Hi,

A friend has asked my opinion of this food.

I know nothing about it can anyone help please.

Thank you.

Ingredients:
Wheat, poultry, maize, wheatfeed, poultry digest, poultry fat, whey powder, soya oil, yeast, mixed herbs, extract of New Zealand green-lipped mussel, yucca extract, minerals, trace elements and vitamins, including zinc chelate. With EEC permitted antioxidants.

moisture <9.00%
Oil 10.00%
Protein 20.00%

I would strongly recommend you tell your friend not to feed this food.It would be cheaper for her to whip up a bowl of wheat,maize and soya (ALL high allergy,poorly digestable grains),sprinkle a small amount of chicken over the top and give a multi vitamin :rolleyes: The fat content is to low also.

I think my dogs would have rather liked those ingredients :) and, like most dogs, they have had any allergies so no worries on that score.  If I was your friend, Scarlettwynter, and I had a notion to feed this I would give it a go and see how they went on after all, all UK foods are perfectly fit for purpose.

I think the best thing to remember is that dogs are carnivors and despite what some people may think, thrive on meat based diets. Feeding them a diet of predominately grains is not condusive to good health. The ONLY reason alot of pet foods have loads of grains is because it is cheaper for the manufacture than adding real meat,and they rely on the fact that dogs can survive on just about anything :rolleyes:

Whatever the reason for the manufacturers offering grains many owners will choose them because they suit their dogs.  Far from being difficult to digest grain based foods have been recommended by vets for decades as suitable for sensitive digestions and relied upon by many.  I would say dogs are omnivores, demonstrably capable of thriving on a variety of protein sources.

>grain based foods have been recommended by vets for decades as suitable for sensitive digestions

None of the vets who i have spoken with who's main interests lie in animal nutrition have ever prescribed to this way of thinking

Ofcourse,if you visit a vet who stocks science plan etc you may get a different point of view ;) And as i have always said,mainstream vets would not be my first port of call when it comes to nutritional advice for my pets.
Afterall i wouldnt see my GP for nutritional advice or problems,he would refer me to a specialist in that field,or i would seek out a human nutritionist myself.

I would certainly expect my GP to have a very good overview of nutrition and its relationship to anatomy, physiology and aetiology.  He may well pass me over to a dietician to help me devise a more suitable diet if I required it but I would expect it to be a rather rare disorder before he referred me to a specialist in the field of nutrition, if there is such a thing.  I can't imagine the same could not be said of a vet and I would certainly rate them as a more immediate port of call that internet websites run by people with an interest in raking around the internet for more of exactly the same mind rather that applying any semblance of any real study skills.
Actually I was thinking more of Chappie as this is the one I have experience of but I am sure that Science Plan produce equally appropriate foods if a little pricer :) 
The OP has not mentioned any specific dietary needs though so, assuming there is none I can't see why they should not try this perfectly acceptable food or perhaps wait to hear from someone who has.

I think the reason that she wants to change is because this food has green lipped mussel in it.

She has 2 oldies with arthritis and a 5 year old with severe hip dysplasia. She bought a pup from me last year and at the time asked me what I fed my brood and I told her Nutro. She was having a few problems with James Wellbeloved so she decided to try Nutro and has been delighted with the results. I have told her that I still feed Nutro but add greenlipped mussel and Flexi-joints to the oldies diets and they are doing great.

When she asked me about this food one of my first thoughts was.... what is it  preserved with. I called her back and said that I would not choose to feed this to my bunch.

Thank you all so much for your help.

Worth looking at Autarky for similar price, as  I think it has better added ingredients re herbs and a more natural preservative.

Arden Grange add supplements for joints in their ranges too, more expenscie but pretty reasonable for a higher quality feed to the Gilpa.

Yes, I liked the look of those Green Lipped Mussels :)  my old Dandie seemed to succeed in coping with her arthritis for many years using them.  The preservatives are ones that it has been agreed Europe wide are perfectly safe and of course preservatives do just that, keep the food and the additives in tip top condition so, personally, I would not worry about that.

