Someone on a nutrition board i belong to posted this,and thus far the canine nutritionists of the board are all in agreement re: the article.I found it very interesting and informative reading :)

http://www.thepetcenter.com/imtop/protein.html


There's a link down the bottom of the page named:read more about meat based and grain based diets here

They do have some good articles on that site :)
(The feeding RMB diet to wolves research was a good one)
I get frustrated sometimes that some of their articles have been quite badly put together though (selective editing or quoting mainly ;) )
    And I dont particularly like that (our beloved!) Dominque Grandjean's comment is used as the opener.. I have 3 of his books and one is signed by him (spotter! :) ) I met him at the Scandanavian Scandream sled race.
    He was talking specifically about working sled dogs (and we In sibe/alsakans know that our breed has as a breed always done well on high fat high protein diet wether working or sedentary!)
    Grandjean does in his chapters on this make reference to breeds which do NOT!
Important to note.

Could you put the link up to the wolf research please :D Can't find it by myself :rolleyes: :D

Here you go.. Feeding Canids bones
Its a series of anecdotal emails more than a research paper :)

(on this site if you go right to the bottom of every page there's a grey box which is a site map, and you'll find list of articles there)

Thanks bunches :)

I'm always disappointed when sites which purport to be by 'experts' totally fail to mention vital elements. How much better the 'Protein' page would be if they explained about the difference between high- (risky) and low- (safer) purine proteins, not just blanketing them all together. It suggests that they don't know. And if they don't know about that, what else don't they know ...

I'm not an expert in anything at all, but if I know more about a topic than they do, then they're not experts either! ;)

The article is about high protein/protein and a dogs high need for it.It is not about purine proteins,thats probably on another page :) Just because they didnt mention it doesnt mean they dont know about it......

I belong to dozens of canine nutrition sites as well as health forums and yours is the only dog i know of with this problem,so i'm guessing it's not all that common,and is a seperate issue to the average article on protein.

>is the only dog i know of with this problem,so i'm guessing it's not all that common,

Hmm. I think the assayers at Minnesota, who have assayed over 54,000 stones from very many breeds (only 5% from dalmatians) would disagree with you, the nutrition sites and the health forums!

If people are advising owners to feed high levels of animal protein surely it goes without saying that they shouldn't leave those people with the impression that all animal protein is safe? If they don't explain about the implications of the wrong sort they're putting dogs at risk. Shame.

>would disagree with you, the nutrition sites and the health forums!

I think disagreeing with me,them and they is a mute point.There simply are no dogs on any of the forums i belong to with stone problems,i'm not sure how you can disagree with that

Anyway i started this thread to highlight the importance of a meat based/high protein diet as opposed to high grain low protein diets,not to talk about you're pet project of purines. :) Why not start another thread and let this one remain on topic :)

>There simply are no dogs on any of the forums i belong to with stone problems,i'm not sure how you can disagree with that

I didn't think any of mine had stone problems until the blockage, because there were no symptoms. So unless these people do all the tests every few months then they can't be certain that they aren't at risk. Perhaps they're happy with their heads in the sand - it's certainly easier that way! It's like people saying their breed have no health problems when they haven't been tested!

Any factual information about protein can't fail to be on topic in a thread entitled "Myths about protein". If you don't want additional information about protein added to it to make it clear that there are different types of protein it will itself be perpetuating another myth. To suggest that all animal protein is the same is as untrue as saying that animal protein is the same as vegetable protein.

>It is not about purine proteins,thats probably on another page

No, a search of their site finds no matches with the word 'purine' or 'purines'. If they know about it, they're not willing to share the information. (I'm not sure what you mean by 'purine proteins' - it would be better written the other way around, because all protein contains purines.)

As well as the gaps already been mentioned they have already lost me on the first paragraph.

Dogs are scientifically classified as carnivores as opposed to the dictionary definition.

They also do not talk about complete and incomplete proteins and the fact that not all complete proteins are animal based.

So I have not bothered to read further.

One of the main reasons i posted the Link was to hopefully highlight to people that the cheap low protein,high grain commercial foods that abound us today really arent the best for our dogs,and are made more for the interests of the manufactures pockets than the health of our pets :rolleyes: Far too many people fall hook,line and sinker for the advertisements and whats written on the packs and dont bother to go that extra mile to find out exactly what their dogs are eating,and what they need. For example bakers says "rich in beef and chicken" ROFLMAO!! And people believe it :(

>They also do not talk about complete and incomplete proteins and the fact that not all complete proteins are animal based

Yes but a dogs needs are for animal protein,not soy based et al protein.I have many more scientific papers i could have posted which do go in to great  and very long detail,but i hazard to guess that they would make for far too heavy reading at this stage..baby steps :)

I also agree that dogs are carnivors,but i liked everything else that was written,so i posted it :) And as i understand it you are a raw feeder so presumably already know the importance of a meat based diet....

>I have many more scientific papers i could have posted which do go in to great  and very long detail,but i hazard to guess that they would make for far too heavy reading at this stage..baby steps

How Patronising!  To be honest, although it's quite interesting, I'm not particularly fired by the protein debate and don't seek independent information on it.  Nevertheless I felt that I had to respond to your condescending statement, because there will be readers who are offended but too polite to say so.  I don't know what your qualifications are but I know for sure there are people on here with science based qualifications and even if people haven't got them it doesn't mean they can't understand academic work. In your opinion they might be heavy reading but others will find they are not. 

I don't know what your qualifications are Unless someone comes along and tells me otherwise no more qualifications on the dogs food chain than you or I.

high grain commercial foods that abound us today really arent the best for our dogs,and


Of course in your opinion and based on what you have read yourself..

I actually personally don't feed complete food so don't think this is a commercial diet defender,  I just think your post/posts verge on the side of ramming it down peoples throats.

For example bakers says "rich in beef and chicken" ROFLMAO!!

DO you honestly think people are that silly.. I don't.:rolleyes:

We all eat Mcdonalds, Chinese , indian food take aways that are not particular good for us. Do we care.. most will say no. infact you will struggle to find a product on a supermarket shelf these days that doesn't contain for example aspartume , do we continue to eat the products ..

Some dog food opinions are bordering slightly on OTT, of course in my opinion.

Round around round we go, scentific evidence on boths sides. I pick and feed what suits me.