Milo went for a walk with me today on his halti and met another cav now he is usually very good with other dogs but today he greeted the cav well but then made to try and get his halti off then attacked the other dog I was mortified.  He didn't do any damage thankfully mainly it was just the noise and milo on his back feet could this be because of the halti ? he has never done it before he has only had the halti about 3 weeks and hates wearing it.

In what way and how long did you spend introducing him to wearing the halti?

You need a halti on a Cavalier ? They are not a breed suited to head collars having a fairly short muzzle I'm not surprised he doesn't like it I trust you had a collar on with a lead attached as well

Yes we have been going to dog training where we were told to use the halti and they can be little pullers believe me my OH has a bad back so being dragged puts him off walking the halti was introduced in the house it was put on him and he was given treats and we played with his ragger with it on. yes we had collar with lead attached

How long did you take over each stage of the introduction of the halti? If he hates it you may have rushed things a bit. I personally take about 2 weeks from the first try-on (on,treat, off immediately) to walking out with the lead attached to it.

You might have to start the introduction again: on the first day, halti on, treat, off. Do that several times over the day. The second day, if he's happy with that, you can have a slightly longer gap before you take the halti off - time for a couple of treats. When he's happy with that and associates the halti with treats you can put it on him for his meals as well, then take it off immediately afterwards. When he's relaxed with it on then you can start playing games with it on. When he's not bothered with it in the house you can try walking him wearing it, but without the lead attached to it. After a couple of weeks you should be able to attach the lead and he won't mind.

pesto is really brilliant with dogs but one day in Pets at home i had it on her because she always eats the scattered biscuits. anyway we met a dog and she just was growling and snarling. i took it off and she went straight towards it in her usuall friendly manner.
I will not be using it again - she didn't feel like she could act normally.

All dogs can pull unless they are trained not to My Cavaliers have never been allowed to pull, they are trained at home to walk off lead to heel nicely(not competitive heework BTW) using titbits & play so when they have a lead on they have no desire to pull because they want to be with me

I dislike all compulsion methods of training & that includes using a lead to train a dog to walk with you

Like I said Cavaliers are not a breed that haltis or any other head collar is suitable for due to the shape of their head & muzzle length

Halti's, harnesses etc do not"cure"pulling as when they are removed 99% of the dogs go back to pulling they mask the problem.

Firstly if you are determined to use a halti are you using it correctly ? They are for controlling the dogs head(hence the"head collar"status)& should be used with the collar to train the dog I see way to many people using them for controlling the whole dog.

I've only had Cavaliers for 16 years & never had one that couldn't be trained to walk on a loose lead & that includes other people's dogs that have been dragging them around for years

I'm surprised a good trainer has recommended the use of a head collar, they should be able to show you the techniques(very difficult to explain & demonstrate in words)to train your dog not to pull & to want to be with you-relying on a head collar to do this is fudging th training issues

I am 30 now and have grown up with cavaliers to be honest when younger I always had cavs from a puppy and they were trained to walk to heel to be honest I did use to walk my dogs off lead which now i realise is a bad idea.  The two cavs I have now were unwanted so I have inherited other peoples mistakes.
Cindy walks perfectly to heel when we are out Milo needs help with a lot of problems which is why we are going to a dog trainer as they were recommended by both my vets and friends I think I will stick with them as I have already seen results with Milos other problems.
I was just wondering if the halti led to the aggression thanks

Moonmaiden your job is to train dogs so you know what to do, some of us need help and do what we are told by other trainers. You all have different methods of training, and if Cindyloo's mum's trainer told her to use a halti in her class then surely she would of looked stupid to refuse??  The dog has only just started the training classes after all so its early days.

if Cindyloo's mum's trainer told her to use a halti in her class then surely she would of looked stupid to refuse?? 

I think that I may have looked for another trainer. :(  I also had a Cavalier 20 years ago as well as groomed plenty and can't think of one where I would have chosen a Halti.

I do hope that you make progress with him Cindyloo.

This is my second trainer first trainer had cavs jumping through flaming square thing and didn't address any of the behaviour problems we are having.  I will endevor to get Milo to walk to heel without the halti but until then I will use it i was just wondering if this led to his aggression or not?

