What is an acceptable price to pay for stud fees?

I believe it varies enormously between breeds from about half a puppies value to about a puppies value or possibly more in general terms.   Your Breed Club could probably advise what is the norm in your breed.

Thank you, the unrealistic puppy price in my breed is £1500. Sadly people are charging too much now!  I paid a realistic  £800 for my little girl, and she got a third at crufts, so is not of a poor quality by any means. She is a toy breed and unlikely to have more than three puppies on that reasoning, what would be an acceptable amount?

An acceptable amount would be the one you are willing to pay for the dog that you think would be the best choice for her.  People will ask what they will and if money is an issue breeding is not really a route to be taking as it can all too easily run away with your income :)

Oh no its not that money is an issue its more a case of people being greedy etc, I think that I have a very good bitch, Also advised by her breeder, and wish to look into a litter next year for the point of keeping one for myself and some for friends but as I wish not to end out of pocket as I wish not to over charge friends etc. I just wanted a realistic idea of what I should expect to pay.

Well, as I say, the Breed Club should be able to give you some guidance on the average but at the end of the day only you can decide if you are willing to pay whatever is asked for the dog of your choice. In my breed prices are not too silly so I cannot imagine being the position of choosing a dog and then not liking the price quoted :(

Thank you Isabel, its so sad for us having found a breed that we love and I have severe breathing dificulties with your average dog so am limited to breeds, We are so dissapointed by people breeding to make money and the only realistic way to have a second dog of the correct type and of good lines is to breed ourselves. We did not plan this when buying our little girl. but feel we have very little choice as the 'runners of the breed' are breeing away for the original type and charging for the privilage of owning this non specific type dogs i.e no longer toy lap dog types.

Funnily enough I was actually thinking of this earlier today when I came across a web-page you can advertise your dog for stud...
Huge difference you have to pay for the same service depending of the breed:rolleyes:
I think something over £1000 is a lot of money for a mating!! but so is the same amount of money for a puppy...
But at least the breeder will have the work of looking after and feeding the pups when all the costs for dog owner are the health tests if even those...
Obviously it costs if you show your dog etc but even so...

IMO anyone who needs to advertise there dog at stud shouldnt be offering it and anyone looking for a stud dog in those places shouldnt be breeding.

There's also the angle that responsible stud owners who advertise on those sites can advise the novice breeder in a sensible way rather than abandoning them to the pet owners who "think Freddie would be a great dad".

That's what I was just about to post JG - there seems to have been a recent movement for reputable breeders to advertise puppies and studs on some of the less reputable sites, on the logic that unless there is a superior option available - well reared, healthy dogs, that 'look right - the uninitiated buyer won't be any wiser.

I can kind of see the reasoning to be honest - but then, I've always been of the opinion that the vetting matters more than the source of the enquiry, as long as you have the patience to sort the wheat from the chaff.

M.

I know several very reputable breeders who advertise on those sites even when they don't have any puppies available just so that they can send any enquirers to the breed club puppy list.

I agree with you on that one JG.

I agree, we paid £400 for a champion, which is about £250 less than the price of a pup, and as she missed first time the repeat mating was no questions asked, it was free

Having puppies is a very expensive buisness, if you take all the price of equipment, plus the extra food for bitch and pups.
There is also the chance that she may need help during delivery. Out of hours c sections can cost you £800. 00
Then the KC reg. Plus your stud fee. I could go on. Be carefully why giving a price to friends, you my be out of pocket.

In my breed and many others it is the normal puppy price.

In my breed, it's a fair few hundred less than the price of a top quality pup.

Lisa

same as my breed Lisa.

In mine too it's generally substantially less.

In the Breeds where stud fees are less then the cost of a pup likely to be those breeds where stud dogs get a fair bit of use?

In my breed if a dog sired 20 litters in a 10 year period it would be quite considerable overuse, when you bear in mind that the total of litters bred a year rarely exceeds 20.

The potential stud owner will need to keep the eye certificates current and their dog available and may only ever have it used a few times in it's life.

There are champions in the breed that have missed the opportunity of being used as there were no suitable bitches available, and by the time the next generation were available the dog had lost interest/was to old.

Friends and I imported a dog, at no little cost with Quarantine etc.  he has been campaigned successfully with titles in several countries.

