Luke, my 3 year old black castrated boy, was out walking on his lead with OH this evening. He got a bit "pully" and excitable at one point for no obvious reason. OH stood still and waited for him to come back. Suddenly he jumped up at OH and bit his upper arm twice through his jacket, breaking the skin and causing bruises. OH returned home very upset. We took him straight down to the vets to discuss the situation. She suggested muzzling in the short term, a behaviourist referral, or possible rehoming to the army or police.
My most serious concern is that we have 2 young grand-daughters, 2 & 4, who visit regularly, and I cannot put them at any risk.
Help!!

Please can someone talk to me? I'm desperate. :-(

How awful for you and your OH.  It sounds like your vet has made very sensible suggestions.  In your position, I would not let him near any children and would certainly have him muzzled at all times if he is out, at least until you have had specialist advice.  I hope you can find a behaviourist to help you.
With best wishes 

Hi
So sorry that this has happened. I agree that the vet has made some good suggestions. You were equally sensible in taking him straight away. Its not always easy to do this when you know that there wont be any magic answers so well done.

Understandably your first concern is your grandchildren. In addition there will be children in the street that he will meet as well as adults and other dogs. The only thing you can do for the moment is to ensure that he is not in a position to harm anyone if he should turn again - so muzzling is a good short term solution.You can also choose your walking times and destinations and go when/where there are less people around and therefore less potential triggers. Its a difficult balance but you dont want him to become so separated from people that he feels that they are the enemy either. With your grandchildren, can they visit less frequently and when they do can you pop your boy away when there are situations that may trigger another turn - just until you get some professional help? The reason that I suggest this is that you want your boy to know them but I know how stressful it can be for owners when they have to keep family members and pets segregated. I would say that so long as you are prepared to put the time and effort into your problem, you are a little way off rehoming yet.

Sorry I cant suggest what the problem might have been but its probably best not to speculate about these things too much anyway. Im sure you have your own thoughts on the subject.
Best of luck and try not to worry too much. You have done all the right things from what you have said and I am sure you will continue to do so.
Keep us up to date.
Caroline

im sorry youve had such a scare but im sure you will feel a bit better tomorrow when you have had a think and a sleep, do you think something spooked him(not saying that makes it ok obviously)anyway we are thinking of you, let us know how you feel tomorrow,   xxx

>OH stood still and waited for him to come back. Suddenly he jumped up at OH and bit his upper arm twice<

Are you sure he wasnt grabbing hold of OH and saying "c'mon, hurry up dad" ? Why would he have bit him for NO reason,there had to have been a reason?? I've seen dogs who's owners have stood around chatting with other owners for too long and they've grabbed their owners legs as iff to say "lets go"!! My own dogs jump up on me and carry on if i stand still for too long,it's their walk and they have no interest in standing in the same spot,they want charge ahead and investigate and have fun :)

What breed is he? Has he ever shown aggression of any sort before this? He may just need his energy and drive channelled into something more challenging than a walk on the lead?? Just because he acted like this toward OH,his leader,doesnt mean he will toward your grandchildren or any other member of the public.

Kudos to you for getting in a behaviourist so quickly,most owners wouldnt have even considered this after only one small incident,it would be very interesting to hear what he/she has to say especially with only having this one incident to work with.Perhaps she will see other small signs that you and OH have overlooked that will be able to explain things further aqnd put this into perspective.

Good luck and by the sounds of things i doubt re-homing will have to be considered.

Luke is a labrador who we kept when our bitch unexpectedly gave birth to six beautiful pups 2 months after we bought her...so we have invested a lot of time and effort in him over these last 3 years. She and apparently his dad are very laid back labs but he's always been very boisterous and hard work.
OH was standing still because Luke knows if he pulls he doesn't get to continue the walk. He had done the same walk with OH at 5.30 am and walked well. Normally I take him out in the morning, but yesterday I had my grand-daughter here so OH takes him out early. So why in the evening he suddenly behaved like this I do not know. I'm afraid biting which breaks the skin and causes bruising is completely unacceptable behaviour as far as we're concerned - it's not only our grand-children we have to consider, but other people's children we might encounter when out and about. I cannot envisage having to muzzle him for the rest of his life, either - what life is that for a dog? :-( :-( :-( 

"what life is that for a dog?"
My dog is muzzled when out and behaves just as she would without it. They do not realise they have it on after a while and can live a perfectly normal and happy life with the people they love.

