I am so angry.  I've just been wandering about on the internet - visiting a few doggy sites and puppy sales sites and have just put two and two together.  Some ******* people have got an elderly dog advertised for sale, saying their circumstances have changed and they can't give him the attention any more - but they can keep a bitch puppy from the litter they''ve just bred.  Poor old dog - I hope he finds some people who will value him.

Grr, with me if anyone had to go it would be last in first out.

I agree reading between the lines some people have no hearts.

some people don't deserve dogs, it makes me really angry and very upset

MOG thats awful :(
so sad

Have had the same thing. Someone (in a different gundog breed) (show people)!!!, approached me and told me that due to the husband having to go into hospital for an operation and her not being too well then they were having to find a new home for one of their older dogs and if I heard of anyone looking, then put them on to them. Found out in the next few days that they had booked a new puppy!!!!!

I just dont understand why people do this.... I love my oldies.. they are the girls which have given me what I have now.... retired in comfort... and proud to bits with them.. God forbid my circs ever change.. but as with Barbara.. last in 1st out... my oldies are with me to the end....

Never read the cats for sale websites because it routinely goes on & your BP will go up.  Queens having one or 2 litters (Plus!), spayed and looking for a new home whilst home bred kitten gets run on or a new kitten is bought it.   And from the masses of cat breeders out there I'd say only about 25-30% show, the rest are out just to breed kittens for the public.

Kay, you may be interested to know it was someone in your breed. I was appalled.

Why does that not surprise me Alison
feel free to PM me in confidence....

Must say I really don't understand people who sell the old to get a new puppy :( wether honest about their intentions or not!  There's no-way I cold even think about rehoming our old retired boys!  They don't need a "retirement home" has I've heard it called before!  There's a plenty good enough sofa for them here they've had from when they first came to us!!!

"A dog is for life, not just for the showring/breeding" :(

Last in first out for me too. To be honest I don't actually like pups - they're lots of work and it takes till they're 3 or 4 before they're the way I want them. The older the dogs get the more attached to them I get :)

I prefer the oldies to pups too :)  I'm not going to critisise those that carefully place show and ex breeding stock, still in their prime, into a final domestic set up as I know quite a few in my breed do.  If they can part with them I can't see it doing the dogs any harm, they are an adaptable breed and don't seem to pine with new people to love.  It is just the underhand shifting of elderly animals that I find very unpalatable.

> I'm not going to critisise those that carefully place show and ex breeding stock, still in their prime, into a final domestic set up as I know quite a few in my breed do

Personally, I can't see any reason to rehome such dogs UNLESS there is a jolly good reason ie friction between dogs :(

Daisy

You have just said yourself moving from a kennel life to a domestic one can benefit a dog :) 
Others I know do have their dogs in the house but this can mean, for some at least, a limitation on numbers.  Some of the breeders I know that routinely do this have contributed significantly to the breed with very successful show dogs over a great many years, their ability to do that may have been restricted if their breeding talents had been limited by the need to wait for space in a suburban home.  As I say, it's not for me but I don't see I can critisise when I see no harm done. 

> You have just said yourself moving from a kennel life to a domestic one can benefit a dog

But then that would be admitting that the kennel life was not the best for the dog :) As others have said, the attachment to the dog grows stronger with the years (as it does with human children/partners :D ). How can anyone think it would be better rehoming the dog ? Surely giving ones dog the best that can be provided should be the main concern and if the owners show/breeding career means that the dog isn't getting the best, then perhaps something is going wrong somewhere ??? :(

Daisy

People rehome dogs for very many reasons, even when they truly love the dog, but realise that someone else can give the dog a better life than they can. Some dogs are happier being 'only' dogs rather than a member of a group. Rehoming can be the most unselfish thing to do. I'd hate to be in that position though.

I can understand where you're coming from Daisy, but people don't all think the same.  When I had to rehome most of my dogs due to my marriage breakup (rehoming them was the best thing for THEM not for me) I kept my three oldies and one which had confidence problems, all the young current show dogs went to friends and people I knew thankfully.