He has sired I think 7 litters in the UK and one abroad.  The oldest of these are just 3 years old, with two champions, several more RCC and JW winners.

We will never recoup the cost of importing him let alone is keep and show campaign.

If you look in the show catalogues there are enough of his offspring of both sexes in the ring to represent his genes, and now there are Grandchildren and the first of his Great Grandchildren born last year.   it would be wrong to want to use him much more than a couple of times a year.

Do you think that the average litter size of a breed has a bearing on the stud fee?  In my breed, the fee tends to be the price of a correctly marked puppy, and the average litter size is probably about 9 (that's my average litter size anyway!) - though only a proportion will be correctly marked.

In response to the comments about ethical breeders advertising on less than perfect sites, I must say that I have been thinking about doing just that for just the reasons mentions.  With the huge popularity of the internet, so many people use it rather than contact a breed club and - if a stud dog is advertised as having had all the breed's health checks, they think they are doing the right thing and using a good dog.  I have spoken with people who have done this in my breed - to their cost!

I must admit I have a breeder listing on most of the doggy sites, but don't actually advertise my litters, though anyone interested enough will visit my website adn contact me.

When the local free ads were still feee for pet adverts I used to advertise, adn ahve actually had 3 fantastic homes from this source.  You do find that you do have a lot more chaff than wheat in the enquiries you get, but it is up to the breeder to vet the potential owner no matter where they ahve come from.

Speaking for people looking for pups the majority of people who coem to our trainign classes ahve got their pup through a local advert in the paper or from the dogs home.  Now most of these are lovley people who want to do right by their dogs (it is why they coem to class), so they do deserve better than what they usually get.

I don't know about litter size, as our stud fee is the price of a pup and average litter size is probably 6.  I have had as many litters of four than I have had of Seven.

I know in Europe fees are often a small flat fee for the mating and then so much per pup.  In a small litter the breeder gains by this arrangement, but with a large litter the bitch owner has to pay out more.  As it is the bitch that accounts for the puppy numbers, this may not really be logical, and may be fair or not depending on your perspective.

My breed it is £400, there are some though that charge a handling fee of £250 and £50 per live pup after 10 days which I think is taking the Michael a little esp as the average for my breed is 9+ pups

What is the usual puppy price though.

In my breed that would make the stud fee for a litter of four £450 or litter of seven £550.  the latter figure is the stud fee as it stands now.

In your breed it would make the stud fee for 9 pups £650.

I wouldn't feel it excessive if the stud fee for an average litter was what a pup sold for, and woudl be thanking my lucky stars to be saving money on a small litter..

Hi ,

Across the board the average price for a well bred pup whose parents have the nec health tests, the pups sell for £600 - £650, the stud fees within the group stand on average at £400. A couple of breeders whose dogs have done no more winning than any other are charging this silly rate, it just makes for bad feeling across the breed, might add they don't get many bookings though apart from people with 'pet' bitches.

I know what you are saying regarding small litters but my breed rarely have small litters, I would rather pay a flat fee than be held to ransome. It may work well in breeds that have numerically small litters and would be beneficial to both parties, but if a bitch has 13 pups surviving after paying £250 add another £650 ontop it is a bit excessive and greedy of the stud dog owner.

Well your stud dog owners are not being greedy as if they took a pup instead of free they could do better than for the fee being charged once they sold it.

I have always thought the stud was worth the sale price of one of his pups.

Even a maiden stud would rate this in our breed though payment would wait until he was proven.

Agreed in principal what you are saying but I feel that 90 % of the stud dog owners in my breed charge £400 why should a minority take advantage ? Was talking to another person within the breed today about this and pup in exchange for stud, she said it is usual to (if you want it this way) to have pick of litter but to pay the extra on top of the stud fee (Extra £250). Swings and roundabouts really  as I think all breeds have different codes  regarding stud fees that they follow between them.

Why do you feel that people who charge more than £400 are taking advantage?  In a breed which has decent size litters (and certainly 9+ would qualify as a decent size litter), I would expect to pay the going price of a good quality puppy for the stud fee.  I would feel that was fair.  I think it is up to the stud dog owner to decide what they want to charge - and up to the owners of the bitches if they want to pay that amount.   (And I write this as someone who has both used other people's stud dogs and had my own as well)

Is it because the breed is popular so the sog will make quite a lot in stud fees compared to a lwss numerically strong breed?  I certainly think puppy price is only fair.