Just wanted to say that I am so sorry to hear what happened. Also you say it came out of the blue - was there any look on his face and how did he behave afterwards. I agree that it is totally unacceptable behaviour but if it is the first time it has happened perhaps it was over excitement. But I would still see the necessity of a muzzle.

Hope everything works out
Anna

Sorry this has happened Carene - it is always such a shock when something like this happens out of the blue.

First of all, look at the circumstances surrounding this incident - it does rather sound to me as if Luke got too het up and excited, waiting to go for his walk - and his enthusiasm to "pull" your OH out to go on the walk got the better of him.    Did he actually go to attack - or was it a pull?   Whichever is, of course, totally unacceptable behaviour - especially as you have your young granddaughters' safety to consider.

You took him to the vets - (do hope, btw, that you took OH to get his arm looked at as well ;) ) - was it to check out that there was no medical reason for Luke to bite?    I must admit, I'm a bit concerned that your vet immediately suggested army for him - unless you were asking about rehoming prospects?

Personally, I would go down the behaviourist route  AND keep him muzzled or out of the reach of the grandchildren - dont forget, a lab can quite easily knock a child over even when its muzzled, if it gets excited.   It does sounds to me like a boisterous labrador who (like my own :rolleyes:) needs more training, to stop him getting "above himself".

From what you have told us, this does not appear to have been an aggression attack, and although it will take time, additional training/work should do the trick.   When our grandchildren come to us, which sadly isn't often enough for our liking - but when they live on the other side of the world can't be helped, we always make sure that our dogs are safely away in their kennels & run - that way, dogs and children are safe - and they enjoy their walks together.   Getting the dogs together & everyone going for a walk is a sharp memory in the lives of all 4 of them!

I do hope you can resolve the situation.   Of course the safety of your grandchildren is paramount.

Regards

Margot

This morning, first thing, Luke was coughing quite a bit. He hasn't done it since he had his breakfast, but we're wondering if he's coming down with kennel cough and that could account for yesterday's behaviour

Just another thought - what was the weather like in your area yesterday? It was very blustery and blowy here, and I've noticed that dogs (and young children!) often get very hyper and over-excited when it's windy. Just another thought. :)

Agreed, JG - the only time our Bramble had ever bitten us is when he got very, over-excited a couple of times when it was very windy and charged at us, jumping up and bit our arms (through our coats) - pure excitement in a young dog. If Tara got a bit over excited at training, she would jump up and bite my arm (not hard) if I took her toy away after rewarding her with it :) Just needed some extra control at the point when I knew that she was getting OTT to cure it :D :D Lots of difference between a young dog getting a bit OTT and being aggressive.

Daisy

From what you say it sounds as though Luke's normal routine had been disrupted that day. Instead of you taking him out at his regular morning time your OH took him out early. You had your granddaughter staying during the day so again his normal routine was changed. Had he been taken out for exercise between the very early walk and his evening walk? If not, I'd expect a healthy young dog like him to be bursting with pent-up energy and excitement - remember, his breed has been developed to spend all day out and about on the shooting field!

Personally I'd make sure he gets plenty of structured exercise, both physical and mental, to stop him getting bored then over-excited, and keep him confined when the grandchildren are visiting until he's steadier.

Anna - thank you that's very encouraging about the muzzle. However one thing I would be very sad about is that one of Luke's great joys in life is playing with his ball in the park - obviously not something that he could do whilst muzzled! He does of course play in the garden as well but our garden is rather small...:-(

From what you've said, I'd not be too worried - although I would be cautious. It sounds as if he was just very boisterous and was possibly hardly knowing what he was doing, or else was frustrated. There are training exercises which can help with frustration if this is a problem. Did the vet give him a thorough physical check up? as it can be that a change of behaviour without a clear reason may be medically related. Sometimes a visit to a canine chiropractor can reveal a physical problem.

I'd agree a behaviourist would be a good idea, if you are worried and esp. if anything similar happens again as an assessment and discussion with a reputable professional will put your mind at rest, and you may be given a behavioural /training programme to follow which would solve the problem :)

Very good point JG - its blustery here today, and I've got pawprints on my shoulder where Beau has been jumping up - my mum always used to say "the wind is up their tails"!

Willis has grabbed me by the arm before now and bruised it - sometimes he doesn't know his own strength. And he dragged Jon down a hill in excitement - by the ankle!! LOL :D

I meant to mention this last night but forgot.  Where was Luke's ball?  Was it in you OH's hand, pocket ??

