My Springer is 14 months old now and when we meet another dog I always put her on the lead, or better said take the long line short after practising recall.   Just recently, in fact since she started her first season about mid August, she sometimes barks when she meets another dog.  I can not get her attention away from another dog, I always lost and lose the battle.  Sometimes I ask the other owner whether their dog is friendly and when they agree I let her off the lead (not when she is barking though, I don't want to reward the barking).   But most of the time I don't bother asking and let the strange dog & owner pass without speaking to him/her.   I feel a bit bad, because I feel my dog is socially starved, on the other hand I read that if puppies enjoy a lot of play with other dogs they ignore their owner more when there is a dog about.  I still take her to training classes, but of course not for playing, but for obendience.  Sometimes I wonder whether I should just let her run towards a strange dog which is off the lead, although I always thought that this is wrong.  Most dogs we meet are off lead, but to be fair to them, they normally not interested to say hello to my dog.    My dog wouldn't do that, but she would charge towards it, ignore my recall and try to initiate a game with the other dog, pretty much face on as well.   That's the reason why I take the long line short and make her sit when another dog approaches us.  I'm afraid I do it all wrong and she might get aggressive in the end.  She might be awfully frustrated, hence the barking.   If we meet a dog I know is friendly, I practise the recall, but as a reward I take the long line off and tell her to 'go on', so she runs and meets the other (known) dog.  I only did that a few times though.  
What shall I do?   I'm afraid in restricting her meeting other dogs freely she gets aggressive or whatever.     It's not that she never plays with other dogs, she does get the opportunity.  She is still good with dogs and friendly but I'm worried I do things wrong.

Edited to say, that I'm back on the forum on Monday (just in case somebody asks me a question)

Hokay....

Yes, she does need to play and meet other dogs to socialise, yes if this isnt done properly you run the risk of bad experiences. Ditto staying on the lead though.

Ask other owners of off lead dogs if your dog can play. Let her play, and if shes not got a good recall DONT waste your breath trying to yell at her to come back, GO and get her, with a nice treat, when you want the game to end. If it turns into a game of chase, then stop, do something more interesting (say with a squeaky toy).

She does really need a good recall first, but obviously unless you stop walkign where there are other dogs you are then giong to have to keep her on the lead or risk her ignoring a recall command.

Id suggest you do a recall walk, where you spend time working on that and not playing, and a playing walk, where shes allowed to play with suitable dogs and you DONT use the recall command at all (if its not fully there using it and it being ignored will make it worse), as long as thats safe for you to do.

What are you using to keep her interested in YOU?

Its probably not good enough just to ask her, shes young and bouncy and wants to play so unless you have a great toy up your sleeve that you save ONLY for when you want her undivided attention (ie when you see another dog coming), or a very yummy food treat (squeezy cheese, tiny bits of liver cake, tiny bits of hotdog sausage etc), shes probably not going to be interested.

Puppies who enjoy lots of play with other dogs generally grow up to be sociable, friendly dogs, UNLESS... they are allowed to dominate and bully other dogs, or generally be a pain in the bottom.

I wouldnt allow her to run up to a strange dog who is off lead, but id ask if it was ok. YOu do run the risk that its not ok, but she IS goign to have tgo learn that some dogs are great, some are ok and some are horrid - hopefully you do as much as you can to prevent her coming across horrid ones but you cant keep her on a lead forever simply to prevent that happening.

Once you have a recall, and she associates seeing other dogs with you playing a game or handing out a treat, you can vary the reward. Dont ever let her get too sure of what you will do, sometimes you ask her to sit and play with you before she goes, sometimes she can go play but has to come back for a treat - this will keep her guessing and interested in YOU as well as other dogs.

