My friend is about to take her dog to stud. She has had hips and elbows done - both were very good scores - and she is using a stud dog as recommended by the breeder of her bitch. She wishes to register a affix - how is this done please? And to then have her bitch called "such and such @ her affix" does she have to re-register the bitch? She also has a castrated dog - can he be registered under her affix too? Any thoughts or advice on this would be appreciated please. She has 2 homes lined up already - its lovely to see someone taking such responsible actions for once!

She can use the Kennel Club web site to apply for a kennel name and get the form to reregister her bitch.  She can add it to the dog providing he is already registered in her name it does not matter if he is castrated.  I will have a look for the links in a bit :)

Download for applying for change of name
Info page on applying for kennel name including application form

LOL faster typing Isabel

...and I gave you all a head start on the links ;)

mmm must admit I got in a bit of a twist with the link to start of with LOL

You can apply for the registration of an affix, change of bitches name and registration of puppies all at the same time.  They just hold off the registration of the puppies until the approval has gone through so it does delay things but if the buyers aren't too bothered, and mine weren't when I did this ;), it saves a lot of tooing and froing.

Hi thisarea of the KC web site tells you how to apply for a Kennel Name/Affix and can be done either on line or by downloading an application form.Once the kennel name has been granted she can apply to have it added to the end of any KC reg dogs she owns,using form 8 that is also linked to from that page.HTH

The KC is now a lot quicker in registering affixes now, my friend had her back within a month where as I had to wait what seemed like ages. (2 months +), as long as no objections are rec after publishing in the gazette all will be ok. The dogs will have her affix added after their kc reg name eg :Flossy red would now be flossy red at xxxx and pups will be xxxx and name

Hi

I've just registered my affix and it came back in a week. Still got to wait to check that there are no objections but the actual kennel club were very quick.:-)

The only time that you can't add your affix onto your dogs name is ifit has qualified for the stud book, though interestingly enough if someone has added an affix to a dog you breed, and say you have the dog back, as long as they are not in the stud book then that other affix can be removed on the breeders request.

only 2 homes lined up for a litter? thats not many! does she know there are about 300  registered litters at any one time for sale on the KC site?

As for the castrated dog - as she wont be showing him or using him for breeding purposes not sure whether its worth adding the affix to his papers JMO

Unless she works him. :)

I don't recall asking for opinions on her homing progress so far - but thanks anyway :)

Hi Carla :-))

With my tin hat on ;-) and running for cover :-D

I haven't replied till now because although I think it is great about the health tests and agree that she is covering the basics BUT my first question to anyone , EVERYTIME is why  is the puppies being born??    If the person isn't not involved in showing or working then selling surplus puppies is and can be very hard. Unless someone like the stud dog owner helps.  

Health tests as we know are not enough.  The dog should be a good enough example of the breed. It is one of the reason I have always thought putting in puppy contracts endorsements will be lifted once health tests are done are a bit silly because the dog should equally be worthy of breeding from.

My breed has NO health tests or none that are required so to me that doesn't mean every dog in my breed should be bred from, in fact most shouldn't going by the state of the dogs I see around these days.

Sorry if you think it is a bit off post but I am not one for straight answers especially when it means another litter of what is a badly badly over bred breed anyway.. :-) sorry. No offence intended as you will know..

Hiya Blue :) I don't recall saying she isn't involved in showing or working her dogs :D

Her circumstances aside... yes, there are many many MANY litters of this breed being born. A lot will be born from untested, unworked, unshown parents. On this occasion she has ticked several boxes, done her research, done the health tests (and got excellent scores - not just average ones!), waited the right amount of time - so why shouldn't she breed from her bitch? She is breeding for a bitch for herself, so thats 3 homes (assuming she hasn't got more lined up since) and this is well before the *mating* is due to take place - never mind the birth!

There are many more folk who should be targeted for deciding to breed. She knows what she is doing, what she is taking on and has the support of her bitches breeder. Can't say fairer than that IMO :)

Hiya Blue  I don't recall saying she isn't involved in showing or working her dogs You didn't hence my questions/comment. :-) and hence why I said IF.

There are many more folk who should be targeted for deciding to breed.  OH I totally agree and probably if everyone asked questions on here they would get similar questions from various people.

Please dont take this personally as people can only reply based on the info given. Likewise people often say, " please just answer to the question asked"  BUT good breeding and promoting good breeding isn't that simple. I think good breeders also should only encourage good breeding answering yes and no isn't always promoting good breeding. :-) Of course only in my opinion. 

