hey ppl,i have a new stafy pup,i have her on beta puppy food,which i thought was a good quality food??? but i was told that its no use so now im confused weather to feed her it any more or what to feed her instead?? she likes it and i mix it with bits of dried meat which she loves shes growing fast and seems to be of a good build for a pup any advice would be great,il try post a pic of her if ya can post pics on the forum??

Many dogs do extremely well on Beta. Unless someone's examined your dog and has found something amiss, then they don't know whether what you're feeding is right. ;) If your dog's thriving and growing well, I wouldn't worry. Just make sure she has free access to fresh water at all times; dogs need to drink a lot when they're eating dried food.

What breed is she?

Staffy? ;)

Oops! Misread it as something else! :o

yea shes a staffy pup,i thought bet was 1 of the best foods? but ppl r telling me that james beloved is far better and that beta is crap my dogs always have fresh water avaliable as i free feed them and they have loads of water i have 2 boxer dogs also but they get fed pedro gold fresh meat and hearts and chicken and stuff they love it

Ah, ppl! ;)

wat you mean?

If we relied entirely on what "ppl" told us would could do away with science couldn't we :)

yea but i think the forums are good ta post abourt feeding as there is that many brands on the market ya cant try them all so asking advice is the best ta do i think,i guess if ya feed good food its better for your dog and gets it a good start in life and healthy bones and a good coat,what do yas think about giving your dog salmon oil? i give my dogs salmon oil capsules every day,it gives them a good shiny coat and they dont smell as much,i no many of ppl give cod liver oil but i dont i perfer salmon oil

No I don't give anything extra as Beta is a complete food.  Unless the dog has joint problems I don't see the point of given additives to alleviate them and extra vitamins are just wasted as anything over the requirement are excreted or, in the case of one or two vitamins, dangerously built up in the body.

You should treat advice given on forums as you would the advice given to you by a stranger at a bus-stop; ie, think about it then make up your own mind. :)

The best dog food is one that suits your dog, your lifestyle and your pocket - not other people! ;)

yea i no that but i dont want ta feed me dog crap if yo no wat i mean,can cause problems bad degistion and all tha stuff i no a guy who gives his pressa canario dogs bread and milk and a load of meat every day thats all and thats bound ta be bad for the animal

>i dont want ta feed me dog crap if yo no wat i mean

Just about :)
No I don't suppose the guys diet is a good one but Beta is devised by qualified nutritionists not a guy or unaccountable, unqualified people on the internet.  Who would you rather trust and take advise from?

no i wouldnt listen ta some random guy of the street,i go on by the rep of the brand and reviews from vets and trained ppl in the indusrty,i was just askin about beta as it was posted on an american forum that beta and pedigree was rubbish for dogs and they came up with all dsorts of reasons about the ingredients,but they all fed barf or a raw diet so i guess thats pretty much why?

>can cause problems bad degistion and all tha stuff

Does your dog have 'bad digestion'?

no my dog has great digestion they all are fine,i have 1 bitch that is on a special tined food that i get from the vets every week thats for poor digestion as when she was a pup she eat stuff and had to get a couple of ops and it left her with poor digestion

Then if your dog has great digestion, why risk upsetting it?

no i dont intend to,i was just wondering weather beta was a good food to start my pup on,i guess it is from all the replys lol have i started sumfin im gunna regret lol,this is the best uk forum i have found on the net all the rest are u.s forums and they dont feed beta or anything thet are all in to that timberwolf gear and the rest they all say u.k foods are rubbish in it lol

I'm afraid there are food fascists this side of the Atlantic too, but they're fairly easy to spot by the way they assume that they know people's dogs better than the owners!

