We have an apricot coloured standard poodle bitch, aged 2, and with her season due in late July / early August. We wish to breed her, hopefully with another apricot but colour no real issue. We live in Essex.

If anyone can help, please contact Graham or Rachel on 01702 479280 or graham.avery@lineone.net

Thank you

If you wish to breed standard poodles then you need to ensure that your bitch is perfectly healthy. Poodles need to be tested for hips, eyes, SA, VWD at the very least. Has she had these tests done?
It isnt really a matter of putting a male poodle to a female poodle. You need to ensure that you are doing it for the right reasons. The right reasons are to improve the breed.
Please consider carefully before embarking on breeding. If done properly it has no financial reward. If done badly then you will just be adding to the large number of poorly bred dogs out there.

Hi Guest, I would get in touch with your bitches breeder, she is the one person that should know what "lines" to use and can help you find a stud dog, before you mate your bitch I would buy "the book of the bitch" this explains everything you need to know about bitches and mating and what can go wrong.

Hi Guest
You don't say if you are looking for particular lines to compliment your bitch's pedigree, or even what strengths & qualities you are looking for in the stud to improve upon your bitch. Have you thought this through properly or is it a flash of inspiration? If you do think it through and decide to go ahead then you must speak to your bitch's breeder and ask which lines blend well with theirs, and l suggest you take yourself off to some Champ shows to watch and learn and speak to other people before you make any decision.
Sorry if that sounds hard.
Trevor

For goodness sake, the person asked for information not a b***dy lecture!! Don't be so damn patronising and carry on like you are the only ones who care about dogs and their breeding. I doubt this person will ever ask for information or help again off this site! I do know where there is a nice very well bred apricot dog whose owners stud him. If you would like more details please post on this site and I will email them to you.

Ellie, if people don't want to receive responsible and experienced replies, as well as other points of view, then they shouldn't post on a public board!
The replies received were sincerely given by knowledgable and experienced breeders, with genuine concern for the dog world, who were trying to avoid a litter of inferior puppies being produced and sold to ignorant new owners.
There is much to be considered before producing a litter of puppies. All breeds have hereditary health problems of one sort or another, and many lines just don't breed well together. Anyone using "just another dog of the same breed" is leaving themselves wide open to producing and selling problems to new homes. Just because a well bred dog is known certainly doesn't mean that it will be suitable for this bitch.
Many diverse views are posted on this board. Newcomers will decide for themselves if they wish to become conscientious dog breeders who will do their best to be knowledgable about their breed, or puppy producers who sell poor puppies who bear little resemblence to their breed standard.

Ooops who pulled your chain then!!! So you are quite happy to give out this "stud dogs" details, without knowing anything about the bitch? Its because we DO care that postings like these are always cropping up. If the bitches owner read the posts and they were sensible people, they would have contacted their breeder for advice. Now the chances are that they will use" a nice, very well bred apricot dog!!" Very well done:(
I have re read the posts and cannot see anything that resembles a lecture, only helpful advice

Perhaps the nice well bred Apricot poodles owners will not let him be used if the health schemes havent been adhered too,and maybe the pedigree wont fit in with the bitches (not that some people bother about that.)
I agree with val people post on this public board for advice and wether they like the answers or not is another story but mainly people on here reply to questions in an upfront manner, wether the advice is taken is up to them,I dont think anyone deliberatley meant to upset or put anyone off the board.

Mattie, Val, Trev...

Where were all of you to defend me when I got a right roasting for stating my opinion about breeding a couple of weeks ago.

I got a right roasting for the poster and a few other members who I have to say generally themselves are quite strong with their opinions..

But for the record I am sitting on the fence with this one..as my nose is still healing from last time..LOL

All ment in fun..Pam :-)

I am 100% BEHIND what is best for the dog..

There you all go again! Talking to the rest of us like we know nothing and are irresponsible! I happen to know the owners of the stud dog and know they would ask the right questions and look at both pedigrees before allowing any mating to take place! They would probably help this person either find a suitable stud if appropriate or try and put them off if they felt the bitch was unsuitable for breeding without being patronising or speaking to them like they know nothing! You say contact the original breeder but maybe they have and just maybe they weren't very helpful for one reason or another! Could you not have just said "why not contact the breeder?" or even "Have you contacted the breeder?" without launching into the rights and wrongs etc towards a person and dog you know very little about? You may think you have yanked my chain but I think you want muzzling......

Hmmmm muzzling, well that probably fits in fine with recommending someone elses stud dog, when you know nothing about the bitch in question!!! The replies received were helpful, polite and informative. Do you know for a fact that they had approched the bitches breeder? No, you didnt, so why didnt YOU offer that advice instead of having a go at people who were trying to help? Yes, I would call recommending someone elses stud dog to an unknown bitch, irresponsible, so if the capfits.........