HTH

Em

I feel a bit bad, because I feel my dog is socially starved, on the other hand I read that if puppies enjoy a lot of play with other dogs they ignore their owner more when there is a dog about

Hiya,

I don't know where you've read this but personally I think this is the wrong way around - when my girl was 3/4/5/ months old I got her used to playing with all sorts of dogs (supervised and with other owners permission) and at first they were very novel and much more interesting than me, I didn't try recalling her in the middle of a game, I either waited till she was finished or went and got her.  Much as she still loves other dogs she gets to play with them on a daily /weekly basis so they aren't so novel any more and I can recall her from any game no problem.  She has great recall which has taken lots of work, and I continue to reinforce good recalls daily.  Try and find a group of friendly dogs that walk regularly maybe someone from your class will no of people who meet up and let her have some fun while working on a good strong recall. 
I've noticed you post on here before with regards to recall and you seem to have been stuck with this problem for quite a while, maybe your rewards aren't high enough value or your not rewarding at the right time - can you maybe get someone knowledgeable to watch what your doing just to see if there is an obvious reason why it's not clicking.

All the best,

Karen

Thanks to both of you for your replies.
The recall is actually not the problem as such.  When she plays or socialises with another dog and I call her, she comes.  Even more so when I continue the walk, there is no poroblem with that.  The recall is only a problem when she sees another dog in the distance and she starts running (and I mean running) towards it, I'm not able to stop her in full flight.  That's why I use a long line to practise this and on the long line she is actually quite good.  When I wrote, that I can't get her attention away from another dog than I meant (sorry, that I didn't explain that.  This was silly of me!)  when a dog approaches us, I make her sit (otherwise she pulls towards it and I don't want to reinforce the pulling) and try to keep her attention onto me (in actual fact maybe I'm stupid to expect her to give attention to me in that situation.  When I think about it, in the training class we train our dogs to say hello quickly and turn back to the owner when requested).  The things I use for rewards are beef stripes (which hshe absolutely loves) and soon I get dome pheasant wings.  Use also toys  for that.
Hmm, I think my problem is, that my dog would run with 100 miles per hour towards every dog she meets on a walk (if I let her) and at that point I would be unable to get her attention.   And because of that, I always shorten the long line and rather let the other dog approach us.  But I'm afraid that this is wrong.
Difficult to say, but I think that sums it up.  Sorry if I didn't explain myself in the original post.

Ah, thats a bit clearer.

For now, there isnt any point trying to recall her when shes already committed to running up to another dog. Instead, pre-empt it and ask her to wait (on a long line first and work up to off lead). 
Seperately, work on distance control, where you teach her to stop, down, stay or recall at a distance, then at a walk awa from you, then when running to you or away from you, without distractions.

Em

The 'wait' is a very good idea, because she knows that command and does it quite well (wait - fetch, wait - come, wait - find it, wait - on you go).  I got so stuck with the situation I was asking advise for and never thought about to ask her to wait.  When you say I should ask her to wait first on the long line, can you describe exactly how I should do it?  Because of the danger that the dogs get entangled I take the long line short (like a normal short lead) when we meet another dog.  Should I allow her to run and meet the dogs she met before and take her full on approach friendly.  I mean, should I ask her to wait, then clip the long line off and let her run?   Should I make her sit and let strange dogs (off lead) approach us?  Often the dogs are in front of their owners so I have to make my dog sit and we have to wait till I can speak to the owner (about let my dog play with theirs).  Well that's the way I do it so far, if I ask them.   Is that the right thing to do:rolleyes:?
Sorry if I need an idiot proof answer here
BTW the 'dog is socially starved' I read in Jean Donaldson's 'Culture Clash' and worry since about it.

Right

The long line is just so you can back up your command if needs be, so have it short but loose so its up to HER to wait, not you to hold her back.

This means if something DOES go wrong, either she ignores the wait and goes to run,  you can stop her, or if teh approaching dogs are not friendly and go to attack she wont feel trapped by a short lead (if htat happens and you are in an otherwise safe place id let GO of the lead and let her run away from them as thats less scary than both you and she defending yourselves against them, you can always get her back again and the long line trailing means even if she wont come close to you, you stand a chance of getting her back).