Good advice. Gilpa is one of the 'cheap and cheerful' range that can cause tummy upsets and allergies, with goodness only knows what inside it. may be legal, but would you want to feed it your dogs.......:rolleyes:

Hope she finds a food to suit!

>with goodness only knows what inside it.

Ktee has listed the ingredients :)  The OP has not mentioned any allergies.

She certainly has....YUCK!!!!!!! Actually I know people who have used this and what comes out the other end .......YUCK again.......:rolleyes:

Where did I say the OP mentioned allergies? This is the type of food, with all its rubbish inside and little if any real food, that is more likely to give an allergy. So best to find a better food, with more natural contents raher than the muck that goes in.

Food may well be passed as safe to feed, much like our own processed food. Does that make it a good, well balanced diet? Dont think so...........If you don't like eating this sort of stuff yourself, why give it the dog?

It looks like real food to me, it's basically wheat and meat, what is unnatural about that? I don't understand this concept of giving an allergy I'm afraid.  If the dog is not allergic to any of the ingredients eating them will not make him so.
It not only has to be passed as safe our laws require it to be fit for purpose, which as it is a complete food yes, it does have to be balanced and again I can't see anything to suggest it isn't.  I don't have any problem with processing food, cooking is processing.  If you are meaning to compare it to the human foods that are processed and no longer have the requisite fibre for instance, they I think you need to remember these are not sold as complete diets and are not intended to fit the complete needs of a human as their diets do.
Personally, I would not eat half of what my dogs eat and enjoy :)

Its the quantities that can cause problems, together with the artificial additives that can cause allergies. You don't know if the dog will become allergic to it until it is fed, which is why i say the potential is there. as to meat content, that can be exceptionally low and not meat as we think of it, as in our joints, but the scrappy byproducts and in such small quantities to be almost non existant. Some dogs are allergic to wheat, cereals etc, but until you feed it you don't know how your dog will react long term. there are an awful lot of people who have 'cured' skin and tummy problems by changing from these low quality foods.

When talking about human foods, I mean the ready meals which are full of fat and salt, the chicken nuggets, the turkey swizler type of food, up to the Mand S food... I can see no difference to them and the low quality dog processed food. yes, the dogs can live on them, they won't starve, unless they refuse to eat them or have severe digestive problems, but what you put in is what you get out, and lifetime good health and fitness is what I would want, with next to no vet fees. as a matter of interst, what food do your dogs get? Most on here have stated their choice of food, I seem to have missed yours?

Katee has on many occasions given links and facts that show exactly what many of the cheaper, low quality processed dog foods are made up from, and its quite disgusting. far worse than a bin raid or a long dead rabbit. No, I too would not eat some of the things my dogs enjoy, but then I'm not partial to RMB, or raw stinky leftovers, but if given a choice of a bowl of hearty meat and biscuits, or a bowl of dry cearal filled nuggets, I know which mine would relish. After reading Katees post about these foods my old lady no longer eats bakers, I just couldn't give it to her. She now has three small meals a day, of meat and a tiny amount of pure wholemeal biscuit, and is doing well, no tummy grumbles. So thanks katee.

leftovers

I LOVE last night's Indian! :D

:D :D....yep, so do the dogs, I just hate picking up after them........