I'd rather pay a bit more for a dog which hasn't been used here, there and everywhere. 

Will have to agree to disagree on this one. I do not think it fair when 90% of stud dog owners of well know show, working stock charge £400 and  a few with nothing special dogs are taking advantage of 'pet'owners (data from BRS) by charging that exorbitant amount. Nobody within the breed are using these dogs so I suppose they feel justified by charging bitch pet owners this amount.

Anything up to the price of a puppy in most breeds would to be considered exhorbitant.  I don't see how anyone can see the price of one pup as being greedy especially in breeds that don't ahve large litters.

I have often only had four pups and still didn't think one pups price excessive, and I ahve only once had a litter larger than seven pups.

If on average it costs half the price of a pup to rear it, the breeder gets a lot more than the stud owner even after their expenses and work.

As I've already said, my breed tend to have large litters, but only a proportion will be correctly marked.  Once my dog sired a very small litter so I only charged part of the stud fee.  I know I didn't have to do this and the bitch owner didn't expect it (I believe the bitch determines the litter size anyway) but it felt like the right thing to do.

Hi,
Stud fees for my breed can be from £500.00 to as much as £800.00.
The average for a good line being £500.00
Puppies range from £750.00 to £850.00 again being good stock.
I think personally for my breed at present, being £500.00 stud fee
£800.00 per pup.
Regards
Denese

I agree, in my breed there is a stud dog who was reputedly used 50 times last year!!!! Nearly every other puppy you see is by him ....

Your breed like mine is a rare breed and stud fees are the same as a pup or slightly more.  The male import that I have is a Spanish Champion and his stud fee is £200 more than the normal stud fee.

Now with Pomeranian's we used a champion 2 years ago and paid £150 for him, hopefully his daughter will do well at a show this week!!  We paid £100 for his grandson recently who also did well in the show world and we are showing his 11 month old son on Sunday too!

Quite a difference then between our two breeds of £850!!

With the poms could it be that the low stud fee reflects the fact that you only get one or two pups in a litter?

In my breed, it's around a £250 stud fee at the moment, against around £650 for a puppy. Stud fee has risen fairly heftily of late though, and I would imagine the rise will continue. Don't suppose we'll get to the price of a puppy, but think we'll go a fair bit nearer.

M.

As the stud fees are so low compared to puppy price, what do you think historically is the reason?  Is it because litters are small (so sud fee an unfair proportion of rearing costs) or is it that studs are numerous so that a breeder can find cheaper and it keeps the price down?

I have always considered the price of a puppy in breeds with average litters of four or more perfectly fair to both parties, after all traditionally a pup was taken in many instances instead of stud fee.

To be honest, I've never given it much thought. Having an interest in other breeds where stud fees and puppy prices are more aligned, I find it quite entertaining that people think £250 is scandalous and suspect they have a shock coming to them as I would imagine it will continue to rise towards the puppy price. Until recently, fees were £100-£150 - the rise has been relatively steep, and is probably due to a few breeders with very popular stud dogs thinking it was time for a rise.

Not particularly small litters in our breed - although increasing trouble actually getting bitches in whelp, it seems. Plenty of studs available, but definite focus on some kennels and probably some dogs used a lot, more dogs used a bit, some barely or never used except by their own kennels.

Free return if no litter has been standard, although rumour has it that this is not always the case now.

M.

I certainly feel that if your asking for a stud fee that equal the cost of a pup then a free return or even a refund if two matings still produce nothing reasonable, with perhaps just a small part kept for time and trouble.

do you feel that people should ask a higher stud fee just because their dogs hip score is excellent and / or they are dna tested free from eye diseases etc?

or even because they have won a lot  etc  have FTCH, Sh CH, JW etc etc

To be honest if you are using a stud, just as you would from the bitch, then you would EXPECT them to have had all relevant health tests, if they hadn't then you shouldn't use them!!! The fee is the same that applies to any stud...so I can't see it should make any difference to the cost???

In my breed the stud fee is the same regardless of the wins or experience.

No dog can make a silk purse from a sows ear, and also some of the best stud dogs don't win as much as some who don't produce as well.

Seems right to me as that way the only thing influencing the bitch owner should be the suitability of the dog.