I wouldnt ask her to sit, let her meet dogs whatever way she feels most comfy - it may be that shew ill sit anyway some bitchs learn to do that to avoid being rudely sniffed up the bum!, The aim should be to let her meet dogs in a controlled fashion, yet 'natural' so that she can display whatever body language necessary.

If there are other dogs she knows well, their owners are happy for the dogs to play, then id ask her to wait and then release her to play. Sometimes ask her to wait for just a second, sometiems a minute, sometimes a sit first, sometimes no sit, just off you go - that keeps her interest in you as well, and will stop her pre-empting you, and teach her that she will be expected to do something, rather than just zoom off and play teh second she sees a dog.

With dogs she doesnt know, well its RUDE for their owners to allow their dogs to come hurtling up to her if shes  on a lead (or even under close heel type control). Id ask her to wait, step in front of her and ask the other owners if its ok if she plays.

You do still run the risk that the other dogs might not be friendly, but thats a risk we all take as no dog will love EVERY other dog it meets - at least if she meets these dogs off lead she can deal with them appropriately and never learn to lunge and be defensive on the lead.

Using the long line when doing this id alternate her between being fairly 'free' and being close to you - you can let it trail (it should have no loops in the end so its less likely to snag on anything), adn stand on it if needs be, or hold it shorter if you need to. Thsi way you can get her used to being ahead sometimes, close to you at others, and waiting to be let off, without the risk of you using a command that is then ignored.

One thing you should practice (you might not need to mind).... watch her closely, see if you can determine the split second moment between 'see something' and 'definately going to run over to it'. There should be one, and thats the second you need to get that 'wait!' command in. Its very likely to be ignored if you leave it till shes decided 'definately going to run over'.

All my dogs are different in showing this momet - the saluki is easiest, her ears give her away, 'at ease' for 'seen nothing'..... 'half mast' for 'mm praps there is a cat there, maybe i dunno...' and 'full mast airplane ears out sideways' for 'CAT ZOOM WHEEE'

Any command given in the first two stages are complied with as usual (although shes a saluki so read 'usual' as 'considered, weighing up odds and mood and colour of underwear and wot day of week it is)... anything given in the latter stage simply isnt heard, once shes locked on to that thign to chase, the connection btween brain and ears is firmly OFF.

Hth

Em

Thank you very much for your reply - most appreciated!
About your seventh paragraph, yes, the long line has no loop at the end.  I'm always terrified the dogs could get entangled though...maybe they couldn't when the other dog is without lead?  I'm very happy for her to meet dogs freely within my 10 meter long line range, so to speak.   So you mean I should give her lets say five meter for example when meeting a dog?     I just hate it, when she just runs away for fifty meters because there is something more interesting over there     I would love to have a dog who waits for permission to go and see other dogs or leaves them when told.  I must be as mad as my springer, to have such a high goal:rolleyes:, but anyway...I can only try.

Edited to say, it is a very good point that there is a moment where the dogs see's something but doesn't bother quite yet to run for it and the moment where it def. decided it's worth loosing a good treat and go for it.  I always thought it is distance.

i have basically the same problem as you with my girl, she is completly focused on me until she spots a dog out of the corner of her eye and then nothing I can do can get her back and she makes all these stupid noises that sounds like she is aggressive so no dog owner wants their dog to meet her.  I take her to obedience classes and we did an excersise where we had to keep the dogs attention on us while new dogs (from the more advanced class) went around us and I kept her attention on me all the time. probably because I had already got her attention before the dogs came in the room. Problem is, I can not spot every dog in the park before she does, I try but it is difficult. and she gets very frustrated when she can not meet any of the dogs, even though she wants to play. wih her, the change in when she sees a dog and when she goes a bit mad, is a very tiny one and I have only been able to catch it a couple of times.

trouble is, out in the fields they know theres a chance they will be able to play and are more hopeful but in the training hall they know they are there to work, its so hard to make them concentrate in a play environment.:rolleyes:

Id let the lead trail on the floor for yeah, say 3 -5 meters when shes greeting another dog close to you, once you know that they are safe together and it only really takes a few minutes for them to decide they like or dislike one another, you can then let her off if thts what you want, or pick up the lead and carry on walking if you prefer.