My dogs have done very well on Beta. One, with a poor history of colitis, lived to over 15 eating it for most of her life after we found it suited her.  My present dog is now 12 and thriving on it :)  I have also reared healthy litters on the Beta puppy diet. 
The internet is peppered with people who do not think we should feed this or that but in the UK the pet food industry is well regulated and all foods will be perfectly safe and have all the elements necessary to meet your dogs nutritional needs.  All we are left to do is find a food that suits our dog, most of them will suit most dogs.  Having found one to suit I see no reason why you should change because of what others, who are often unqualified to judge, think :)

There are people on this forum who have changed their dog's to JWB and found that it doesn't suit them. Horses for courses - what suits one will not suit another.  If you are happy that your dog is making good progress and is happy, fit and healthy then why change because other owners have decided what is good and what is not good?  It's just their opinion.  All the dog foods vary in content but generally they are complete which means that they include everything a dog needs however if you want to give little extras my opinion is there is no harm in it providing that you adjust the daily complete food allowance so that your dog doesn't get fat.  My dog gets scraps from our plates (if she's lucky ;)) and also raw carrot tops, broccoli stalks and the odd bruised apple. She doesn't need these extras, they are just treats.

yea i do the same lol but i dont do it to often i dont want her ta start begging when ppl are eating lol,i will just keep her on the food i think shes comeing along well on it,i just posted looking advice thanks

Just thought i'd say that I have a 9 month old Stafford who has always been fed on Beta as well as all the dogs/litters my breeder has had and there have never been any problems i'm glad to say... :D But again as others have said it's entirely up to you and your dogs as to what you feed them ;-)

Da brain can you post the first 5-10 ingredients of beta? I have scoured the internet for them but it seems the makers of this 'wonderful' food arent to keen to publicise the ingredients.....

If you think looking into it with that depth is useful perhaps it would help Da brain if you listed your qualifications in the field of canine nutrition too :)

A lot of dogs do better on what is considered rubbish than so called quality foods, I know so cause we had one. It's like the other posters have already said, it's horses for courses.

>A lot of dogs do better on what is considered rubbish than so called quality foods<

Alot of dogs?Or just your dog? I've heard people call bakers etc quality foods..... :rolleyes:

Isabel you dont need any qualifications to know what dogs do and do not need in their food.It's not that hard,really it isnt :) Just takes some common sense and an interest in the health and well being of your dog.

Just a little example of 2 very different foods:

Ground yellow corn, chicken by-product meal, corn gluten meal, whole wheat flour, beef tallow preserved with mixed-tocopherols (source of Vitamin E), rice flour, beef, soy flour, sugar, sorbitol, tricalcium phosphate, water, animal digest, salt, phosphoric acid, potassium chloride, dicalcium phosphate, sorbic acid (a preservative), L-Lysine monohydrochloride, dried peas, dried carrots, calcium carbonate, calcium propionate (a preservative), choline chloride, vitamin supplements (E, A, B-12, D-3), added color (Yellow 5, Red 40, Yellow 6, Blue 2), DL-Methionine,
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Chicken Meal, Fresh Chicken, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and rosemary extract), Low Ash Salmon Meal, Potatoes, Sardine/Mackerel/Anchovy/Tuna Oils (preserved with mixed tocopherols and rosemary extract) Eggs, Dried Chicken Liver, Dried Whole Milk, Dried Whey Extract, Kelp, Alfalfa Leaf, Casein, DL &#65535; Methionine, Potassium Chloride, Lecithin, Taurine, Lysine, Carnitine, Choline Chloride, Creatine, Probiotics:

Now,it doesnt take a canine nutritionist to recognise the better and healthier food,i could not and would not except my dog to eat or thrive on the first example.Dogs are very resiliant creatures,born scavengers who can eat day old rotting carcases and still still survive just fine.It's obviously not the best way to feed a dog,but they'll survive,how healthily is objectionable.......

>Alot of dogs?Or just your dog? I've heard people call bakers etc quality foods.....

What are the actual stats then?  You don't need qualifications to work out that sales of Bakers etc justify their place in the market.  These are foods that are sold in supermarkets as well as pet shops and not only suit the dogs that are fed them but also the pockets of the owners of the dogs being fed.  If the dogs being fed are happy and healthy on these foods and the owners are happy with it then what's the problem? 

>and would not except my dog to eat or thrive on the first example

and you don't have to but if any other dog is seen to be thriving on these foods then who are you to say it's no good?  Obviously it suits the dogs being fed these foods.

>It's obviously not the best way to feed a dog,but they'll survive,how healthily is objectionable.......

