I was reading on another site about an owner who had one of her dogs pts, because two of her bitches had a fight!!! What are your opinions? All the other posters on the board said it was the right thing to do, but my opinion is totally different, and is as follows......Dogs will be dogs ( and bitches ;) ) If a dog attacks a human being that is one thing, two bitches fighting, especially after on e has just finished her season is totally different. I cannot understand if the owner was that concerned, why she didnt rehome her as an only dog, or contact rescue, and what was a vet doing putting a perfectly healthy bitch to sleep?

As the owner of bitches that have fought I wouldn't dream of putting them to sleep. I haven't even rehomed them I just keep them separate. Means I have to go out more times a day for walks but I couldn't live with myself putting a dog to sleep just because it fought with one of my others. I wouldn't have any left!

That's a really difficult situation. Assuming the bitch that was PTS had never shown any sign of aggression and the injuries weren't serious then I'd have looked at rehoming before I went to the vet.

If however it wasn't the first time the dog had been nasty and the injuries were serious then I'd have felt I had no choice other than to have the dog pts.

Very sad situation,

Fiona
x x x

I have litter sisters who used to occasionally have a fight. Then they came into season almost at the same time and the fights became really nasty. Now they get on all the time and can play and play all day. I would never have had either of them pts or rehomed

I did notice that one of the bitches had recently had a season so my first thoughts would be a phantom pregnancy as a poss cause for sudden aggression.

At present I am boarding 2 bitches for a fellow breeder (her husband is terminally ill so numbers needed to be reduced quickly) one had finished her season a few wks prior to coming to me. I have 4 bitches of my own 3 of whom are in season now, both the boarding bitches I've known from early puppyhood so knew their normal behaviour.

When one of these bitches decided to 'go for it' with my spayed bitch and a puppy bitch I had a good idea she was having a phantom because they'd all been fine together for 2 wks. Sure enough I rang her owner and asked the question yep she was 8-9 wks post season and no she'd not had a phantom before, she's now on bicarb in her food twice a day and feeling a lot happier with the world.

I'm sorry but there are many ways to go with sudden onset aggression between bitches and as a breeder I would be mortified if I found out one of my bitch puppies had been PTS under such circumstances. I always tell my buyers bring them back no matter what if you can't cope and I'm always on the end of the phone if there are problems.

Hi Phil, we had to keep Rathlin and Flea totally separated for over 18 months before we found the perfect home for Rath. We wouldn't have dreamed of having one put down. Was there something out of the ordinary about this fight?

Hi sharon, as far as the posting read, nothing out of the ordinary, just a normal "nasty" bitch fight

If the owner insist that she wants her dog PTS -then the vet has a legal obligation to do as requested. Most of the vets I have dealt with would have tried their hardest to a) get the owner to contact a behaviourist, or b) get them to sign the dog over to the vet for rehoming....

Fran

Digger, my vet would NEVER put a healthy dog to sleep, no matter what the owner insisted on

My hubbys sister did the same thing when her young GSD bitch kept having fights with the older lurcher bitch, she says she did it because the lurcher got hurt but I didn't believe her and think it was just an easy way out of having 2 dogs she couldn't cope with. The fights started when she left the dogs to go on holiday and just left a key with a neighbour to check on them and feed them ( notice no mention of actually walking them!) I actually phoned the RSPCA but they weren't interested as the dogs were being fed and checked daily.
Needless to say we haven't spoken for over a year now, probably for the best as I was so angry with her as we only had one dog at the time and would have happily taken Sassy (lurcher) off her. makes me angry just writing about it

Hi Julie, no wonder you still are so angry, I would be too, when oh when will people ever learn!!