I understand some dogs may be allergic to certain additives, although causing them remains obscure to me, but I have never personally known one and as most dogs happily eat them it seems a reasonable bet to trial any food that has them.  The same with wheat products, never had a dog with a problem with it, never met one off the internet, in fact it appears in products recommended for sensitive digestions, I note your has no difficulties with wholemeal biscuit :).
Don't have any problem with the meat not be similar to the sort of steak or joint we might choose, my dogs don't care and what matters to me is the nutritional value not which bit of anatomy it comes from or whether it came away all in one piece.
The difference in complete food for dogs and convenience foods for humans is their purpose.  The dog population is as long lived as it ever was so it follows that whatever other factors are contributing to the modern dogs good health these popular foods are not detracting from it. 
I have used Beta for several years now.  Of my most recent two dogs, who have been fed this for most of their lives, one lived to almost 16 and my remaining one is approaching 13 which seems like a reasonable life span to me.
Ktee does post losts of links, many of which I have seen before, they tend to do the rounds :) but my first check is always on the authors credentials I am afraid which generally leads me to read little further.  One memorable ladies qualifications were in the psychic field :)

If I remember rightly the meat content is only around 15%, rather low.  You can do better at the same price.

If a higher meat content is what you want :)  When I first joined the internet and read all the stuff that pours out of it I thought I must try these meat lead foods but found it did not suit mine at all, one had upsets and they both suffered constipation.  It's the food that suits your dog that is the best :)

>I think the reason that she wants to change is because this food has green lipped mussel in it.

It is so far down the list ,and as with most other supps added to commercial foods it would be in miniscule amounts,not in therapeutic levels,and after all the grains aggravate these dogs arthritis (arthritic dogs should avoid grains as much as possible),your friend will need an industrial strength supplement :(

My dogs do well on anything they can drag from the rubbish bin and smelly slippers.

Out of interest Ktee what do youthink of Autarky?????????
Lea :)

>Out of interest Ktee what do youthink of Autarky

I think it's one of the better  foods around.I like it better than JWB.

Thankyou, as its one of the cheaper food aroud, @ £15 a bag so you dont have to feed your dog very expensive food to feed then good food :D
Lea :)

You certainly do not, Lea :)

This is true Lea, but not all the cheaper foods are anywhere near as good as Autarky.

And that Gilpa is £12 for a 15kg sack,what a complete and utter rip off!

>but not all the cheaper foods are anywhere near as good as Autarky.

That's right..Most times a good quality food can 'usually' be judged by it's price tag.You cant make a food with top quality ingredients and then sell it for bargain prices,the price usually reflects the quality of ingredients used.Alot of pet owners,unfortunately, choose their pets food purely on price,and pet food manu's know this,so to accomodate they need to source the cheapest ingredients to sell the cheapest foods...

get real its all about packaging and name!! we just gave a trial to a pro plan food aimed specifically at danes the 8th ingredient was meat lol i can bet my life it will be marketed at the £45 mark which is just diabolicle for what it was!!!

katee and mygirl both have valid points here. Some of the more expensive foods are a rip off, and sold on their 'name' rather than the quality of what goes in them. Some being no better than Gilpa, Dr Johns etc. But high quality food does come with a price tag to cover the cost of whats in there, so really its also looking at the ingrediants list to make your final decision.

A brand often sold at the Vets I would put in this class.

Just look at Burns , I think the price is terrible for it.

>Just look at Burns , I think the price is terrible for it.

I agree.. It is mostly rice, obviously with very little meat judging by the low protein content. Aswell as the protein, the fat content is also dangerously low for the average healthy dog. I would only use it for a short amount of time, and only if i had a very overweight dog that nothing else worked for. Although burns is leaps and bounds ahead of the average "lite" diets available.

>pro plan food aimed specifically at danes the 8th ingredient was meat

So you're saying that the first 7 ingredients of this pro plan is grains,no meat until the 8th ingredient???

>get real its all about packaging and name!!

yep i agree.For the big name,big advertising foods,you are simply paying for a name where the ingredients sorely lack,such as hills,purina,nutro etc.

>At the end of the day dogs dont live aslong as humans after adult hood (thinking as we do with giant breeds we are careful the 1st 12months) after that they get what they want to eat...

What if all they "wanted to eat" was bread and eggs,would you allow that too? What they want to eat,does not necessarily correlate in to a healthy diet..That part is up to us,it is our responsibility to give them the most species appropriate ingredients as we can,and because they dont 'live as long as humans' it is even more essential we give them a healthy diet from the start.Feeding them these cheap and cheerful foods from the get go is starting them off behind the eight ball from the very beginning IMHO.

