Hi All

I expect you all remember me posting about Hamish my westie who suffers from severe skin allergies and is currently on atopica which is indeed working very well for his skin, we have been having a lot of behaviour problems with him over the past year which have progressively got worse, he has also started to tremble really badly and when we leave him he howls and whines, i took him to the vet as the behaviouralist i had in said to get him checked to see there was nothing else wrong with him that could be causing this, i took him last week and the vet ran some blood tests to do a health profile although he was convinced in such a young dog that they would come back clear, i asked him to do them anyway just to put my mind at rest, he phoned me yesterday with the results, he has got acute inflammation which they are assuming is to do with his skin, his thyroid was normal, there was something elevated (which i didn't catch what he said) this can be the 1st signs of addisons disease, but said they are putting it more down to his skin trouble causing this than addisons thats why they didn't test further on this, but the most important concern is that he has got signs of liver damage, he said he will need to do another blood test in 3 months to keep an eye on this, i asked if it could be caused by the atopica drug because since he has been on this we have linked his behaviour getting so bad and also now his liver is showing signs of damage could this all be linked but he didn't seem to think so, i have now asked for a 2nd opinion with a homeopathic vet to see if there are any herbal medicines hamish can be put on instead of living longterm on atopica as i am concerned he will get further liver damage if it is this drug, i have made an appt to see a homeopathic vet on thursday morning to see what he thinks of the situation, i just feel i owe it to hamish to do whats best for him in the longrun and is this drug is causing him problems i need to try and get him changed now instead of leaving it too long.
I don't know much about addisons disease but could this be the cause of his whole body to tremble and shake at times as he seems to do this a lot lately and sometimes it is so bad it looks like he is having a fit!!

Will keep you all posted as to how i get on on thursday at the vets.

Helen

Hi Helen
I'm really sorry that the test results were not what you anticipated, I think you've made a wise decision to get a second opinion and to go down the route of homeopathy.

I don't have a scientific background, but what I do know about drugs, is that long term they can cause side effects and as you've noticed your westie has had behaviour problems since using the atopica drug, and obviously is generally unwell then it seems that this may be something to do with it.  It may be that the atopica just doesn't suit your westie.

Good luck and please keep us all posted with his progress.
Maria x

Helen, So sorry to hear this, even though ive had westies for a long time now, I know nothing about Addisons. Could your westie have what we call Liver shunt, I know westies along with other breeds can get this, but again I know not a lot about it. Go into Search on the site and type in liver shunt, or addisons and you should get a lot of information on both of these problems it happens in all different breeds.

Hi Helen,

I'm so sad for you with even more worry about your little guy :( 

Re the Addison's - ask your vet to do the ACTH stim test - it is the only definitive test for Addisons and IMO far better to know immediately (results within a couple of hours) whether or not your dealing with the disease.  It's a simple blood test, then an injection to stimulate the gland, followed by a further blood test to compare adrenal levels after an hour or so.

I can understand you wanting a second opinion and also seeking homeopathic intervention but personally I'd want to address the possibility of Addisons before doing anything else.

Hugs to you both, Teri x 

> but the most important concern is that he has got signs of liver damage, he said he will need to do another blood test in 3 months to keep an eye on this, i asked if it could be caused by the atopica drug.

Really sorry to hear this, Helen :-(  As far as I'm aware, the drug is extensively metabolized in the liver.  I understand that there can be adverse effects to the liver with long term use but that clinical scores return to baseline values (normal range) when the drug is withdrawn.   Similarly the drug is best avoided in dogs with liver problems.

PS, agree with Teri :-) I'd get Addisons tested for too.

Hugs and Best wishes to you both XX

Hello Helen, I too am really sorry to hear about your westie.I'd never heard of atopica so looked it up and found it was ciclosporin. I've absolutely no experience with it's use in dogs but know more about it's use in humans. It's an immunosupressant and side effects include hepatic dysfunction and tremor. Liver function would be monitored in humans taking this drug.
Good luck with the homeopathic vet and hopefully you can get to the bottom of your problems.
Janet x

Hi All

Been to the homeopathic vet today with hamish and here is the update, he went through all his past history from the old vet and his new blood test results, he said he definitely hasn't got addisons disease and doesn't know why the vet said this as there is no linking to it, his liver has definitely shown damage and he said that this is the cause of the atopica drug, he said he has also seen many dogs on atopica that have started with behaviour problems so he has advised me to stop this drug altogether as his liver will continue to suffer the longer he is on the drug, i had already decided to stop it so am glad that he has said so, he said by looking at his blood results there is a strong possibility that he has got thyroid disease and this would be causing a lot of his other symptoms that i explained to him when he asked me about hamish, he said that he will look into doing a further test for thyroid when we go back in 6 weeks for another checkup, he said that the behaviour could possibly be caused by the liver damage aswell because liver problems can make a dog mentally unstable and he has given him some tablets to take 1X3 daily for his mind to help him calm down, he has also given him a tablet 1 per week to take for his skin as he said if we don't get his skin under control he will be back to a state with that again, i asked if they could do the test for addisons disease but he said there definitely is no linking to him having this, and that he is convinced that the atopica drug has caused him to have liver and behaviour problems and because of his liver being damaged we are know suffering the side effects of this also, but we need to make sure his liver stables enough so that it doesn't damage anymore.
He said it is a good job he is insured because it would cost a small fortune otherwise, as if he has got thyroid disease he will need treatment for the rest of his lift, he said unfortunately hamish isn't a healthy young chap but as long as i can keep him out of pain i will do as much for him as i can he is such a lovely chap and i think the world of him, i am just glad i found out about the drug now rather than later.

Helen

Hi Helen,

hopefully things will start to improve for Hamish - you've both been through the mill :(

TBH, I'd still want an Addisons test done - the same test would also help towards rule out/in Cushings Disease which although normally associated with older dogs can present in younger ones and also be as a result of med damage to vital organs.

However, I'm not a vet (but definitely a worry wort :D ) and so if needing to have tests done I'd rather rule out the "big guns" which present similar symptoms but can be managed if treated correctly and in good time while naturally hoping that it is a more minor ailment.

I sincerely hope that you and Hamish get speedy relief :)  Thanks for posting an update.
Teri

Hi Helen :)

Thanks for the update and it certainly sounds like the visit to the homeopathic vet was worthwhile.  Do hope things start to improve for you and Hamish now and you can get his skin condition under control by other means than the atopica.