I know we rarely disagree Phillipa, and although I do not know the ins & outs of this incident/case, I have to say that I would NEVER EVER rehome one of my hounds and would probably consider putting to sleep before rehoming (not that I plan to do either, fights with bitches are just part of life) :)

Sam, my father has always said the same about rehoming but I've never got a clear answer as to 'why?' out of him. The bitch I rehomed recently was fine with the other dogs and the only problem was with her sister. I still own her, and she's not far away, living with a couple who have a deerhound of roughly the same age (who turned out, by pure chance, to be her half-brother).

id go for the rehoming-PROVIDING, that was all there was to it, also that the one that would be rehomed had the sort of temperament that would cope with a new home, if however i found myself with an agressive dog that was un rehomable then yes pts would be an option, i think each case would need to be assesed individually,

Hi sam, yes we do normally think along similar lines. I wouldnt normally rehome a hound either ( this wasnt a hound by the way) but in certain cases I think to be rehomed to a loving home is better than being pts for a young healthy dog. If people cant take the heat (and I think all bitches have a set to occasionally) THEN DONT GO IN THE KITCHEN IN THE FIRST PLACE.!!!!!!!

hi.
I don't think that the owner of this dog would have taken this decision lightly. It appears she was normally ok, then changed very quickly and the fights were unprovoked and very severe. This is no small breed it is in fact a Great Dane, and if I were her owner I think I would need to consider very carefully if rehoming her was the right decision. Small children live in the house, it may not have been possible to keep the dogs seperate and I believe the last fight broke out while the small child was in the same room, and as we know accidents DO happen. Given all the facts here I don't think it would be very responsible to rehome such a large and powerful dog, with an unpredictable temperament, knowing what she is capable of and expecting a new owner to deal with it. We may all have different opinions, but I believe this person did the right thing in this situation. Just how I feel.
Dawn.

P.S. Why aren't Danes in the hound group? originally they were used for hunting Deer and Wild Boar, always something that intrigued me.

With all due respect Dawn there has been no indication that the other dog required veterinary treatment, which I would have thought would have been required if the fights were that severfe. I've had to wipe blood off the ceiling when 2 of my girls had a go at each other and they are small terriers. However, at no time have I considered having them killed because of it. If I couldnt have kept them separate (I'll still own all the dogs I have bought or bred that are still alive) I would have rehomed. However can anyone really make a decision like this within 48 hours of the first fight? There is no suggestion that the aggression was aimed towards people even whilst being separated.
I'm sorry but I think the decision was far too hasty and a young healthy dog has died for what? Particularly bearing in mind that she was probably hormonal at the time.

Hi again Dawn, You are totally right, we ARE all entitled to our own opinion.:) As you probably know I have a giant breed, and two giants fighting is not something to be looked on lightly. However, as I read the post, the poor dog had shown no aggression towards humans, so why put her to sleep? As Bec has said, she was probably still hormonal, and we ladies know what that can do to our tempers:):):)
At least she should have been given a chance to prove herself.

Sorry Guys, agree to disagree on this one, I would have carefully considered what to do if she were mine, but then I only have eyes for boys!!!! so hopefully it won't come to that.
Dawn.

Putting a dog to sleep is a very hard decesion to make don't you think? But not knowing the full details then if it was me would get advice from my vet or rehoming as the dog was so young.

Julieann

Iam of the opinion that any dogs can have a fight They are dogs , and dogs do fight . I cant for the life of me see any justification at all for killing a dog because of a fight . I had a G shepherd that was a killer to other dogs , if allowed to be near them he would literally eat them , he was as strong as any rottie or bully and boy could he fight , . He had to be muzzled going out , as he would attack any dog . But he was one of the best dogs ever with children and was very people friendly
I know where his hatred came from for other dogs.
He was first belonging to my sister and her ex husband . when they split he would not give her the dog. He tied Jasper up all day while he was at work , and he was hassled all day by the neighbours dog . nipping him and tormenting him . he was tied up and had to endure what ever happened ,
One day they were burning rubbish and the hedge caught fire , Jasper was behind the hedge tied up and was burned before the neighbour could untie him .
The dog belonging to the neighbour followed him in and attacked him and bit him where he was burned . He was only 12 months old at the time . We were called and took him home and looked after him and refused then to give him back [another story]
I kept him myself and out walking one day I noticed his hackles rising . you know the rest.
My point here is a dog doesent automatically attack without there being some history to make him like that .
perhaps the other dog bullied her when she was a pup and then being bigger she had the upper hand , I dont know and its too late now as the dog is dead . Im only posting on the subject in case someone reading may have a similiar thing and would hopefully reconsider before taking such drastic action , Mari

