they don't generally keep/breed large numbers of dogs or bitches, litters are small and names easily remembered.

Many of the exhibitors not only know the parents and grandparents of their own dogs, but those behind the others in the ring as well! - and know the pet names as well as the registered names of the dogs.

Margot

This is what I've experienced Margot, the breed is small enough to know parents, grand-parents, great-grand parents of the different dogs, what's produced from different matings and how well it's doing in the ring. 

BUT line breeding can also alter a type hugely also so past experience is not good enough I am afraid :-)

I have owned 6 generations of my own bitches so know that many generations generally so have probably met many of the British born dogs in most five generation pedigrees of my breed.

I was commenting on the breeders I KNOW - not show breeders in general

What you mean you know breeders who breed for other reasons than the show ring or working  :-) hmmmmmm

Sadly I do :(   I don't condone it or agree with it and certainly wouldn't be involved in it in any way, but as they don't breed more often than is recommended there isn't a lot can done to stop it   

The only people I've heard refer to 'stock' are those who tend to breed for profit 

Well you met them now :-D    A bit of a sweeping statement :-)

If I bred for Profit I would have thrown the towel in a fews back..

I stand corrected - Blue did use the term "stock" - but not in the paragraphs you quoted from.

Margot

I've never and wouldn't call my dogs stock! 

>I've never and wouldn't call my dogs stock!  <

I've called mine a lot of things in their time - especially when they've opened the fridge/tipped over paint/jumped with muddy feet all over a clean duvet cover :D :D :D :D

Margot

I don't think Blue intended to use the word in a derogatory manner :) - I took it to mean a collective noun for all the dogs she has bred and owned, and still breeds and owns,  and used it as a term to cover all her dogs :) Or that is how I read it anyway :)

Yep that is what I said.  The product of a breeders work I would term their 'stock' some may be their own pets ans some other peoples, and of course have their own individual names and value.  I too see it as a collective term in the same way as some would say their 'kennel'  but for many of us that word means kennel buildings and how the dogs are accommodated.

I own or have owned 6 1/4 dogs of my own and bred a further 70, so what would the collective term be for them all if 'stock' is somehow insulting?

Exactly :-)


stock:a quantity of something accumulated, as for future use: a stock of provisions. Straight from the dictionary..

We need to send some of our members back to school ;-) :-D

So what collective word do you use for your " stock" of lines or group ?? I wait with baited breath..

They're just my dogs :d 

Actually I replied because I never even saw where you mentioned stock but the way that it was put on another posting (not by you) I "thought" it was being used in a derogatory manner.