The barf/rmb debate is doing my head in.I am still not convinced that bones (yes even raw bones) are 100 per cent safe for dogs (apart from big solid marrow bones which they just grind away at) and the sad story of the poor lady that fed her dog raw mince still haunts me.  Like most owners I want the very best for my dogs (and cats) and I do use premium foods like JWB and Naturediet, but if anybody has any more info about raw feeding ...

If you do a search on CD there is loads of info

The thing is, NOTHING is 100% safe. Dogs can, and do, choke on kibble. Like you I wanted the very best food for my dogs and used to feed Naturediet, until the fiasco with obtaining it sent me towards the BARF route. I haven't looked back, the dogs love it.

Nothing in life is risk free.  Feed according to your beliefs and what you are happy with.

That is the question :)

Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them? To die: to sleep;
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to, 'tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish'd. To die, to sleep;
To sleep: perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub;
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause: there's the respect
That makes calamity of so long life;
For who would bear the whips and scorns of time,
The oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely,
The pangs of despised love, the law's delay,
The insolence of office and the spurns
That patient merit of the unworthy takes,
When he himself might his quietus make
With a bare bodkin? who would fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscover'd country from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus conscience does make cowards of us all;
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought,
And enterprises of great pith and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry,
And lose the name of action. - Soft you now!
The fair Ophelia! Nymph, in thy orisons
Be all my sins remember'd.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyway just thought a bit of culture would be ok because of the way you asked the question  :D :D

I freeze all my meat and bones :)

I have seen a major improvement in my two girls since we changed over

My two were on JWB and they are so much better :)

Lucy
xx

:( Lucy - that brought back a few memories :D My father used to pay(bribe) me to learn that (and others) when I was a child :D :D :D

Daisy

I changed my dog on to BARF about two weeks ago and he absolutely loves it.  He gets all excited when he sees me pick his bowl up.  Prior to this the only thing I could feed him was JWB because everything else upset his stomach - but he hated the JWB he would start eating his one portion of the day at about 5.30pm and by midnight he might have finished it.  Now as soon as his bowl is put down it is cleared - and he seems to be more relaxed and sleeps better too.......

Maxine

If the story you refer to is the westie lady and the puppy, she didn't feed the chicken mince to her puppy, even though the breeder did, she fed Iams. There is more to this pups story than just food, so don't turn away from BARF because of this.

Providing your dogs are fit and healthy don't worry about what they are eating because it must be working...and I bet they love their occasional marrow bones :P

I think it's probably this that the OP is referring to.

You just need to remember that freezers are your friends :D

Hi Maisiemum - You have to be comfortable with your decision, it is INITIALLY a very confusing area, especially when you talk to other BARFERS and realise they are doing things differently to you or are advising different things, causing yet more confusion to yourself.  I can only tell you how I found the raw feeding experience...The decision has to be yours and you have to be well informed.  If you are not comfortable dont do it ;)
I have an animal science background and I spent many years working at a zoo where the emphasis is very much on 'species appropriate diet' - I have always maintained this concept and of course researched an appropriate way of feeding my own animals when I got them.  After much research and discussions with people that feed raw (and have beautiful, healthy dogs) I introduced raw meaty bones, muscle meat, offal, recreational bones at a ration roughly comparable to that of a prey species.  My hounds get the odd egg, organic bio yoghurt, ground flaxseed etc on top of the former mentioned items.  At first I admit I was guilty of the odd panic - especially when I would chat to other people who would say "Ooooh I dont do it like that!" - To that I would say the proof is in the pudding!  My dogs look wonderful and I get GREAT satisfaction in watching them eat.  Watching the different types of teeth work around their bones, using incisors to pull, carnassial molars to shear, the tongue working hard as the jaw is constantly re-positioning (yes I'm sad :D)  Then they might have a whole rabbit (natures complete meal) - complete with offal still in place.  They have a bunny, then they roll around outside in complete satisfaction, rubbing their chops before going to sleep in preparation for their next 'hunt' :D
If their weight creeps up I reduce their intake and vice versa.  They eat very little veg (if at all) while other Barfers I know feed huge amounts of veg...I have complete confidence that the way I do it works for my dogs and nobody (including vets) can convince me otherwise.  I weigh up the risks and without going into my own personal beliefs that I know will cause an unnecessary response for this thread, my decison on what I feed is final.  I am completely satisfied, so are my dogs - and my local butcher :)  If you would like to know specifically what I feed Maisiemum I will happily tell you :) 
Hope this helps, Sarah x

The cross post makes really scarey reading. I worked at Hunt kennels as a groom in the 70's, and the hounds were fed fresh meat, bones and all, and I never heard of them being ill. I will certainly be very careful of any raw 'treats' that I give my dogs now.

>I will certainly be very careful of any raw 'treats' that I give my dogs now.<

As far as I'm aware, the only meat that has to be frozen first before feeding raw, is minced beef.
all of my girls have had fresh, unfrozen chicken. Beef is the only meat that, if I buy fresh, then I freeze first, but its usually frozen meat I buy anyway :)

Hi Missie. Not disagreeing with you, but Isabel put forward a post on the westie puppy thread saying that raw chicken mince could cause problems with salmonella (sp? ) especially when its been minced. I have to say, with all the pros and cons to natural feeding, I don't know what to think any more. I was always thinking raw was good, due to the foxhounds and how my collie cross grew by being fed the occasional 'leg' ;) and meaty bits from the meat yard. He suffered no ills from it. But then, he didnt suffer from a complete food fed in later life either, and ended up on Chappie when the cancer got him at 11. I hide behind my Arden Grange bag :D Although, and this is the killer, my old girl can only eat bakers chicken without getting the 'grumbles' after eating. This is a long story...so won't go into it. I just wonder what was ever decided/proved from the contents of the crosspost? Does anyone know?

>Have any of you heard of neosporosis canineum

I was really worried about this a few weeks ago when I first read it.  When I've been making Spag Bol or Lasagne I've often given our dog titbits of raw mince.  However, I'm a little mystified now because if you google "neosporosis canineum" you'll get 80 hits but they seem to be mostly the same repeated story of the dog Cilla.  If you google neosporosis canineum and ask google to ignore any hits with "-Have any of you heard of " you will only get 9 hits and even then some of them are talking about the original story.

Does anyone know if neosporosis canineum is a real disease and if it why there aren't any reliable sources to research it?

>Does anyone know if neosporosis canineum is a real disease and if it why there aren't any reliable sources to research it?

Because you're not spelling it right! ;) :D
See Neospora caninum.

ha ha ha, a good reason not to copy other people's work.  You never know the mistakes that might be in it.  :D :D :D