Hi Mari, How lucky your GSD was to have you to take him in and look after him. xxx

i have 2 stafford bitches that hate each other and have had a couple of falling outs but never done any harm both bitches get on with all the other dogs just not with each other i keep seperated. but the funny thing is they will go out for walks with each other,i never let them of together though, i would never consider putting either of them to sleep

Well Phillipa , you have had a lot of opinions on this subject . what are your feelings re the response . Mari :)

Hi Mari, well a very mixed reaction it seems, but this is one of the great things about this board, providing we are polite (!) we can all have our own individual opinions, which is great. My opinion hasnt changed at all, and I live with giant dogs. I am sure the lady is devasted at losing a magnificent animal, and she truly has my sympathy, but I havnt changed my opinion at all. This dog was not attacking humans, and as I understand the posting, however bad the fight, this bitch did not turn on a human being. Most of us here know that dogs DO fight sometimes, and bitches in particular are really nasty once they start. As for rather having the dog put to sleep than finding a SUITABLE home for it, I cannot understand this. A dog fitting the description of the one in the posting could have been homed as an only dog, lived with a male, homed through Dane Rescue who would have assessed her first, and probably other options too. I am not someone who says a dog must be saved at any cost, I have had a 10 month old puppy pts through bad temprement, she was a people biter. I am not ashamed of doing it, just sad it happened, and if anyone wants to know the story I will tell it. This bitch was not like that, her only crime was to have a fight with another dog, and who can honestly say, if they have a few dogs at home, that they have never experienced problems like this? Have all homes that have had similar problems ,had a dog pts because of it? I dont think so!!! To all who have different opinions to mine, if it ever happens to you, look in your dogs eyes when you are at the vets with them, and ask yourself what have they done wrong, apart from fighting with another dog? Then tell the vet to go ahead and do the deed. If I have offended anyone with this posting, please accept my apologies, as it was not my aim to do so, just a difference of opinion.

Hi Phillipa I am with you all the way here , like you I respect the opinions of others . but what troubles me a bit is how many are willing to try and save a child or people biter but are willing to kill them if it is a dog fight .
I rarely find people willing to forgive a dog for attacking another dog . I find this very hard to digest as this is really a dog thing . I do not care how many examples I get as to the how well behaved our dog is . Statistics prove dog fights are an every day occurence . and people attacks are rare in comparison.
I still feel the same as you about the situation and if every dog that fights is put down . there would be one hell of a lot of dogs dead.
Mari

Hi Mari, Thank you ,we obviously have similar ideas about this sort of thing. I agree with you too, dogs will be dogs and even dogs that have been friends for years will suddenly have a fight about something, its the nature of the beast!! However, a dog that suddenly attacks humans for no good reason, is a totally different matter, and imo these are probably the kind of attacks that do need a one way trip to the vets.

Hi Philipa & Mari

I have two cocker bitches, and they have a pop at one another nearly every day., starts out playing and then the puppy gets over excited and it ends up in a fight. I would not dream of ever having a dog pts because of this. I used to be a veterinary nurse and I'll never forget the first couple of weeks I had started there. A lady bought a doberman in, 18 months old, and he kept fighting with the other dogs and just didn't get on with them, he was very hyper. I have to say from what I can remember she had about 8 of them. She wanted him pts, and I had to assist the vet. It upset me greatly, and I pleaded with her to find a home for him instead of doing this, she said that he just wouldn't get on with other dogs and it was better for him to be pts.

It upsets me to think that people are willing to play "god" so quickly, there are so many genuine people who are looking for dogs as pets., surely a few months out of that animals life to find a good home is not too much to ask.

I apologise to anyone who finds my post offending, it is just my opinion !!

Natasha

Hi Natasha, Thanks for your input on this thread, what a horrible situation that must have been for you!! It obviously impressed you a lot, because you remember it so well. I greatly admire veterinary nurses, who at times have a horrible job to do, and have no say in the outcome as the Vet is the boss.:)

Hi Philipa

I only lasted about 9 months !! You have to harden up so quickly and almost assist with no emotion whatsoever. Which is something I can not do !! I still remember all the animals that I had assisted in being pts. It was a very emotional and draining with the long hours, and admire anyone who can stick to this sort of a job.