It is hard to give a lot of info in an opening post I agree but when someone says ( forget your post for a moment)  , " She has done all her homework"  then asks a question about an affix I get confused and wonder how much homework has been done. Again I know this isn't you situation but you asked the question on her behalf. :-)   I am suprise the breeder couldn't have answered this question in 30 secs.  OR if she showed or work any person could also answer it in 30 secs.

I know it is hard for posts to come over constructively when people feel personal about it.

I forgot to ask what about the eyes?? has she done home work on the eye conditions??  ( for some reason I thought it was labradors am I right???)

yes, there are many many MANY litters of this breed being born

so why shouldn't she breed from her bitch?

For the reason stated above really. :)

I'm not saying that your friend's bitch isn't worthy of being bred from, just that there are SO many dogs about nowadays, EVERYONE has to think very carefully before producing more.  It's not just the puppies from this mating, but those from the resulting puppies, and their puppies, and their puppies...

IMO the best question one could ask themselves before breeding a litter is "how would this litter benefit the breed as a whole?".  If she honestly thinks it would do the breed some good then fine :)

Debs

Please don't take offence at this but I really think you should be offering your advice elsewhere. I didn't ask for advice on whether she should breed, I posted on behalf of a friend asking a simple question that I was interested in too. Why everything has to erupt into a debate I have *no* idea. So, thanks to those that have answered the question and I'll not be commenting any further :)

No offence taken :)

I was merely answering your question in an earlier post (so why shouldn't she breed from her bitch?) and then elaborating on my answer :)

Debs

Hello Everyone, Forgive me for only just registering. Thanks Carla for your support, I only wish others would be more supportive instead of being critical. The question was regarding the application of a kennel name and solely that. After 15 years of keeping this breed only now do I feel I have the bitch to breed from. Yes she has had her eyes tested and her hips and elbow scores have proved to be fantastic. She has also come from a quality show line. This dog will produce carefully bred, home reared pups that could go on to be shown or trained as working dogs as her grand parents have, and that is all I have to say at this point to prove that I and my bitch are worthy of breeding a litter from this 'over bred' breed. Thank you for all the earlier informative posts.

I hope you have not taken umbrage :)  If you love the breed and know what it has been subjected to you will understand why people feel they have to enquire a little deeper.

Thanks Isabel, and yes I fully understand. I'm waiting to hear back if any of my choices have been granted. I wanted more information than was available on the KC website regarding the Affix - it was weekend, my calls to them were unanswered, anyway fingers crossed!

If you happen to be going to Crufts in a couple of weeks I think I am right in saying you can sort it out with them face to face at the KC stand.

Welcome on board. :-)

I am glad you have posted a bit more information.

Like I have said to Carla, simple yes and no answers are not always the most responsible replies to certain questions.

Asking questions is not being critical I am afraid.  You have in one post expanded greatly. Including the eye tests. That she comes from show stock and you intend to work or show her. :-) nothing wrong with this.

Good luck with your mating and I hope you get something nice to show or work.

I would also add if you haven't already done so join your breed club they can be a very good source of help and guidance for you. :-)

Morning :) I don't think my friend has any objections to questions - but this:

>only 2 homes lined up for a litter? thats not many!

is critical! :D

Anyway, welcome on board Cosijo :)

>only 2 homes lined up for a litter? thats not many!

is critical!

Yes it is, but also very true with so many pups for sale and looking for homes. :)

To be honest, taking sara's comment in it's full context ...

>only 2 homes lined up for a litter? thats not many! does she know there are about 300 registered litters at any one time for sale on the KC site?

I think it was a very sensible comment indeed, in case your friend didn't know. She could have gone on to add that there's also a huge number unregistered. Anyone thinking of breeding a litter of this breed must surely think that's valid information? I'd want it pointed out to me if I didn't already know.

Anyway, hey ho, Cosijo seems to be doing things right, and we all know that if there aren't people offering well thought out litters, Joe Public will go and buy the bad ones anyway.

M.

You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

That comment could have been put in a constructive way. The second part of the comment is fine.

>You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

You do indeed, wording could have been better but I think the intention was good. :D

M.

Who wants to catch flies?  Not me. 
I'm more than happy to help those who want to learn about responsible breeding, but those who just want to add to huge numbers of unwanted dogs ...........  I spend my time trying those dogs. :(

I think its the shortness of the post that makes it seem caustic, and a touch sarcastic, followed up by the other persons comment of why add an affix to a casterated dog. I would think that if she wants to add it to that dog its up to her,;) the question quite simply was could it be done.