But there are people who view the breeding and showing of dogs differently.  A lot of top showing kennels have a fair number of dogs.  They have a couple of cherished oldies that live in the house with them and they'd never dream of rehoming them.  However, IMO you cannot have that special bond with kenneled dogs that we have with our house dogs.  They are with us all the time and we get to know all their little habits and characters in depth.  I, personally, couldn't keep mine in kennels but I can see that when a kenneled dog has finished it's showing or breeding career, it IS better off being homed to live out it's days in the manner that we keep ours :)  This isn't a new thing, it's been done for years and years.  Working dogs are the same too.  I know many farm collies who are rehomed once their working days are over.  I can't criticise people for having different views than I do - the kenneled show dogs aren't suffering and it's not cruel - just different to how we'd keep ours.

Debs

But there are people who view the breeding and showing of dogs differently

So do these breeders - who are looking for purchasers to commit to a lifetime's care for the dogs they have bred - not think that it is being rather hypercritical to then rehome their own dogs when they are no longer required for showing/breeding? It wouldn't appear to be a very good example IMHO.

>It wouldn't appear to be a very good example IMHO.

If a pet home was likely to take this on as an example, ie you keep a dog just for a pet for 2/3 years and then rehome it, you haven't chosen your pet home that well in the first place :)
I don't see any hypocracy because I really can't see any relationship between the two lives.

I don't see any hypocracy because I really can't see any relationship between the two lives.

Just because there are differing reasons for having a dog I can't really see why there should be any difference in the way they are treated. I can't see any justification for  an owner  wanting to get rid of their dog just because it has passed it's prime and is no longer able to do the things it did when it was younger.

Yes there definitely are times when an owner has no option but to rehome their dog but outliving it's usefulness is not a reason I find palatable.

If a pet home was likely to take this on as an example, ie you keep a dog just for a pet for 2/3 years and then rehome it, you haven't chosen your pet home that well in the first place

I think I would take this view when choosing a breeder to buy from as well - if they weren't prepared to keep their oldies I would not have researched the source of my puppy that well either and would rather go to a breeder whose life time commitment to their dogs meant just that :)

>I can't see any justification for  an owner  wanting to get rid of their dog just because it has passed it's prime

No I couldn't either :) but if you read through the thread you will see several reasons given during the course of the discussion why a breeder might do this and none of them are just to get rid of a dog because it was passed it's prime.

In an ideal world there would only be reputable breeders (no commercial breeders or puppy farmers) whose bitches had only the pup the breeder wanted to keep to keep the line going and which grew up to fulfil all its promise and then at the age of 6 or so produced another single pup, so the breeder never had 'passengers' and never found herself overstocked.

Unfortunately we live in the real world, where things don't plan out like that, and sometimes circumstances mean that a dog - of any age - would benefit from leaving that home. Luckily most people in those circumstances rehome them, rather than put them to sleep, which is of course another alternative.

So do these breeders - who are looking for purchasers to commit to a lifetime's care for the dogs they have bred - not think that it is being rather hypercritical to then rehome their own dogs when they are no longer required for showing/breeding? It wouldn't appear to be a very good example IMHO

Harley, good point and I agree with you wholeheartedly!

I can understand what you are saying :) :) As I have no interest in breeding or showing, my dogs are purely pets/companions/members of the family, so I have always found it difficult to understand how people can rehome a dog just to make way for another. I quite understand why dogs are rehomed due to frictions/family circumstances etc etc :) :)

Daisy

>but I can see that when a kenneled dog has finished it's showing or breeding career, it IS better off being homed to live out it's days in the manner that we keep ours

I agree. I would much rather see a breeder move on a kenneled dog to a real home,then live out it's life in a kennel :( In this instance,for sure the dog IS better off being rehomed.

Also some older breeders find this is the only way they can continue to contribute to their breed.

Lack of house room could also mean that someone successfully breeding any of the threatened breeds could not continue contributing to their survival.
But even if it has no higher aim that to pursue a hobby in showing and breeding I think we have to appreciate that we all have different ideas about what is an acceptable life with dogs.  I could never buy a dog and then leave it alone all day for instance but others find this perfectly OK.  I think when there is no obvious harm being done we just have to accept others ways.

I agree. Older dogs are much nicer than pups, whose only advantage is that they're a blank canvas that hasn't been messed around with by someone else.

If a dog has lived in a kennel for its youth then a retirement home in its senior years might be the best thing that's happened to it.

> If a dog has lived in a kennel for its youth then a retirement home in its senior years might be the best thing that's happened to it

:) Yes - they might actually be doing the dog a favour :)

Daisy

Can't do it.  The only way I could consider letting a dog go would be if there was friction, otherwise they stay with me for the whole of their natural lifespan. My dogs are my family.

