Ok bit of advice needed here i think - sorry this may take some time...
A few years ago i approached a top breeder for a puppy to show, and was sold a bitch.  She did not turn out good enough quality to do any big winning but is a nice bitch and very well bred.  A couple of years later same breeder gave me another dog in partnership who is now finished.   I was asked by the breeder who is nearing retirment if i would become a partner in the kennel and take it on after breeder retires.  I was honoured and accepted.  Shortly after this we took a joint interest in the affix (i paid the fees) and the original bitch i had went into parnership.  The bitch was mated to breeders stud dog and had 3 pups.  Breeder came to evaluate the litter at 9 weeks and told me to sell them all they were pets, so i did. As time went on it became clear to me that the parnership was not going to work as things we agreed were then changed without any discussion  etc etc, so i told breeder that i did not think they were ready to share the kennel and the decisions, and that i could not accept a partnership without equality.  That was 6 months ago.  Breeder has now asked for £500 stud fee for the litter i had over 18 months ago... My bitch is still in co-ownership and so i cannot breed her again myself (not really bothered about this as i don't feel she is good ebnough to breed and i have since got something much better) but breeder has not offered to sign her back.  The stud dog was not a dog i wanted to use (i had a better male at home).
Question is 'what would you lot do?'
In my veiw it was a litter from a bitch breeder co owned from a litter breeder co bred, to a stud dog breeder owned and three pups is barely a litter.  Also breeder would have kept the best pup if there had been something there!
Edit to say - i paid all costs for this litter including travel to stud dog 700 miles, and vet fees etc. Plus time off work to raise litter etc etc.
PS i have an import male who i could offer stud in return but morally should i?

Ooh Sharon, this is terrible, but being in that same breed myself I actually know who you are talking about.

I think in the circumstances I would refuse to pay the stud fee as the litter was all in joint anyway and you had all the financial burden.  Threaten to give the person a bill for their half of the breeding costs, and call it a day. I'd allow the affix maintainence to lapse and get out of there ASAP. I know how historically important that affix is and how flattered you must have felt, but peace of mind is worth so much more.

Dawn R.

I would think as you both owned the bitch then you should both have paid half the stud fee, and half the expenses of the litter and shared any profit, which I doubt there would have been in such a small litter, so she might owe you money.   I am assuming the stud dog was purely hers?

What was put in writing about the partnership and how expenses and stud fees puppy sales would be shared?

I suggest that you get out all your contracts and documents regarding this partnership and read through them with a fine tooth comb to see whether everything was split down the middle with regards to the partnership etc.

I agree with Brainless that it should all be fine as it is, you acted as partners at the time and there seems not to have been any metion of fees at the time of the mating, (was there?) and it is unfair of her to take this attitude and now ask for money.

Check your contracts though and especially the small print, she may well have had some clauses added with regards to the partnership failing.

I too agree with Brainless.

But, do you think that they would agree to sign over your bitch to you in exchange for the stud fee?

If so, id be inclined to do that. Pay the fee, get the bitch back into your name and call it a day.

Hi There was nothing ever in writing about anything, it was all under gentlemans agreement, which was fine as i trusted this person.
Legally i am under no obligation to pay anything and to be honest i am happy to say that, i'm not sure i even want this person as a friend anymore and i have on several occassions took on the chin things which have been said, very unjustly i may add and tried to remain friendly... However, i do wish to stay in the breed and i don't want to alienate myself from everyone, but at the same time i will not be bullied.
I just want to know what someone with another perspective thinks.

Dawn, you are right i was very flattered, and still am but sadly with what happened i was used as a scapegoat and blamed for something completely out of my control.  Sometimes people just need to accept that it might be their own fault and perhaps they are in the wrong instead of trying to find someone else to blame... It is all very sad...

So if i don't pay the money should i offer services of my own dog or just say forget it, also do i insist that my bitch is signed back into my name, this is a bitch i payed full price for 4 years ago.  I want to be firm but fair - or at least try to be, what do you guys think?

Snowallen, having already paid £500 for this bitch originally i feel a bit agrieved in paying ANOTHER £500 for her now.