Natasha

Mari, I've always been uneasy about trying to save people aggressive dogs too. It depends on the size of the dog, the circumstances and the severity of the aggression, but imo a large dog that is genuinely aggressive to humans is just too dangerous. Because of where I live, I could probably cope with a big dog that was generally dog aggressive, but not everyone is so fortunate and I'd have every sympathy for someone who couldn't keep a dog aggressive dog away from other dogs, and so decided to have it put down. I think that would be more reponsible than letting it terrorise the neighbourhood or putting it into rescue. But as you say, occassional dog fights go with owning more than one dog and there is always a small risk of two bitches taking a serious dislike that may end with a fight to the death.

I also respect the opinions of others, and I'm talking hypothetically here, and not about the person on the other board, since I don't know who they are, which board they posted to or anything about their particular circumstances. But in general I'm not comfortable with putting a dog down for some 'localised' reason, rather than rehoming it. I'm not 'getting at' anyone on the board - I don't know enough about why they feel that way to do so - but this is an argument I've had with my father over the years. He says that he wouldn't trust anyone else to care for his dog, and thinks that the dog would be so upset at losing him that it would be better put down. I think that he is being arrogant, except maybe in the case of a very old dog. The occassional dog may be so attached to its owner that it won't settle elesewhere, but I'd rather give it the chance.

Some of you with bitches that have fought might not have had bitches like 'hers' that have fought. You weren't there!
Some litter sisters will fight to the death given the chance.
She may not have had the right facilities to be able to separate - or she may not have wanted to.
I would rather a dog of mine was pts than rehomed if I was no longer able to look after her for whatever reason. You can't always guarantee that whoever homes your dog won't reject it in the future or mistreat/neglect it. Who was it mentioned Black Beauty????? OK - I know that was a horse!!!
That aside - when you home a dog you have a duty of responsibility both to the dog and the potential owners.
This owner assessed the situation and decided in her opinion that the correct and responsible action in this particular case was to pts. Don't beat her up about it - she might be feeling pretty devastated.

I agree fully with you Lara. After reading about what had happened on the other board, this wasn't a decision taken lightly and yes she does feel very devastated about it as some of you know.

Hi Vicky, nobody has said that she didnt feel " beaten up " about it, any dog lover would, I just dont feel she made a fair decision for the dog, and wondered what others thought.

Let's get things into perspective here, this is a Great Dane we are talking about and luckily her husband was in the house when it happened, and it wasn't just once, it took both of them to pull her off. Suppose this had happened when one of them was on their own with the kids and it had become a blood bath with one of the dogs being killed and the kids watching, what effect would that have. The dog was a few days off 2 years old so just reaching maturity, this could have been the way she was going to develop, I've had dogs in the past that have totally changed as they grow up. There are enough dogs in rescue at the moment needing homes without putting problem dogs in, and if she was going to become dog aggressive then it is a huge responsibility for someone to take on such a large dog with this instinct. The lady is totally devestated, she has lost a friend she had since a pup and has to explain to her young children that they won't see it any more, a very hard decision to make but a very responsible one. Ingrid

Was the other dog hurt requiring veterinary treatment then? It certainly doesn't appear so as the other dog has never been mentioned. 48 hours is not long enough to think rationally about it. The chances are this dog was having a phantom pregancy and required some understanding of her behaviour not condemnation. Besides, who kills their friends?

Bec, why don't you post and ask the lady concerned on the other board ?
As far as who killls friends, well there was a thread on there a while ago about a greyhound/lurcher and jack russell who had happily lived together for 2 years and then the jack russell was killed in the kennel by it's mate, both bitches.
One thing I would ask those who condemn this lady is how many of you have had rescue dogs and know the problems involved with a dog whose past is unknown, it can be very difficult and with a big dog with known aggression tendancies it is certainly not easy. How many of you would have offered the dog a home ? Ingrid

Hi Ingrid, I for one have never condemned this lady, in fact the opposite, I feel great sympathy for her situation, and as a matter of interest, I would have offered the dog a home. I have rescues and unwanteds as well as dogs that I have intentionally purchased and ones that I have bred myself. A lot of rescues do give the new owner problems, I think we are all well aware of that, but that is a situation that people should be aware of before they take one on.