When you say she runs away too far for your comfort, is that only when meeting other dogs or in general.

If its in general, then practice recalling and also playing hide and seek with her where when shes not looking, you LEG IT and hide adn she looks and goes 'oh hes GONE' and comes to find you.

Often dogs are very complacent, they think we will always be where we were when they left us, they dont expect us to be elsewhere and even more so when you consider most of us do the same routes round the same walks wtih little variation, so they can predict where we will be and if not, well they know the area so its not a bi g deal to them.

Vary things, keep her guessing, sometimes turn aroundand run off yelling 'wheeeeeeee' and reward her when she comes haring abck to you, hide etc.

Em

She generally stays close to me (within 15 meters).  I actually always did that what you're saying (suddenly turning round when she's ahead and not looking, hiding when she's not looking etc.).  If she's in the undergrow and I keep walking and I call her after 30 meters she pops out and runs with great speed to me.  She runs out of my comfort zone (as you put it correctly) when she sees a dog in the distance (or something else which atracts her attention in a great deal).  
This morning I met two dogs (seperatly).  Both dogs were off lead.  Both came trotting over to us and I let my dog meet them (on the lead/long line) in the body position of her choice (I didn't tell her to sit).  I asked the owners whether I can let my dog off and they each agreed.  I did the wait thing as well.  One dog was a big golden Lab (five years old), that was fine.  Now, later on the other dog was a seven month old Collie pup, which was in no way interested but in his stick.  My dog was fine and they greeted each other okay, but then my dog did something she started doing only very recently:  she started chasing the pup and growled.  They went round in a circle.  I called my dog to put an end to that (I felt somewhat embarassed), she came  and I put her back on the lead and had a chat with the man.  She did that once before with me when my husband was there as well, with another Springer pup.  My husband said, he noticed that when the other dog is smaller than our dog, she can be a bit growly.  Hmm, why is she doing that now?  She actually didn't have bad experiences when she was a pup except maybe twice when dogs growled at her (again she was on a lead and the dogs where off lead), but could that be the reason?  I don't know whether it's a serious 'I don't like you' growl or whether it's a 'I'm excited' growl.  Doesn't sound good in my ears any way.   How shall I deal with this?  In the original post I wrote my dog is friendly and she always was friendly.  I hope this is not a thing in the past.   In the training class we're going since she is little, she is probably the friendliest dog in the group.  She doesn't snap at other dogs at all.  I'm a bit confused here. 
Sorry if I go on, but would appreciate advise greatly.

Very hard to say wtih out seeing her (and probably just as hard if i did!)...

Some dogs growl when they actually mean 'hello lets play' - one of mine does that to people and it sounds AWFUL but no malice is intended.

I would hazard a guess that its her way of telling smaller dogs 'i am the boss' - so id manage it as if it were that, and if she does it and the other dog hasnt done anything to warrant it other than being smaller or younger, id call her away, no play for her if she wants to be 'mean'. Still reward her for coming away though, that has to remain a positive thing.

If its a reaction to a puppy or smaller dog being rude or something thats a bit different and as long as shes simply stating her case i wouldnt over react, just give her a 'come on lets go and find nice puppies' sort of a recall.

Monitor the situation and keep an open mind (although obviously keep safe too) and see if you can pinpoint more clearly what it is abotu certain dogs that sets off thsi reaction from her. It could be that smaller dogs unnerve her for whatever reason (one of mine finds tiny dogs absolutely terrifying purely because they are TINY), it may be its puppies that unnerve her, some dogs dont like them.