Ktee, do you work your dogs?? I was suprised when I saw you had Borders , I for some reasons thought you had huge working dogs.. :-)

>Ktee, do you work your dogs?? I was suprised when I saw you had Borders , I for some reasons thought you had huge working dogs..

No I don't work my dogs. What made you think i had huge working dogs? :)

I don't know just that you seem so concerned about the high meat protein content and fat for some reason I thought you had a large breed :-) nothing sinster. :-)

I think Autarky is £11-12 at Costco if you happen to be a member Lea.

Lea it's also cheaper at Costco!!! I joined just so I could buy Autarky there! I used to feed Nutro too, but found it really expensive with 3 giants on it! Also found Autarky large bags difficult to source locally, maybe you have a Costco near you? Even taking into account the joining fee for Costco it still works out cheaper. All the best, Dawn

Added to say...sorry didn't know your post was there Lori! :D

No problem Dawn as I wasn't sure so you just confirmed things. :-D

Nope no Costco near here!!!!!
It did used to be £13 a bag, but went up about 2 months ago!!!!!
Lea :)

I pay £14.50 at the Horse feed merchant.  My oldest is on it,a dn at teh moment the two middle one (3 1/2 and 7) are having it ahlf and half with Arden Grange Prestige which is waht 4 1/2 month old pup is on.  This way I only need two different bags of food for 3 different levels of nutrition. 

It is only an extract of the oil that is given so hardly large amounts required :).  My Dandie lived to over 15 on her "grainy" food and green lipped mussels with some stronger medication in the final year.  It was her heart that got her in the end not the arthritis so the diet does not seem to have contributed much to her downfall :)

I'd tell her to stick with Nutro - Gilpa isn't even comparable with Nutro - it's like asking what's the difference between Tesco value bread & their Finest organic grain enriched wholemeal loaves!  ;)   She could go to Holland & Barrett and pick up GLM probably in their ongoing sales and give it to her dog as a supplement in a quantity that was far more beneficial to the dog.

I agree this is not the only way and may not even be the best way of getting Green Lipped Mussel extract but I can see nothing about the ingredients of this food that would not make it a perfectly good one it may not compare with Tescoes Finest organic grain enriched wholemeal loaves but then you don't need to buy anything as fancy as that to get the benefits of an wholemeal loaf do you.  Nor do I think the analogy of the Value Bread quite fits either although I suppose they are both fit for purpose, this as a complete dog food and Value Bread to satisfy pasty children and keep their sandwich fillings in one place :)

You don't know much about bread Isabel ;)

BUT I totally agree with you, feeding lower quality dog food will be the same as giving pasty kids value white bread. Because of poor nutrition and cheap ready meals, the kids are poor and pasty, just like dogs (especially young ones) would be if fed this cheap rubbish complete. They would also, like the kids, become more liable to hyperactivity and allergies because of all the 'safe' but totally unnatural contents. As the white bread is inferior, so is the complete dog food.

I think you need to read what I said again.  The only comparison I can see is that they are each fit for their seperate purposes.  Cheap white bread is not intended as a complete diet.

No but brown bread with roughage in it has far more goodness for bowel movements than white bread and in a society where bowel cancer is on the increase because of the commercialised Westernised diet, I can see it being a good comparison!  :D

Of course it has Christine but you don't need to buy Tescos Finest organic to get that benefit.  Any basic, wholemeal I think you mean rather than brown which only has to be brown coloured , will serve the purpose entirely satisfactorily.

If your friends dogs are fine on what they are on at the moment I would leave them on that.

Also most senior dog foods contain glucosmine for the joints, as the dogs are old enough they should be fine on most senior foods. :)

The other option is to add in green-lipped mussle or other joint helping supplement