Has anyone else been following this?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6906594.stm

I can't get out of my mind not only the senseless killing of this young woman but also the way she died and the fact that her own father and uncle deemed it perfectly OK to torture her by rape and garotting before she eventually died

Lindsay
x

I can't believe it either.  When they showed the father he looked like a really intelligent nice guy.  I just don't know how any human being can do this to anyone let alone their own child and neice!

I've done a lot of travelling since my late teens and realised many years ago that it's not colour, race or creed that makes us different - it's culture.  What is perfectly acceptable to one culture is abhorant to another.  I've never thought that it was a good idea for emigration or immigration that it now accepted as normal. :(

>I've never thought that it was a good idea for emigration or immigration that it now accepted as normal.

What is accepted as normal?

> I've never thought that it was a good idea for emigration or immigration that it now accepted as normal.

Does it matter whether it happens here or elsewhere ?? :( It would still happen :(

Daisy

If we are talking about it being accepted as normal here because of immigration it is clearly not by the sentencing handed out.

It's very sad that Banaz went to police and was not taken seriously -

She had repeatedly told police her family were trying to kill her. In one instance where she had escaped from her father, she was not taken seriously, and described as melodramatic and manipulative by an officer who interviewed her. from here:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/crime/article/0,,2104428,00.html

Some more info on honour killings:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3088828.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1778891.stm

Banaz' sister speaks out:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/femail/article.html?in_article_id=462342&in_page_id=1879

Lindsay
x

the police now take Honour based killings very serious.  It has been happending over here for a while and is very difficult to prevent.  the cultural draw on the family is increadible and it takes alot for these girls to even think about approaching the police, if they're lucky enough to get there in one peice.

I think alot of people (talking in general) are very ignorant to the number and range of cultures in Britain and the ways.  It frighteningto know that in some countries Honour based violence is legal and an accepted defence!

Jill

That's horrific!     Just read A thousand Splendid Suns by Khaled Housseini - excellent book but it says a lot about the place of women in that society.  Also watched Rageh Omargh last night on BBC 4.  He was doing a documentary on Iran - on the surface Tehran looks like a modern bustling city but the insight into the difference in culture was really interesting.  It wasn't possible for him to conduct himself without making mistakes even with the help he had.
Even with cultural differences though I don't think that explains these men - not everyone who comes from that cultural background would kill because of family shame - that does take something extra nasty I think. They just had the excuse to do it.  

Someone said recently (can't remember where/who) that all religions were about the control of women :( :(

Just remembered - it was the excellent George Monbiot on Question Time (or whatever the one on Radio 4 is called - old age playing havoc with the memory again :D )

Daisy

I think the idea is about the fact that women are the givers of life and men feel they need to control this.

Yes - in a lot of cultures women just provide the children and young boys the pleasure :( :( :(

Daisy

the insight into the difference in culture was really interesting.  It wasn't possible for him to conduct himself without making mistakes even with the help he had.

That's quite an eye opener isn't it.
That he made mistakes even though he was given help not to do so.

Lindsay
x

My father lived in Iran from 1948-1951. As a single man he had to be VERY careful :( :( Totally different was when my sister lived there from 1973 until 1974 in Tehran itself (before the Shah's overthrow). She thoroughly enjoyed herself and had a few Iranian boyfriends who were very pleasant (although she would never have got more deeply involved). My father never trusted Iranians tho' :)

Daisy

The one convention that Rageh O said was very difficult was that if you were offered something you had to refuse - the other then pressed it on you and so it goes on until the person accepts.  He worried that he had accepted the drivers invitation to dinner too readily and that maybe it wasn't really meant.  This has a name - something beginning with t.  He was writing an article on women who had achieved in Tehran and he was having it published in a magazine there.  He had to write it with all the knowledge about the society that he had learned there but when the editor went over it he had still made statements that would have caused offence.  For instance he mentions that you never see a woman riding a motorbike/scooter - they are not allowed to and actually saying so was wrong and it had to be reworded so everyone knew what it meant - without saying it.   Women on the surface there seemed to have a lot of freedom - the dress / jacket that is a popular garment was made in a standard length by the suggestion of the government - it was shunned by women who wanted shorter and tighter.   We would have thought that life wasn't that bad for them - they all get the chance of a good education too.  However they have to be careful how they conduct themselves and how they talk to men.  The undercurrent of society there made life difficult for men and women.
My sister also had an Iranian boyfriend - here in this country - he was an exile at the time.  He was a lovely man but his aspirations were different to my sister and the relationship fizzled out after they had lived together for a few years.

My sister was lucky (?) that she saw a totally different side of Iran in the Seventies. She was living with an American diplomatic family (teaching their deaf daughter) and life was, to a certain extent, like that of living in London :) However, any relationships had to be casual and she was guided very much by the family she lived with as it was possible, even then, to get it wrong :( My father left to come home to find a wife as he knew that the celebate (and at times difficult) life there wasn't for him any more :) :)

Daisy

It's funny isn't it.  Many doctors that we have had in the past are Iranian and they all were extremely polite (actually in an over the top way) and pleasant with me.  Even to the extent of when they'd go home for a holiday they would bring back a present etc.  the rest from other cultures didn't even send a postcard back :d

they are not allowed to and actually saying so was wrong and it had to be reworded so everyone knew what it meant - without saying it

I understand exactly what you mean. There are accepted ways and methods of getting things across in their culture, however I find it strange
that it's not understood that those who are not of their culture are not always understood as simply making a mistake, rather than being intentionally
rude or dismissive.

Lindsay
x

there is something on the HEAVEN and EARTH show about this NOW 9-10 bbc1 that might be interesting.
Unfortunatly I will miss.
Lea :)

Thanks Lea, unfortunately I also missed it, thanks for the heads up though :)

Lindsay
x

No different really to the terrible things that are done to immigrants over here.  I expect a lot of Iranians believe(d) that the British are not to be trusted either.............