No Sharon I would neither pay the stud fee nor would I offer the sevice of my own dog. If the matter was persued I would simply prepare a bill for a half share of the breeding costs and counter attack with that, plain and simple. If you don't wish to breed from this bitch in the future then I'd not even concern myself with who's name she's registered in. I'm in a similar although not identical situation myself.

My advice is cut your losses and dump this person.

Dawn R.

To be honest the original affix holder is skating on very thin ice.  If you had a seperate interest in the affix it might be different but as you have a joint interest, does that not mean that all pups bred under that affix will be bred by you both?  If she starts making unreasonable demands are you not well within your rights to refuse to register any future pups under what is now your affix too?! 

However I do agree that if any written contracts exist they should be gone over with a fine toothed comb in case there's anything in there which would mean she is in the right.  If there's nothing there then, personally, I'd talk calmly with her and explain your feelings on the matter. Maybe then it will be time to call it a day as far as the affix partnership is concerned.

Sorry it's all gone pear shaped - it's a shame when one side of a partnership becomes unreasonable.

Debs

Hi
Breeder retained separate interest in addition to the joint one.  Joint one is now lapsed as i did not renew it, i have had my own affix for a number of years and am very happy with it, also have homebred champions in another breed with this affix.

Just want to know what every one thinks the moral issues are?
Legally i know where i stand

Thanks

Just re-read your post.

You both co-own the bitch,
You both co-own the Affix, (she needs to pay half the yearly fee that you have been paying)
Breeder owns the stud dog, (therefore she can charge for him)
Stud mated with co-owned bitch, (therefore both co-owners pay for him £250 each ;-))
Both co-owners pay towards the breeding expenses, (you need to re-coup for these charges)
Litter born, (profit should be split between both co-owners)

If you kept the profit from the litter, then yes it would be fair to pay her the stud fee to balance things out.

With regards to the affix if it were one she had before you were on the scene that is well known in all honesty I would let her have it and continue the payments afterwards, after all you have only shared one bitch together and that particular affix may have taken years to build up a good reputation it should be passed on to whoever takes over her dogs once retired. IMO I would think it mean spirited she must have really thought a lot of you at the time to allow you to take over the payments and have control of it, she must have really thought you would be her successor.

I would also re-think the situation, is she far from retirement? Is it not worth hanging on and just having a really good showdown about your grievances, if you are to take over a well established kennel and Affix it seems a lot to throw away over character clashes which she may well have learnt from, I get the impression she really trusted you to carry on her good work.

I agree in principal with everything you said re costs, except, i neither wanted to breed from this bitch nor would have used breeders dog, i had my own dog to use, breeder decided to use this stud dog to see what he could produce (new import).  Also you can be sure breeder would have taken best pup if they were good enough.

Also partnership has disolved through breeders actions and not mine, though i am thankfull i found out before i got in too deep...

As for taking on the affix, as i said i do have my own though not nearly as prestigious, BUT i also have strong veiws and opinions, which is probably one of the reasons i was asked in the first place... i will not be used in this way, i am all for equal partnerships but not dictatorships. 

I have my own dogs and my own plans for the future and while i would like to keep amicable relations with this person i truly believe that on recent performance that even if i PAID the money, breeder would NEVER talk to me again (having got what they want) and i would never get my bitch signed over.. (as i said not too worried about this but it would be a nice gesture, i have mentioned it but have been ignored every time...)

(((i neither wanted to breed from this bitch nor would have used breeders dog, i had my own dog to use, breeder decided to use this stud dog to see what he could produce (new import).  Also you can be sure breeder would have taken best pup if they )))

Sharon, I can feel where your coming from and I would be thinking exactly the same, but legally all that would ever be said in court is that no-one forced you to do any of these things, no-one put a gun to your head, you are an adult and you went along with the decisions you can't use any of this as argument, sorry but you can't. :-( Also what she would have done if there had been a good pup can't be spoken of, as it never happend.

You can only go by facts and contracts, feelings just don't come into anything like this, and feelings are not taken into consideration by any law just facts.

The bitch should be signed back over to you, I would use your stake in the Affix as le-way for this, I personally would fight tooth and nail for complete ownership of my bitch back and not let that go.

Sit down, write out every single thing you have paid clearly, (no feelings, what's or if's involved) just plain simple figures show them the listing and then work out a compromise.