Her reaction doesnt seem particularly extreme although id stop her before she chased them, i wouldnt go OTT about doing anthing specific, just assess each incident as it comes and end things before she frightens a pup - pups can cope with a growl, in fact they need to learn all about that, but being chased is a bit worse.

Em

Thanks for your reply, theemx.   I will keep an eye on the situation.  I don't think she is unnerved by pups or smaller dogs though, because it is her that wants and wants interaction.  My dog is a boisterous thing and loves playing.   In order to get another dog interacting with her she will after the initial sniff sometimes jump in their face or on their back.   But not to attack them, it is without growling or so.   Has she got bad manners?  I obeserved in the past that she just backed off if another dog indicated that they don't want to play, or she can be submissive.  I'm not sure.  Just will do thorough observation here.  I hope I didn't do wrong when she was a puppy in not giving her the opportunity to meet strange dogs freely (off lead), not because she wasn't friendly, but because I thought it was wrong to let her run away from me for many meters and maybe meet a nasty dog. 

Mmm

It could be that she hasnt really learned what is acceptable play - BUT if she can pick up hints off other dogs that its not appropriate to jump on them, and they are off lead too and youve asked if the dogs can play i cant see a huge problem there.

Id just keep an eye on the chasing thing and hopefully she will meet lots of dogs to play with and learn that the majority of adult dogs reserve very bouncy play for dogs they know well, if at all.

You cant have done too badly though, since she IS understanding other dogs and modifys her behaviour accordign to them, and protecting a pup from meeting wtih bad experiences is always a good thign to do.

Em

"the majority of adult dogs reserve very bouncy play for dogs they know well, if at all".
please god bring on the day that my dog will learn that!!:rolleyes:

Im still hoping mine will...... but most of the adult dogs i know do save it for dogs they have met several times....mine are just weird dogs though (i like em like that though, id not have learned what i have if they were easy and 'normal' )

Em

"Monitor the situation and keep an open mind (although obviously keep safe too) and see if you can pinpoint more clearly what it is abotu certain dogs that sets off thsi reaction from her"

I think she just developed to being a stroppy teenager over the last few days.  Today she met a cocker spaniel (I think it was a bitch as well), I gave my dog 3 meters, she went over, tail wagging, play bow to encourage the cocker which also wagged her tail.  Suddenly the cocker turns away, my dog jumps on her, the cocker falls over and squealed (it probably got a fright) and my dog started barking and growling which at that point I pulled her away from the cocker.  It all goes very fast and it is difficult what turned the frinedly greeting into a nasty sounding situation.  I'm a bit at a loss here.   And what shall I do?  Tell her off?   If it is a teenage thing, will she return to the nice dog who took a 'no' from other dogs in a nice way?

Id expect that your girl did not expect the other dog to fall over and squeal, she probably expected a good game and some fun.

In that situation with one of mind id get them back to me and do a sharpish 'off we go' which for my lot means 'no play now'.

These things do happen, and so long as nothing realy HORRID happens or somethign really REWARDING happens either, it shouldnt make too much odds.

If you were to punish her for this, which was probably an accident, and then surprise and shock, she may remember the punishment and link it to the other dog, not her behaviour (which wasnt 'bad' just a little silly).

If you reward her or allow her to continue having a go or barking and she happens to find that fun, she may try to repeat that again.

So id gloss over it, say sorry to the other owner and zoom off elsewhere and try again next time seh meets another dog.

Em

With my rather independent minded breed once on the move I find it easier to slwo them down using 'steady' in my case.  This way I can show that there is control so other dog and owner not frightened, and also get closer to the dogs before I recall, and they then know that they had better do so or I will reach them and put a toe up their bums (not realy).  I then find the command 'walk on' useful, depending on the situation so that they stop only for a brief helo and walk on by instead of recalling which may mean going past the dog again.