I know it can seem hard work to those that have been here a long time to give a long, uncritical answer to someone who is requesting advice on any aspect of breeding/kc rules etc, but I think if you are going to take the time to point out any breeding pitfalls to a far less experienced person, which the breeder sounded in the original post, then it needs to be in full, non critical soundingterms, or else it comes across as sarcastic. Its obvious from the litters and kennels advertising breeding on this site, and on other sites with links back to this one, and the KC lists, breed club lists, dog mags etc that most people with popular breeds have most or all of their litter to sell after they have been born, regardless of their standing in the dog world. so I would say having 2 homes, plus the one staying, is a good start. After all, you could well have many homes awaiting, but are they always there after the litter is born? What if you have a lot of girl homes, and mainly boy pups, or vice versa? Or the 'wrong colour or markings'. Nothing is set in stone, not for anyone.

Now I'm sitting under my tin roof with my tin hat on too....

" ...that most people with popular breeds have most or all of their litter to sell after they have been born, regardless of their standing in the dog world. so I would say having 2 homes, plus the one staying, is a good start. After all, you could well have many homes awaiting, but are they always there after the litter is born? What if you have a lot of girl homes, and mainly boy pups, or vice versa? Or the 'wrong colour or markings'. Nothing is set in stone, not for anyone...."

Actually this is just as true or even more true of those of us with less popular/less known breeds, the number of pups being born may not be large, but the number of people who are looking for the breed often are small in number too, and you only need a couple of unbalanced (sex wise) litters, or some larger than average, or born about same time for there to be pups available despite prior bookings.

Morning Carla,

Thank you for all the earlier informative posts.

I was really responding to this in case it included my posts  as I was late to the thread :-))

Your freind has expanded which always makes things easier to build a picture :-))

Historically, and with no exception (that I can remember..)
Breeding topics do.. all... illict this exact response, and Im sure whatever side of the fence we individually sit or wether indeed we just sit on the fence ;).. at its essence we surely must agree that any input to the greater good of the knowledge bank is justified and right.
     It is frustrating when you see your OP get deviated from the original course you wanted and asked for it to take. To be fair, I would feel the same if I had just enquired about affix registery and titled my thread 'affix enquiry' but you  lead the readers eye to the wider issue of breeding in your title and did finish with the comment of how "lovely it was to see someone taking such responsible actions for once"... so looking at it I think I can see thats probably what opened the floodgate ,if you will, to commentary on Best breeding practice.
( I hasten to add Im putting that up as my observation..not..my judgement)
     In my breed we have come to the most inconceivable day where our UK breed club rescue is deceiding to accept only registered and members dogs as it simply cannot cope with the rescue numbers...in such a specialist breed.. the poor poor dogs who will be turned away :(
     So on that note I applaud anyone who takes the time whenever and however they can to highlight all the aspects that should be taken in deciding to breed it may very well not be relevant in the end to the OP but if it makes even just one person who subsequently reads it, to stop and think and review their decisions then.. its a good thing in my book but I will admit Im a bit of an annoying 'bigger picture' person!... I sincerely hope everyone takes the actions of the SHCGB as a cautionary tale..I certainly never thought Id see the day :(

Excellent post HG. :)

Of course, best breeding practice is a personal opinion, even if this is held by a number of people, opinions will always vary. I was looking on CD site for Labs, and the listing shows over 400 people registered as breeders, 40 litters, and a huge number of stud dogs. Even just using these 400 people, halving it and saying just a litter each in a 12 mth period, thats an awful lot of puppies, and not everyone will advertise here. Thats just Labs, not looked at the other popular breeds.

I don't think critical, one liners with a bit of an undertone, will put people off breeding, in fact it may make them take the 'I will if I want' and be damned. The bigger picture, from experienced folk, given in a calm manner, with all the points made clear, are far more likely to make someone think again, ask more questions, and also not be afraid or hesitant to actually ask, to carry a thread through. I understand it can seem like treading water to have to repeat yourself, time and again, but if the poster is new to this, it is their first time.