My boy Lastar before he came from Spain"bit" someone who is a friend over here in the UK.  I was really worried about this as it was 3 weeks before Lastar was due to come to the UK so I ended up making an unexpected journey to Spain to ensure his temperament.  I found out later that what actually happened was that my friend and his breeder had had him retrieving, and boy he gets excited about this and that my friend put the retrieve article in his trouser pocket.  Lastar was totally hyped up went to get the article out of the pocket and bit the leg instead!

There was nothing wrong with his temperament just an over excited dog still wanting to play!  I now have to warn everyone that if they are going to play with him and they have the article in their hand that they have to throw it straight away and not mess around with it, that way no incidents occur and I now have him trained that once his toy is in the bag the playtime is over.

Get him a big football so that he can push it around with his nose. There is always going to be a solution to keep a dog happy :D And he will also adjust to what ever you do and would soon get excited about his foot ball.
Hope all goes well

Hi carene,

So you have had your lab for 3 years now, has there been any other indication of this behaviour happening at all before?

I just find the whole situation really strange, did your lab really go for your husband aggressively, was he in fear? From what you describe it does not sound like an attack, but some sort of misunderstanding, which has caused him to grasp your husband hard on the arm. I'm just thinking if it were my dog and after 3 years with no other problems I would proberbly shrug and think it a one off mistake of the dog.  I don't think I would be rushing him to the vets for a behaviourist with talks of re-homing it just makes me feel there is more to this, that you have both been worried by other behaviours and perhaps other nipping or biting incidents. It just does not make sense that a 3 year old lab of good character would suddenly go bad. If it were my lab I would not be worried at this time. I don't understand the panic.

If there should be any other character changes or have been in the past then by all means call in a behaviourist and muzzle him, you have brought this dog up from a pup you must know his character, I would treat him as usual, if all is well put it down to a one off, but would not be panicking just yet.

Luke has never ever bitten before, but my husband and I were really upset about it, so we wanted him checked out by the vet to exclude a physical cause. He has been a boisterous lad, and hard work, his temperament is quite different to his mum's and to his dad, who I haven't met but is described as a "big softie". I don't know whether this is fo any relevance at all, but he was in fact the smallest puppy in the litter, and Maggie-May was only 14 months herself - so I never noticed that she really "disciplined" them much. However we donated one of his brothers to "Hearing Dogs for the Deaf" and he's doing very well in his role- but obviously he had much more intensive early training, and was neutered early. - so who knows

No being the smallest pup would not make him more boisterous, having a very young mum does not make a difference at all however.......... a pup growing up with an older pup, (who just so happens to be his mum) makes things twice as hard, you see pups tend to bond with each other and stay in perpetual play mode, and need seperate training etc, Labs in my experience are the most boisterous and puppy like of all breeds and take a good 2-3 years to grow up so the pup that went on to work for 'Hearing dogs for the deaf' would not have been affected, whereas your pup had another larger pup to play and bond with, she would not discipline and teach as you put it as she was also a pup.  Your bitch will have grown up quicker as the bitch will take charge anyway, and grows up much sooner anyway.  But the dog will have taken more notice at play than your training with an ali which is why he has been harder for you. ;-)

my dog gets spooked in the wind aswell and all normal good behaviour goes out the window, since she was tiny i have made the effort tirelessly  to give off good vibes,lots of fun etc in the wind but its always the same, she twirls around looking petrified as if shes expecting something to get her from behind.

she is now 15 months old and shows no sign off conkering this fear. she is normally a well rounded and confident little miss,but you will still see me standing all alone on the open fields trying my damnest to look as if this is a really fun and exciting thing to do.  maybe i should keep an eye on whos coming up behind ME, one day it may very well be the men in white coats :rolleyes:

Just to tell you I grew up with labs,we always had one,the last one was the most beautiful dog who just about went everywhere with me,when she was out with me she did bite my arm in play all the time,my denim jacket had holes and somtimes my arm was bruised,at the time I was too young to know how to train her or anything else so I just let her do it,because at the time it was fun,(young and stupid) and this only ever happened when we were out playing when she got really over excited.she let go when I yelled,and she only ever did it to me.
All her life she never ever bit anyone or ever bit another dog,she never showed any agression to anything,even though she was messed around with by my brothers kids,so this really could be just play,please dont think that it will all be down hill.

Thanks, ashlee, that's really encouraging.:-) :-) :-)

We now have an appointment with the behaviourist for the 1st November - which seems like forever to me.
I hate walking him muzzled but I know it's for the general public's safety - it just seems such a long time before we get the professional advice we need. :-(