Wow that is just how I feel.  I find pups sweet amusing, and that optimism that they will turn out well, and having to wait and see if they do is what is so interesting, but can't understand how people say "I wish they could always stay like that"  No way.

Mind you I often test potential puppy owners by seeing how long it takes them to ask to see the pups.  Those who spend ages fussing the girls asking questions, and only ask about the pups as an afterthought get my vote.

I agree Barbara. I happen to have a litter of pups at the moment and people have to run the gauntlet of my girls before they see the pups. That sorts out the wrong ones.

I always spend time interviewing prospective owners with my adults before they get even a peep at the puppies too. Their reaction to the adults helps me decide if they're going to get a pup.

I agree too. The best buyers are those being more, or a least AS, interested in the adults and not just the pups. After all, the pups will grow up to BE like the adults.

Oh give me a grown up golden any day, yes pups are beautiful and cute, but give me a dog with their adult personality - there is something about an adult dog that pups just don't seem to have - not just size but a sort of knowingness about them.  Well I think Jasper is almost there :D :D :D  

Oh me too! Pups are cute but oh how nice it is when you have a fully mature dog that really knows you and you know him/her, well trained and easy -and the older they get, the closer you get! I have a 7 year old, an 11 year old and a 12 year old and they get more special for each day.

i have to say i agree with rehoming in certain circumstances. one of my girls was from a show kennel that after she mum had her alloted 6 litters was then found a 'pet' home hopefully for life. i think they are then called x breeding bitches, there are a lot on the many tears site. surely this is better than staying kenneled for life?

Six litters!!!!  That seems more like someone callously getting maximum return out of a bitch at least cost (puppy farmer), not a show/working kennel re-homing for the dog to have a retirement spoiled rotten.

I don't know ANY reputable breeder that would allow their bitch to have six litters! And when they stop breeding from them, they become house pets, they don't stay kennelled. The Many Tears site are dogs from puppy farms !!

Quite, and those bitches haven't been kept as a pet, a show dog a working=king dog or anything other than a puppy machine.

Thats so sad! I'm sat here nearly in tears about how horrid and heartless some people are. I'm hoping to reduce my hours once i finish maternity leave and when the sprog is older want to get an older cav to join my 2 babies. It seems so unfair to kick out the oldest, its like kicking out your granny! Going to put hormones in check and pull myself together!

I couldn't begin to think about rehoming one of my bitches, especially if they have produced me a litter at some time in their lives. They have done me proud and I would want to do them proud by ensuring they stay with me. However, I could rehome if there was conflict in the ranks. Luckily I have never had to do this but I could see the sense in it. The thing is my dogs live with me (not in kennels or runs) they are my constant companions.

Not something I could do personally, seems sort of ungrateful really, though I suppose I might one day be able to run on a puppy and home it if it didn't meet my expectations. 

Have never found myself able to do it so far, just live with the also rans and hope to breed something better down the line, but then instant success isn't what it is about for me.

I can probably still achieve my breeding objectives by hopefully placing the most promising pups with others if I can't keep one myself.

Another aspect to this is that there are many people who want these dogs.  I received a call from someone who heard I had a litter and it was only when they came round to see that it became apparent they had come to look at the mother!  They had got there last two bitches in this way from a breeder and had assumed all breeders would part with their bitches after a litter :)  They were a very nice elderly couple and we chatted for a long time while they sat in my conservatory with Amber up on the sofa next to them loving the attention while we watched the puppies playing but they neither desired a puppy nor did I feel they could have managed one and of course I was not going to be parting with their mother.  Apart from them being too old for my personal criteria, he was in his eighties, I would have been happy to let them take her if I was in need of doing so and of course it would have been filling their need too.

Yep this is the occasion when one older breeder friend has allowed some of her dogs (champions too) to go to retirement homes, with people who have had many dogs from her in the past, but no longer want or can manage a puppy.

My dogs are in the house, but the breeder of my boy keeps his youngsters kenneled, with the oldies in the house.
They do rehome their dogs when there show/breeding career is over into pet homes, including their Champions, and I personally think that this is the best thing to do for their dogs.

Not sure it's something I could ever do, letting go a bitch who didn't come up to show standard was one of the hardest things I've ever had to do, and she was only 12 months.

The dogs here now will see their life out on my sofa