What are the health risks attributable to the different brands of foods? 

Ktee you are a purist and there is nothing wrong with that, it keeps you happy and your dogs healthy but you have to accept that the majority of pet owners are just looking for a complete food that suits their dogs and their pockets.  While this forum is here to band about opinions based on experience it is not here to make other pet owners feel inadequate or guilty about the foods they are feeding their dogs just because 1 or 2 unqualified people have decided that their way is the best way.

While this forum is here to band about opinions based on experience it is not here to make other pet owners feel inadequate or guilty about the foods they are feeding their dogs just because 1 or 2 unqualified people have decided that their way is the best way

Totally agree Cheryl. There's absolutely nothing wrong with discussing various foods and sharing experiences but there is a growing trend for threads on the Food board to degenerate into point scoring arguments with one or two members seemingly determined to force their views on others. It's fine to give opinions when asked for but there has to be respect for others who don't share the same opinions - you cannot make someone share your views by continually ramming them down peoples' throats (in fact it's more likely to have the opposite effect). I'm sure I will have to lock this thread soon but it would nice if for once I didn't have to!

>only suit the dogs that are fed them but also the pockets of the owners of the dogs being fed.<

The last sentence seems to be the all important factor :( My neighbour feeds bakers,he says it suits his dog and they do well on it,never mind the scurfy coats,rancid breath,cow paddy's in the backyard or the red,yeasty ears,they are all "normal" doggy things,so he says :rolleyes: If a dog does indeed do well on bakers,beta and the rest,then there is no question in my mind that if put on a more species appropriate diet their health would sky rocket.Maybe they wont succumb to cancer or kidney/liver disease,or be crippled with arthritis that most owners write off as old age,breed specific or just oine of those things.

>then who are you to say it's no good? <

Anyone with a half a brain when it comes to canine nutriton would say it's no good!Not just me.

>What are the health risks attributable to the different brands of foods?<

Those are obvious and too many to list here,the same problems afflict dogs as do humans who live on poor diets.

>Ktee you are a purist <

What on earth is that!?

>to accept that the majority of pet owners are just looking for a complete food that suits their dogs and their pockets.<

Yes,unfortunately,i agree.But when given the chance i will try and put accross the fact that feeding their dogs takes a bit more care than the price and what easiest available at the time.

As to making owners feel inadequite and guilty,LOL. I cant do that,if they feel inadequite or guilty about what they feed their dogs,than obviously they have an inkling that somethings wrong with it..... No one could make me feel either of those things as i know i cant feed my dogs any better than i am already doing :)
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>I'm sure I will have to lock this thread soon but it would nice if for once I didn't have to!<

Jane put that padlock away! :D You dont have to stifle or censor another interesting debate for no reason.So many interesting and educational threads get locked here or just up and disapear This thread as well as all the others that have been locked could prove to help dog owners who have no clue about nutrition.Why would you want to put a stop to that? :( Debates will happen when people disagree,but there's been no name calling,no nastiness,just each others views,whats so wrong with that?

Jane put that padlock away! :-D You dont have to stifle or censor another interesting debate for no reason.So many interesting and educational threads get locked here or just up and disapear confused

Maybe you should be a bit friendlier then! The rest of your reply right there certainly came across as very aggressive. It seems to me each and every time this debate starts up, those people that feel complete, cheap foods are the root of all evil can never put their point across in a friendly way, which makes me for one a LOT less likely to want to listen to that side of the argument....... Look at how calmly Isabel puts her views across as an example of how it should be done. :) It's like dog training! Force gets you nowhere!

Marianne i think the more passionate one is about a subject, the more aggressive or full on they come accross,even though i dont have an agressive bone in my body,nor do i waste my words purely to get someones back up. I'm not really interested in training/behaviour postings,there you will see calm views put accross by me :) People who's interest doesnt lie in nutrition will never get it IMO.

You see calm,i see condescending ;)

I doubt anyone would post here if they were not interested in nutrition and I am sure we are all passionate about our dogs health.  As Marianne says you do not need to be aggressive or full on nor does that prove a greater amount of care for the subject.  I don't believe any of my posts have been  condescending to you and I think you are in danger of leading this thread to be locked as personal comments of that nature do not make a good debate.

