Hiya,

The forthcoming Crufts will be a first, both for myself and my dog. I downloaded the schedule from Fossedata yesterday and had a good look through all the rules & regs re benching. At champ shows normally my dog is benched in his fabric crate and is v relaxed. I'd hoped to do the same at Crufts but was told that I couldn't use a fabric crate because the dog had to be visible at all times? . However, unless I've missed something, there's nothing to that effect in the show rules and regs? If I had to use a metal crate I'd still want to pop a blanket over the top or something so he can get some rest as looks as though we'll be out of the ring by mid morning and then waiting til 4pm to leave. How tightly is the benching situation 'policed'? (i.e. would I be able to cover the crate up at all during the day? :rolleyes:).

Thanks in advance,

Vinne x

Hi Vinnie,

Thi came up on another forum last year, so I know that the rules and regs have not changed and were the same last year.  I benched all three of mine in the fabric crates you refer too (and have done so for the last three years), and I had no problems at all. No-one said a word and I make sure they have a few hours completely covered, so that they can get some rest, not a single complaint.

I was not the only one and in my breed, they are now used by a huge proportion of people.  They are also a lot easier to carry/haul into the NEC, as the walk is a bit of a journey and metal crates would be so much heavier...

Hope this helps

Candy x

Do you know what miffs me off the most.  No-one seems to care or consider our dogs in all of this. Who is going to protect our dogs from the public.  I was talking to a lady who has the little brother of the dog I used for my last litter. She went back to her bench to find a rather 'large' lady sat on the bench with her poor dog scrunched up at the back.  She wanted to have photos taken of herself with the dog!. Then later on she went back to find the dog missing off the bench. She then noticed a lady with the dog at the end of the benches with the dog on his collar (no lead) having her photo taken with the dog. The lady didn't think she had done anything wrong until it was pointed out to her that not only should she not touch a dog without permission but also had the dog panicked he would have been free to run around 5 halls without any restraint.  I have to admit that even though this woman apologised I think I would have reported her to security. That would have made her think.
When are the KC going to ensure our dogs welfare and security, never mind the public's feelings and their wanting to be able to see our dogs. They can see our dogs when they are in the ring. It has just become a circus with our dogs being stuck in the middle of it all.
Rant over!!

I hate the way the public are allowed free access to the benching. However as they are, I've learned that the only thing to do is never to leave your dog unattended. It's just not worth it.

I agree - afterall, without the exhibitors and their dogs, there IS no Crufts! TBH I was really surprised when I first heard that the public are allowed free access to the benching area - why for heaven's sake?? There's Discover Dogs for them to see all the different breeds - the dogs who are entered into the show should be left in peace. I've heard that people are often reluctant to leave their bench unattended simply because you just don't know what the public are going to get up to. At least if my lad is in his fabric crate he'll be far more happy and relaxed and wont  have to put up with umpteen faces peering at him and children wanting to say hello. Don't get me wrong, he's a lovely natured, sociable boy, but it's a long old day and I just don't think it's fair!

Anyhow, rant over, I'm glad I can take our trusted crate and not have to lug the heavy metal one around!! :)

Same here always has to be two of you or share the guard duty with another exhibitor.

It's not safe to leave your dog alone anyway, it's not exactly unknown for another exhibitor to cause harm .  Whether the general public are more of a risk I could not say but benched shows are just that, dogs available on view on benches.

It is not really about the dogs anymore , it's mostley or raising money for the fat cats at the top of the chain, if the KC was concerned about the dogs they would let not let the public view them all day they would let them rest, it is after all a long day for them as well as us as they are not allowed out till 4 , most people get up at silly o'clock drive stupid miles and then sit around all day waiting there turn , well so do the dogs ( apart from the driving ), they can get tired and grumpy too!!!
Then after some kid or seven had patted them on the head they have had enough.
The rule that states that the dogs are only allowed off their bench for max half an hour as they have to be on show is really stupid.
We have bullies and newfies , not so bad for the bullies as they are in there cages and we can cover them over , but the newfies never get to rest as they hang off the benches, or get off the benches and lie on the floor as they are hot, they are like people magnets so they don't get a choice , unless i catch the little buggers wiping their choccy hands on them like i did last year.
I know that they have extended crufts this year but i think it's only for trade stands or am i wrong, hope i am wrong as crufts needs more doggie room not more doggie treats.