Hi Phil
Goodness me, l only just checked back today and look what a fuss. I stand by my original comments and defend them by saying that it appears of all the poster's commenting there is only one (Ellie) who disagrees with anything everyone else is saying. I had not intended it as a lecture but merely food for thought and perhaps pointers for where to go for advice but I think in furture I may have to keep my big mouth shut!
Nicky
P.S. How goes it with Star? Bayley in 6 wks early (now over mid way, so should be ok for Paignton).

Hi Trevor, Please dont keep your mouth shut, your comments are always polite and sensible!!! Hope you get to Paignton OK. Star is still keeping us all hanging on!! Rat bag :)

Phil
As you probably guessed I changed my mind about keeping my mouth shut and opened it wider, I'm with you on the battle-axe front!
Nicky

Mmmm. Why does the phrase "pot calling the kettle ...." spring to mind?

Hi val, Was that posting for me? I guess so, as it was under mine. If it was, what pot and what kettle? I dont recommend anybodys stud dogs, unless specifically asked, and then only to bitches that I have bred, so I know about their health etc. If it was refering to advice about the bitch, other posters had already said the same as I would have done, so not a lot of point repeating it all again.

To you, not about you Philippa! Ellie is complaining about our attitude when we're trying to give responsible advice and replies with rudeness!

Val :):) Sorry, bit thicker than usual tonight, put it down to a rotten horrible summer cold lol

Ellie
I'm sorry if you have been offended by my comments in reply to the Stud Search post. However, I will stand by them and do not think they were patronizing in any way! What I will say, and this will probably stir you up even more, is that this is exactly the sort of situation that registration endorsement is for! Responsible breeders, in our breed anyway, always endorse reg 'progeny not eligible for reg' and this makes it imperative that the owner contact the breeder first with a view to removing the endorsement. Making the breeder the first contact is what I was advocating in my original post. That you have immediately suggested a stud without knowing anything about the bitch or her people is, as Phillipa rightly says, V.V.iresponsible and likely to do more harm than good.
I expect you are now seething again, but there that's my opinion and, correct me if I'm wrong, but, opinions are what a public forum like this is for!!
I note that your first post was similar in advertising a wanted for a Standard bitch so perhaps that is where the empathy springs from, were the replies scathing? or did you not get any at all?
Trevor

Agree entirely. Breeding is a very serious undertaking, and by the time you have got cross eyed poring over pedigrees checking bloodlines trying to avoid problem a) and fault b), excluded every dog that is available for some reason, you wonder if it is worth bothering as there is always a risk of producing something undesireable!

Then you have people who blithely mate dog a) to bitch b) with little knowledge, produce poor or unsound pups, and the vets have a field day castigating pedigree breeders for producing cripples!

Most people in my breed use endorsements too! When a lot of us started we did worry that people would think something was wrong with the pups or be put off buying. In fact the opposite has mostly been the case once it is explained that it is done for the good of the breed and the individual dog/bitch! I of course point out under which circumstances I would remove the endorsement.

Frankly when a person needs to ask how to find a stud then they simply have too little knowledge to breed a litter, and need to educate themselves about their breed, and the principles of breeding, genetics etc!

Hi Brainless
Another voice of reason, so I can't be too wrong can I?

Of course another consideration is the fact that the original breeder's name and affix will be heading up the pedigree in this mating and therefore is slated by association to any possible sub-standard pups even if they know nothing of the owners plans, of course if the breeder had made use of the endorsements available this situation could have been avoided and I will always endorse my babies to avoid this unpleasant situation and for other valid reasons such as protecting the health & safety of my breed and dissuading the puppy farmers from entering our breed etc.

Another point of note I feel worth mentioning is whether the original postee has thought about how much money it takes to breed & raise a healthy litter? Or just thought 'oh I paid £X for her we could have 10 puppies which will be 10x£X'! I have plans to mate my bitch at her next season (still 6 months away), this will be my first litter, despite being involved in the breed for 14 years now, I have spent at least the last 6 months reasearching bloodlines and possible studs, with an enormous amount of support and information from her breeder, I have bought & read from cover to cover books on mating, whelping and rearing a litter and I am endeavouring to plough through genetics, modes of inheritance and Mendelism, I have made preparations at home for whelping and converted the rear of our garage for a kennel & run for the babies as they get older, and on top of all this I have saved a £2,000 float for stud fee, feed & emergencies (should we need a cesear etc).

And I could not agree more with your closing paragraph and second that sentiment totally!