Can't help with the aggression I'm afraid, but I agree some Cavs can pull like trains - experienced Cav owners / showers are always surprised how strong Henry is! I haven't tried a Halti on him because of the short nose problem, but I admit I haven't tried hard enough to get him to walk nicely on a lead, unless it's on rubber matting in a show ring! My Yankee George occasionally wears one but he's not keen either, haven't noticed it causing aggression though.

With their haltis on I've found that, because my dogs know they can't lunge forward to meet other dogs, they approach more slowly and there's actually less chance of the other dog being alarmed by them approaching and therefore less chance of problems with aggression on either side. :)

However if Milo isn't as content wearing his halti as he is his usual collar then indirectly the halti could be the cause of the problem; not because of the halti per se but because he's generally on edge. Anything that makes a dog feel uneasy is likely to lead to aggression problems.

Thanks Lucy for a bit there I thought mine was the only cav that pulled like a train

All the dogs in this training school wear halti's, unless they don't need them. Milo obviously needs some kind of control.  Cindyloo's mum hasn't much experience with out of control dogs, so is doing as she is told by experienced people, not because she desperately wants to use a halti. All she wants to know is can a Halti cause aggression, not am i right using one.

All the dogs in this training school wear halti's, unless they don't need them

what a very strange training school do they have shares in the Halti company

No dog needs a halti-some owners might need them to help them controlling the dogs head thought if they(the owners) are not being trained properly which appears to be the case here

if Cindyloo's mum's trainer told her to use a halti in her class then surely she would of looked stupid to refuse?? 

I too would be seeking another trainer

Sorry but Haltis are not & never will be suitable for Cavaliers & the retriction on the dog could well be causing the aggression & it could also be totally unrelated

I will repeat my question was she shown how to use the halti correctly ? or just told to use it ?

It is totally out of character for a Cavalier to be aggressive & perhaps this problem needs to be assessed separately to the pulling

Whoever is training the dog needs to go back to very basics & retrain walking to heel on a loose lead, I cannot stress enough that the "handler"should be getting the dogs attention on them & teaching the dog being with them is rewarding & pulling isn't. Cavaliers aren't stupid & quickly learn, but like with any dog it all takes time & effort & using a halti on a breed that are not suitable won't cure the problem

Yes i was shown how to use the halti by my vet.  Milo can be very well behaved when out walking but we live near a beach when walked at the park he is great and recall perfect once at the beach he is just to interested in everything else we have only had him a few months maybe he needs time to get over how excting the beach is all those dogs people and dead things to roll in his recall is none exsistent on the beach and he pulls like a train which people find quite supprising but my last cav was the same my friends where all shocked by how strong he was for a smallish dog.  My oh has severe back problems I will not have him dragged round by Milo the other option would be for Milo not to be walked by OH which would be shame for both of them.

Not wanting to get involved really but I've just looked up the halti size guide (on the Company of Animals site) and a cavalier spaniel is marked as a size 1, and a king charles spaniel as "not recommended". Are these two different breeds then? I always thought it was the same dog! :rolleyes: They also have pigs, sheep, and goats in the list! How bizarre :P

yes a king charles is smaller than a cav with an even shorter muzzle

The King Charles Spaniel is brachycephalic ie has virtually no muzzle at all(like a pug) The Cavalier King Charles Spaniel has a longer muzzle but still quite short & IMO & several other dog(not people)trainers too short for a halti to be used in the manner in which it was designed

Aaah, thanks for that - it's obviously two different dogs seeing the pics side by side! :)

I couldn't imagine putting a headcollar on my cavalier, it would ride up into his eyes as easy as anything (and with those large bulging eyes seems dangerous to me) -and especially not a Halti which is sharp and tend to ride into eyes anyway......compared to other makes such as Gentle Leader for instance. Also with the dog so low down and the lead going under the dog's chin, unless you crawl along on your tummy <grin> you will naturally pull the headcollar upwards and again towards eyes and make it less effective.  I know I've seen pictures somewhere of one headcollar where you fasten the lead at the back of the neck, now that would make far more sense for a small dog. Still could not imagine it for a cavalier though.