I really can't understand breed rescue and the breed club not having big issues with its members for not taking back any puppy bred by a member. I thought that it was standard practice, and part of club rules, that the breeder has full responsibility for any puppy they have ever bred? Very often it is said here to buy through a breed club, and you would expect a member to have a big hands on with rehoming, or any other issues that crop up. Thats the thing that is supposed to put the club member above anyone else who breeds, that the breeding is for the right reasons and the breeder is always there should problems arise. To me, it follows that the only ones needing the rescue help are the ones bred for the money, and with breeders who, club members or not, will not have the lifetime responsibility for their offspring.

To me, it follows that the only ones needing the rescue help are the ones bred for the money, and with breeders who, club members or not, will not have the lifetime responsibility for their offspring.

Absolutely calmstorm.  Most breed clubs talk about breeders helping to rehome any dogs that they've bred rather than actually taking them back.  But eventually when so many people are producing ill bred, bad tempered, unsocialised due to being sold to unsuitable homes, often not health tested (but good heath test results alone don't make a dog or bitch suitable for breeding in numerically large breeds ;) ) , responsible breeders who take full responsibility for what they are doing, get fed up with picking up all the pieces for the irresponsible people just peoducing puppies because they want to.  Everyone had their limit of tolerance if they are not going to behave like a doormat!

Making no reference to the OP here:rolleyes:, if potential breeders are involved in the dog world, whether it be the show ring, working, obedience, agility, or have belonged to their breed club for a while and get involved with their activities, then they would have an understand of their breed overall and wouldn't post the very basic of questions that are so often seen here. :) 

There are some posters who wouldn't reconsider their 'right to breed' however they were handled, but there are also a lot of people who read this forum and if anything that they read stops just one litter of, mediocre at best and a liability at worst, pups being produced, then I for one would consider all tacts (no one way suits everybody! :) ) to be appropriate. :D

PS  I sometimes wonder how many of the 'I've been researching my breed for some time' people have actually spent any time helping their breed rescue?

>Making no reference to the OP here, if potential breeders are involved in the dog world, whether it be the show ring, working, obedience, agility, or have belonged to their breed club for a while and get involved with their activities, then they would have an understand of their breed overall and wouldn't post the very basic of questions that are so often seen here.

Well, we better just shut the board down then - because if everyone followed that route then it would be pointless having it.

I needn't have posted on here, I could have mailed or rung Willis breeder - but I thought it might benefit others - I'll not make that mistake again :rolleyes:

Surely members dogs should be dealt with by the breeders themselves,a and the registered ones have identifiable breeders who should be leaned on very heavily to step up to their responsibilities.  Surely rescue is for those without the usual safety net.  Leaving all these to general rescue will lead to a lot of heartache.

Hi HG :)

>did finish with the comment of how "lovely it was to see someone taking such responsible actions for once"

Thanks for your post, but this was made as a statement, a genuine one, not a question or an invitation for discussion or even to provoke one ;)

I added it because I see, hear and talk to FAR too many people who want to breed their dogs and haven't done the homework my friend has. We see it on here all the time. So why my post had to be picked apart and a sarcastic comment left when there are FAR FAR worse people breeding out there I have no idea.

Suffice to say I'll not ask for advice on here again for someone ;)

Carla- your friend needs to apply for her affix/ kennel name (which come through quite quickly these days) then she'll be able to use it to register the pups.  Crufts is a great place to sort it out since you can do it face to face with the KC.  Once her affix is granted she can then apply to add it to her existing dogs KC names and register pups using it :-)

Stacey x 

i applyed for my affix when my bitch was confirmed in whelp it was provisionally granted on the 12 june,
as it stated in the letter i wasnt to use it till it had appeared in august edition of the kennel gazette i phoned up k.c to see if i could use the kennel name to registure my litter the answer was yes so i asked about adding it to my bitches pedigree name so when the pups pedigree was seen by new owners the bitch would bear my affix unfortunatly i was told to wait till after it had appeared in the magizine as it would not be definate of keeping this name.

IMO COSIJO responded extremely politely considering the responses to Carla's posts.  COSIJO has nothing wrong and in fact is only doing what most of the breeders on this forum did at some point, look to experts for professional advice not judgements about her ethics as a prospective breeder.  She most certainly should not have had to justify her position on a public forum.

There are too many dogs but people who are looking for sound advice about how to breed properly should not be condemned for adding to the population of any one breed unless of course you want whole populations of specific breeds to be only poorly bred.

Perhaps the frustration of what is happening re the over-breeding for money making purposes only should be directed at bodies who can advertise accordingly - KC.  That's the organisation who is supposed to represent quality dogs so they are best placed to educate dog breeders and owners alike.