Nicky

Though i have nothing to add to this post on the rights and wrongs of the issue, but endorsements - though they go some way to encouraging responsible owners - they in no way stop the owner from breeding the dog at all, though the pups would go unregistered this makes no difference to many people, and should the owners be unscrupulous, it just saves them money not having to pay for registration. I'm not saying by this that endorsements are not worthwhile, just reacting to trevors post saying that he will endorse all his pups to stop the new owners breeding - it won't...

Hi Cleopatra
I know that it is not an absolute (see post to Phillipa below) but it is at least a step in the right direction!
Nicky

Hi Pamela.I must have missed your other posting Ive been a bit slow recently but I am trying to catch up. :)

Well I have set you all off haven't I? All I was trying to say is that was there any need to go on about breeding rights and wrongs etc when the person could have been put in touch with a responsible breeder (As is the one I was talking about) who would ask the right questions and point the person in the right direction. If you put people off at this stage because you sound like you don't approve without knowing anything about the person that is when they are likely to go down the road and use any old thing from a person looking for stud monies. I speak from experience and it has nothing to do with empathy. I advertised for a bitch when there were very few about and on the suggestion of the breeder of my other bitch but with a definite idea of what I wanted. The experience I mentioned is of a local lady who bred from her bitch (well bred) with an unknown quantity from down the road because she didn't know where else to go! This doesn't make it right, she should not have bred for the reasons she did but perhaps if a reputable breeder had had the chance to speak to her she wouldn't have been in the mess she was in out of which I ended up helping her by homing 3 pups for her!! So I am not condoning willy nilly breeding and saying this person could use this stud dog if she feels like it. I am saying I know where there is such a dog owned by a responsible breeder who will discuss the matter with her and at least she stands a chance of getting it right if it is the right thing to do!

Ellie
Sounds a bit like you are changing your tune here, you are more careful in this last post in what you say, and qualifying it, but that doesn't mean we were wrong to offer our opinions in the first place and it certainly doesn't make you right in attacking our replies & offering a stud dog contact without any knowledge of the bitch, her breeding or her people!
I stick to my main point, which is that although, commendably, you suggest the Guest should be speaking to an experienced breeder, the experienced breeder should be the breeder of her bitch not your well meaning friend.
And finally I will say that I feel there is every need to "go on about the breeding rights & wrongs" because if it stops even one irresponsible pet owner breeding a litter (just like the lady down your road) then it was worthwhile.
Nicky

Nicky :) :) agrre with you totally.As for endorsements, I even endorse my own puppy, in case he/she turns out to be not a good specimen. It wont stop unscrupulous people breeding unregistered puppies, but hopefully, they will only do it once and then find they cant get the high prices asked nowadays for registered dogs. I also endorse all the males. If people dont want the endorsement, then they dont get to buy one of my pups, simple as that!! I am SUCH an old battleaxe!!!!!!!! :(

Hi Phillipa
I do know that it doesn't stop the unscrupulous people having a litter, but as you say is a detterent and possibly if they have a litter, can't reg, find the hard work & expense pays little dividend for un-reg pups, maybe, just maybe they won't do it again!
Have had first hand experience of this, one of Trevor's brothers fell on hard times when his owner died, the husband advertised him and a lady who had a bitch (from totally different line etc) bought him. She applied to the breeder (don't need to name name's you know who Trev's breeder is) to lift the dog's endorsement as she wanted to mate him with her bitch (not endorsed) said nothing of the bitch etc, so breeder refuses and does not aknowledge the letter. A short time later he receives another letter saying that the bitch is now in season and will be mated so he must remove the endorsement asap, again he refuses. Third contact was to notify him that the bitch had been mated & was in whelp, fourth contact brought photo's of the pup's as emotional blackmail, didn't work! Then the lady changed tactics and started to get nasty, she invoked a little known KC ruling that means that the endorsement is invalid if the puppy went to it's new home before it was registered (thereby meaning that if the puppy was in it's new home before it was endorsed and that if it is not the new owners wish to have the endorsement it may be removed without the breeders consent), luckily the breeder was able to contact the original owner's husband and get him to sign a statement to state the date his wife had collected the pup, which was after it's registration. So it didn't stop her but it made it difficult and it made the pup's virtually worthless and she won't do it again, unless of course she gets her hands on an unendorsed boy!

Well, Star is being very capricious isn't she? Good luck! Bayley over mid way now so will be fine for Paignton, but she's not entered for South Wales, as I thought she may be coming in!, or anything else after, so she is messing me about too! Rodrick being remarkably well behaved, bless him, under close personal protection at all times & sleeping in our bedroom which is fine except hubby complains he snores! Puts my plans for next season forward a bit, do you still think it would be ok to mention the 2nd pup to those people or do you think this will make them to close in age?
Nicky