Doesn't the gentle leader go over the muzzle to?  The other harness we looked at went under his front legs and put pressure there which I know from my bitch is a sensitive area as when she gets her lead under her front leg she yelps and panics

Yes but the fabric of the Halti is much harder and sharper than of any other headcollar I've seen, the Genle Leader is much softer, and Halti is the one that tends to ride up into the eyes more than ohter brands.

> Halti is the one that tends to ride up into the eyes more

Yes, that's what I found when I had a halti (one of the dogs found it and chewed it up so I guess they were having their say ;) ). When I use a head collar at all now I use a gentle leader, it is softer and if fitted correctly doesn't ride up like that. Haven't tried any other types, as they're something I prefer to avoid using if possible. :)

The Canny Collar has the lead fastening behind the head, and is described as suitable for all breeds. Never had much success with haltis myself - ended up trying 3 different sizes on my Dobe (even though I was sure I had the "correct" one to begin with!) but they all rode up into his eyes and rubbed across his nose. I've used a canny collar (and just about every other headcollar going :rolleyes:) and that was my favourite in terms of fit/comfort for the dog, and control. I just use a half-check now.

Thanks Zarah I will look into that.

I also have to recommend the canny collar which I use at firework time (most days at the moment unfortunately) as it doesn't ride up and has the lead at the back of the head so there is no jerking if the dog is spooked.

Some dogs are more likely to be aggressive when on lead as they know they can't escape if another dog approaches them, and a halti restricts their head and facial expressions so might make a dog more nervous about being approached and therefore more aggressive. Is Milo nervous about other dogs?

Thanks no Milo isn't nervous with other dogs one of his behaviour problems is that when we are out he is so excited to see other dogs he barks very loudly until he can get close and say hello but other owners sometimes take his barking as a sign of aggression when off the lead he does not bark at other dogs he just trotts over to say hello he loves meeting and greeting but I have found some owners to be hostile when they mistake his exuberance for aggression and to be honest some people just can't handle the level of noise he makes which I can understand as it can be quite high pitched.  We met a gent with two cavs the other week who told me to accept the noise as that is what cavs do then he smacked his for making it I have had vocal cavs before but this is almost manic which is why we are going to a trainer.  Strangely I think i would be heart broken if he shut up completly as the noise is part of Milo but I agree it can't continue as it is or we will end up falling out with our neighbours.  He was rehomed to us because his last 3 homes couldn't cope with the noise.
 

I'm inclined to think that Milo's behaviour won't improve all the time he's wearing a Halti which I must confess I've thought would be suitable for a cav. If he's already excitable (and I suspect some of your nervousness goes "down the lead") and is now uncomfortable as well then the poor lad is rather up against it. You also say your last Cav pulled and I'm wondering whether there's a pattern here - not that I'm in any way accusing you of encouraging your dogs to pull!

I'm also rather concerned about a trainer that insists all dogs wear one since for sure, I'd never put Nips into anything that I didn't consider necessary to aid sensible and well mannered walking.

I have never been nervouse with Milo as up until this happened he has always ben great with other dogs.  My last Cav was a rescue with a bad history and i made the decission not to do any real training with him as he had such a bad start in life I just gave into everything he wanted I never bothered with his pulling as I am quite a large lady and one small cav wasn't going to drag me any where but I lived on my own then and Charlies behaviour was my problem only he was very aggresive with other dogs so we walked where we would meet a very few. 
Milo is a lot younger than Charlie was and I share my life with my OH who I must admit was wonderful with Charlie when he met him and accepted my strong bond with him.  However my OH has a spine deformity and has a lot of pain in his back so Milo needs to walk gently with him. 
My trainer does not expect every dog to wear a halti as there is a tiny yorkie in our group that obviously doesn't wear one they are trying to teach a whole group of people how to deal with our dogs we are in the basic class now once Milo can walk well to heel I will not use any restraint but the lead.

Your Milo sounds a bit like Henry - my OH is driven mad by the 'singing' each morning as soon as I get downstairs, which gets more and more excited as I put my shoes on, get the treat bag ready, get their harnesses on etc (car harnesses, not haltis!). BTW MM, while I agree that in a perfect world we would all be trained properly and would get our dogs properly under control on a loose lead, and I know I haven't done this properly with Henry, feel free to come and feel how strong he is when he does pull some time at a show! I know he shouldn't pull, but when he does he's pretty strong, and my Yankee is much stronger! :-)