Echo that peanuts

I have told kids not to touch my dogs as they are tired and may be grumpy only to have the parent say that I shouldn't have brought them.  This is Crufts isn't it not the bouncing baby competition.  Then when you add that you wouldn't let any of your children approach a strange dog without the owners permission they look at you as if you are mad.  It is a terrible thing I think at times like this - just wish they would get one little nip to bring the POINT home.

The thing is, I have a gundog breed and at home they have free access to the house all day, therefore I don't like them being scrunched up on a bench all day.  I take mine around the trade stands so that I can let them stretch their legs. But even with that the public are quite happy to stand all over the dogs in their eagerness to buy all the latest or faddy gadgets.  I just want more consideration for my beloved pets as as everyone so rightly says , without the dogs there is no Crufts. But yes! I will still be going with my girls. However, they enjoy showing and I enjoy showing but I will not leave them unattended as I don't trust any of the public. Bah! humbug.

You'll like this one Alison,

My OH stayed with the dog so I could go off and have a mooch (Crufts) while I was walking round the trade stands I heard one man say and I quote 'This is Bl***y hopeless, you cant get round the place for all these dogs in the way' unquote :rolleyes:

Well, what are all those dogs doing around the trade stands?  They should be in the exercise areas or on the benches when not required in the ring according to the requirements of the KC and the walking areas will have been designed on that understanding.

It is still a dog show only with a fancy name i.e. Crufts.  Do people think that I should pay good money getting my dog qualified so that I can sit with my dog on a bench all day. I think not. The exhibitors and their dogs should be the main priority not the public and the trade stands. I have no intention of having my dogs confined to a small bench and a small area with smelly sawdust for a whole day!

>Do people think

Not "people", the KC who offer entry under their rules.  Choosing to enter anyway and break the rules is one thing but I think complaining about people complaining about the rule breaking is perhaps a tad cheeky :)

Still missing the point. It is a Dog Show.

What point am I missing?  It is a dog show, yes, dogs on exhibition, not dogs shopping.  I don't make the rules, the KC do.  They have obviously considered where they want the dogs to be and they have considered if they wish the public to be able to view those dogs and made their rules accordingly.

So what security do they give our dogs when we are at the benches? I do not believe it is acceptable for a member of the public to remove a dog from its bench for the sake of self gratifying photographs of themselves. Maybe I am naive seems to me the odds are stacked against our dogs and ourselves and really and truly the members of the public are the ones to be considered.  What a good idea, lets have a dog show at Crufts without the dogs.

I think most people either stay with their dogs, bring someone with them or ask a trusted bench neighbour to watch over them.  As I said earlier in the thread, this would apply if the public were there or not as fellow exhibitors have been proved far more dangerous in the past them someone just taking a picture.  I don't believe the public are the ones being considered more highly at all they get very little other than the, rather patchy, quality of the discover dogs section, a stand at the back of ringside behind all the "catalogue reserved" chairs (for my friend who will be back in a minute :rolleyes:) and empty benches for their entry fee and travel expenses.

Unfortunately there will always be sour grapes amongst some exhibitors. However how dangerous is it for a stranger to remove a dog off the bench for a photograph. What if that dog was to panic and break free.  It would be easy enough for a dog to charge past a 'security' guard at one of the doors wilst it is held open and god knows what would happen with a dog loose in that acreage with several motorways surrounding it. No it is not acceptable.

Definately not acceptable :) but, as I say, remove the public and you still have to be concious of security anyway.  From my experience the vast majority of the public just pass along the benches looking or making enquiries of the exhibitors.  Many of them will be erstwhile exhibitors themselves and know what is acceptable, what goes in to preparation, etc.  I think tarring them by the very few badly behaved people is no better than tarring dog owners on behalf of the few bad 'uns.

You often have to go through the stands to get from the entrance to your bench. There are also stands between some of the benches and the rings. The people doing DD and other demonstrations don't have to be benched the whole time ... ;)

With the introduction of Discover Dogs there's absolutely no reason why the public should have access to the benches - the breeds can be seen at close quarters in their separate area.

Also, by the public coming around the benches it leaves us and our dogs with even less space and the aisles in between the benches get overcrowded.

I think you and I know it is not just those passing through ;)  Discover dogs, I find, is very like the curates egg :)

I totally agree with you jeangenie, yes they do have discover dogs for the public to view every breed on the planet more or less, so why do the KC think that every dog at crufts should be entertainment for the non exibitor, like some-one stated we all pay good money all year round to qualify and get to crufts , it should be enjoyable , long day but enjoyable non the less, but it does get worse year after year with more public allowed in and more trade stands.
it would be interesting to know just how many people are allowed into the venue for fire regulations, as the corner we are normally in , behind the stands and rings we would never get out if there was a fire.