Firstly Ingrid the reason why I haven't responded is that Jeanne would not like my reply and that is why I haven't posted there. However, if you think it would benefit the situation then I have no probelsm with telling her my opinion about what she has done.
This is the second time that people on that particular board have agreed with a dog fighter being put to death yet on champdogs dogs that have bitten people are treated with sympathy and solutions to their problems provided by the same people.

Well I would certainly have offered her a temp home I've had rescue Deerhound/wolfhound and Deerhoud/greyhound crosses for exactly this reason. I am surprised her vet didn't offer her Galastop (sp) or advice about ways of helping, ie reduce her food slightly, until the suspected phantom was over.

I am at present boarding dogs for a fellow breeder whos husband is terminal and have had the same problems with 2 of her bitches fighting as I've stated in my last post - PTS was never an option this is also a bitch coming up to 2. A week of bicarb with her food and she's back to going out in the yard with her kennel mate and one of my dogs with no problems. Which I am very pleased about as we have 2 BIG crossbred puppies in the house too and I really thought once she'd realised they were there she might take a downhill turn again.

Lara, I didnt miss your point at all, I simply commented that you couldnt compare the two instances. I think for the sake of the board, it would be best if you and I didnt discuss this topic anymore, lets just agree to disagree on this one :)

Fine by me Philipa :)......Enough said!

I feel very sorry for the lady on the "other board" as you all put it. We were not there to see what really happended. And I have to say that on the "other board" the people there are very very friendly and very supportive to each other. Now I am not saying we are not on this board far from it at times. But it was a horrible decision to make and she had done the right thing for her circamstances. Well done to those who felt they could have offered a home to the dog but life is not like that all the time. Putting a dog ts is not easy decision to make anyway. Lets all stay supportive and friendly.

Julieann

I wonder if you all realise the upset some of you have caused this lady?

Julieann

Julie look to the person who told her. Jeanne would have been none the wiser if they hadn't said anything. Don't blame us for having a different opinion.

Bec I am not blaming you but you did get close to the knuckle and at times were not nice. The lady did not even post on this site for advice.
Don't want to get in to another arguement here all I want to say is lets just be nice to each other and show a bit of respect for each other? I know its hard at times when a topic does really get under our skins. Kind regards Julieann

Dear Bec have emailed you to say that I am sorry if I have offended you in my reply's on this subject. I really don't mean to. None of us can agree all the time I know that. I hope you are not to cheesed off with me!!?

Julieann

Have e-mailled you a reply. Its not a problem takes a lot more than that to offend!

Hi Bec yes I can imagine! But as I was saying last night even though I like to say what I feel I really hate upseting the apple cart so to speak! But thanks anyway.

Julieann

Hi

I am new to this board. I am a member of the 'other' board that everyone is talking about and have followed this thread there.

Firstly, not all the facts have been dispayed here and it is unfair to make any judgement without all the facts being known. Whoever dreamed up the phantom pregnancy? The vet confirmed that this dog did not have a phantom pregnancy. Jeanne posted on the other board for support not criticism, and thankfully we know her well enough and possess all the facts to support her and not condemn her. Of course I love dogs and hate the thought of a young and healthy dog PTS, but Jeanne had NO choice, it took guts to do what she did and I totally support and respect her for it. Nobody enters this decision lightly. And who mentioned a decision being made within 48 hours?? This was NOT the case.
Who knows what could have happened next? we are not talking about a yorkie here.

Jeanne did not post here and in my opinion Phillipa did not have the right to bring this to another board for Jeanne to be criticised by others. I know Phillipa didn't criticise her directly, but surely knew what sort of response it would get - particularly as important 'facts' were left out. Of course we all have the right to our own opinions and I enjoy reading about differing opinions, but in this delicate situation, it is irrelevant and unnessary to criticise, that was not the intention when Jeanne posted on PP.

It is difficult enough for her. I ask that you all have compassion and a conscience and let that poor dog rest in peace, and enable Jeanne to be able to grieve without added guilt.