>as personal comments of that nature do not make a good debate.<

Agreed would you say being called a purist and aggressive is personal then?

Ok, if my bowing out of this thread will prevent it from getting locked,than i shall oblige,it's worth it :) This thread has been of no use if people cant come on and ask questions about what has been discussed.

How can a dog's health sky rocket from living to the age of 15?  Your neighbour may not be able to recognise that a food does not suit his dog but I think the posters on this forum generally do, particularly those that show and breed, you simply can't do that with any success when a dog is in the state you describe.
I think the people who formulate these diets have more than half a brain and, indeed, have the qualifications to show for it :)

>I think the people who formulate these diets have more than half a brain<

Indded they do,they are paid to create something sustainable out of pure waste product. Genius!!

Sustainable?  Not once my dogs have got their noses into it :)

A purist is one who desires that a particular item remain true to its essence and free from adulterating or diluting influences. The term may be used in almost any field, and can be applied either to the self or to others. Use of the term may be either pejorative or complimentary, depending on context. Because the appellation depends on subjective notions of what is "pure" as opposed to "adulterating" as applied to any particular item, conflict can arise both as to whether a person so labeled is actually a purist and as to whether that is desirable. Wikipedia

In the context of the sentence it is clear that I was not using purist as an insult. However, It seems insults are not beneath you and please don't patronise the rest of the board by trying to excuse insults as passion :rolleyes:

>My neighbour feeds bakers,he says it suits his dog and they do well on it,never mind the scurfy coats,rancid breath,cow paddy's in the backyard or the red,yeasty ears,they are all "normal" doggy things,so he says

That is just one dog owner so you can't generalise to the rest of the population of owners or dogs, that would be silly wouldn't it? If the owner considered the health of his dogs seriously he would try to find out what is causing the health problems.  It may well be the food he is feeding in which case if he cared about his dogs he would change the food.  This isn't what the thread is about though is it Ktee? The OP does care about his dog and finds that his dog is happy and healthy on the food he is feeding her so there is no comparison between your example and the OP and his dog.

>Those are obvious and too many to list here,the same problems afflict dogs as do humans who live on poor diets.

You're so quick to be judgmental and yet the most relevant questions you evade. If you are so passionate about dog nutrition and are oh so knowledgeable on the subject then I think you would be failing if you did  not answer the most salient questions put to you, especially considering how forthright you are in condescending anyone that challenges your viewpoint/opinion/ideas (that's all they are until you back them up with evidence)

>But when given the chance i will try and put accross the fact that feeding their dogs takes a bit more care than the price and what easiest available at the time

What you are saying here is "it's my way or the highway" even though there are plenty of dogs who survive and thrive on the brands you detest.  What you are saying is that if anyone can't afford the time and money ontheir dog that you can, Ktee, they shouldn't have a dog?  How condescending is that?

I personally feel that giving the impression of criticising a person for feeding their dog in a way that suits both dog and owner, but happens to differ from your own personal choice, is hardly the best way to go.

Jane put that padlock away!  You dont have to stifle or censor another interesting debate for no reason.So many interesting and educational threads get locked here or just up and disapear

I don't stifle or censor but I'm not going to allow the kind of tit for tat arguments that have become a feature of many of the threads on this board. You may not realise it but you express your views in such a way that it's clear that you believe anyone who does not share your beliefs is a fool or needs educating which instantly gets peoples' backs up. I'm a member of a breed forum where there are also passionate raw feeders but they manage to get their views across without rubbishing those who don't feed raw which makes for far more interesting discussions. People are more likely to listen if they don't feel they are being lectured to - something you might like to think about ;-) And Yes I am getting my padlock out again!

I don't think it would take an expert to recognise the better and healthier food in the example you give because they are both perfectly good foods devised by experts.  If you have any evidence to suggest they would be detrimental to any dog not intolerant of any ingredient you should report them to the food agencies.
I think surviving to their 16th year in obviously good health, other than to be expected in extreme old age, will do for mine :)