Peanuts

DD is no good if you have come for a closer look at a particular dog and how many times do we suggest to people puppy hunting to go to shows and make contact with the breeders of dogs that they like the look of?  I have been accused of missing the point that this is a dog show but I seriously think it is the exhibitors that are in danger of missing that very point :)
The trade stands are a boon when it is your annual supply of vet bed or worming tablets that you are after, as I am sure many exhibitors find, but I do agree that those selling the rather less dog related stuff could be missed out :rolleyes: but I suppose any loss in stall revenue would just mean higher fees for the exhibitors and spectators.
As it is ticket sales it will be easy to monitor that the numbers do not exceed that permitted by the fire certificate.  All the halls appear to have large doors down all sides that I am sure would be opened up if the need arose.

If you want to meet a particular breeder it could easily be organised so that you asked at the entrance to the private benching area and someone could go and find them - much as you do now ("Oh yes, she's over there"). If you want to see a particular dog (which would only be there if it was entered anyway) you could talk to the exhibitor when they came out of the ring. Easy. :)

Mmm, not sure I would describe getting within speaking distance of an exhibitor coming out of the crush of some of the rings easy :) and sometimes you might want a closer look at a dog without speaking to the owner.  When there are several potential breeders stock you want to eye up for instance.  The public are also there, sometimes, to meet up with friends who are exhibiting who may want to take advantage of that and use them for a break out at the stalls themselves so I'm not sure that private benching would be appreciated by all exhibitors either. 

You can't get a proper look at a dog when it's on its bench, so you'd have to speak to the owner anyway. If an exhibitor is meeting friends and would vouch for them, then they could be allowed into the benching area. Just not anyone at any time. It could so easily be organised so that people who wanted to meet could but security would still be tighter than it is now. After all, the public isn't allowed to just stroll around the horse lines at the Horse of the Year Show, or anything like that.

I think that might be more due to the publics safety rather than the horses.  No, you can't get a thorough look at a dog on the benches but together with what you would have seen in the ring it might be enough to determine whether you wish to speak to the exhibitor or not.  I just don't see why the vast majority of the public, who do behave themselves, can be no less trusted than other exhibitors.  It certainly seems that the KC sees it that way and show no signs of changing the status quo :)

The more people there are around the benches, the easier it is for an accident (or deliberate nobbling) to happen. It's more stressful for the dogs, too, being stared at (as we all know, that's an aggressive behaviour to a dog) by strangers.

I have to say we are very particular where we put our cages.  I think the organisers know that the Beardie bunch find it hard sometimes to keep their dogs on Benches, if you have Beardies you will know why, and we are never troubled when we set up in a corner away from the hustle and bustle.  We do get approached around the ring when waiting to go in and thats when we talk to people and let them have a look at the dogs.  We never leave them alone on the benches.

My curiosity about 'real' dog shows - as opposed to the 'fun' church hall type - has been aroused by membership of this forum so me and OH are off to LKA tomorrow to see what it is all about.

I had absolutely no idea ignorant gawpers like us would have 'access all areas'.  I regarded the dogs as the stars and us as the audience with the usual distance kept between the two. How astonishing. You live and learn.

Hi Muttsinbrum,

IMO the show you've chosen is probably the BEST one of the year - except of course for some breed club events :)  It is usually very well laid out, draws entries in many breeds not dissimilar to those of Crufts and has a great fun atmosphere (plus lots of trade stalls too ;) )

Crufts has all but lost the right to call itself a dog show - the dogs in breed classes are very much secondary to the Crufts experience :(   The razzmatazz, shopping and entertainment side of things (by way of special events etc) is what the public are most interested in and so should IMO be kept completely separate and as part of the Discover Dogs event.

That way those members of the public genuinely interested in seeing judging, meeting breeders, assessing their stock and chatting to exhibitors more intimately could do so without everyone getting in a tizzy about it.   Many exhibitors with dogs qualified rarely if ever go to the show - some may go without dogs, others not see the point at all.

I hope you enjoy LKA - a far better run, organised and more user friendly for exhibitors and visitors alike show.  If only the KC would sit up and take note!

regards, Teri