Hi,  was wondering if anyone could offer any advice.  I have two staffys Diesel a boy who's 2 1/2 and Mantanna a girl who's 1 1/2.  The first incident was about 13 months ago, when i went to pick them up from the kennels (this was his usual kennel) and the guy said he had tried to bite him.  He said that he snapped at him when he went to put him back in his pen, but didn't actually bite him.  It was a small kennels in a couples garden and they had recently had a new baby and it didn't seem that they were really spending the time they used to with the dogs so i wasn't sure if that was what had upset him.  I decided to no longer use that kennel after this.  Then a month or so later he was ill with an upset stomach so my partner took him to the vet and he went mad.  He was snapping at the vet when he tried to examine him and worked himself up into a real state.  The vet muzzled him but he was still going pretty crazy.  Lately he has been fighting with his sister over food (he finishes his then tries to eat hers), it never gets serious though, just a few seconds where they make that awful noise but nothing becomes of it.  If this happens we put them in seperate rooms and don't give them any attention.  When we took him to the vet last month for his annual booster he went mad again, the vet was really nice but as she went to listen to his heart he snapped at her.  My boyfriend tried to hold him but he was going mad and struggling every time the vet went to touch him.  The vet gave us a muzzle to put on him but he wouldn't even let me put it on and was snapping at me.  Eventually my boyfriend managed to hold him while he was given the booster but the vet wasn't able to examine him as he had really worked himself up again.  Then a week or so ago both dogs were eating their dinner in the garden and he finished his food then just turned round and went for her, my partner opened the door to go out so we could put them in seperate rooms and he growled at him and showed his teeth, this happened again a few days ago and my partner is devestated as he absoloutly adores him.  On both occasions we brought Mantanna into the house and left Diesel in the garden. 

I'm terrified that the situation is getting worse and will end up out of control with him biting someone and having to be put down.

Sorry forgot to add that when i took him to a different kennels i was told that he growled and bared his teeth at the staff whenever they came into the pen, i'm not sure if he means to be aggressive or if he's scared (he is quite a nervous dog) because he's cornered by a stranger.

Poor you, what a horrible situation. However I'm not sure why you're punishing Mantanna (by shutting her away) when Diesel tries to take her dinner? After all she didn't start the trouble! I suggest that you always feed them in separate rooms, so they both get to eat their food in peace, then these particular squabbles just won't happen.

I'm afraid I can't help with the aggression towards people though. That'd need a qualified person to observe Diesel and suggest ways of altering the way you interact with him. Apart from that it'd probably be sensible to muzzle him before you go into the vet's in future.

Good luck.

How hard this must be for you and your boyfriend. If I was in your situation I would see the vet to get a referral to a qualified behaviourist. I would also make sure they were a member of the APBC. You don't want any fly-by-night cowboys to come in and cause more damage. I hope you find a solution.

Hi - Poor you :(

I can appreciate how hard it must be as I have a 2 year old Staffie that has done some similar things recently - he too is a nervous dog and this IMO definately has a huge baring on them. Sounds like your boy is mostly reacting to strangers (other than the incidents with his sister) and I wonder if something happened to him at the kennels when this began? How well socialised is he with people other than yourselves? I know that they say that Staffies are naturally friendly but all dogs are different and most, if not all, will require good socialisation at a young age and people assume that because they are friendly to people that come into their home, they are ok with people. However, strangers outside of the house can be a very different kettle of fish.

Anyway, I wouldnt panic yet. I agree with other posters that you get him to a behaviourist asap and in the meantime ensure that you take every sensible precaution to ensure that your girl is as unaffected as possible and that he is not in a position where he is likely to snap at anyone, and if you find yourself in a position like this, make sure he cant get to anyone to do any harm. Im sure that with the right intervention, he will be fine in time. After all he is still young enough for you to significantly alter his behaviour.

Good luck, let us know how you get on
Caroline

Id say, tenatively, he has in his own mind probably had fairly good reason to react on each occasion...

At the kennels, as you point out, things had changed and it sounds like an unsettling place to be. If hes stressed and insecure then that might be why.

At the vets when ill and obviously in pain and discomfort, again in an unfamilar place - a place where a great many dogs show aggression and fear. (you wouldnt get NEAR my staff x in a vets, not unless you sedate him heavily and thats for routine things and hes NEVER been to the vets in pain ever).

Food aggression - it happens and when it does the dog is usually rewarded for it by getting the other dogs food.

At the vets again, well last time was a horrid experience, he was in pain and frightened  so he could well remember that.

More food aggression? well it worked last time, he got someone elses food, why not try that again.

In all honesty here i think are management and training issues. A behaviourist wouldnt go amiss, eyes on the situation in hand are always likely to be better than internet advice.

Until then - dont allow him teh opportunity to attack your bitch over food, thats really quite simple to manage, even here where none of my dogs are food aggressive, i seperate out the bitch from the boys as they know they can just march up and take hers and she wont do a thing about it.

You could work with your vet to reinforce that vets do not always equal horrid scary places. That depends on if your vet is willing though, but with use of a baskerville type muzzle and a lot of yummy treats it should be possible to make things a little easier.

Em

Don't shoot me down for saying this.. but ANY form of human aggression is completely unnacceptable...either needs to be immediately addressed or the dog should be pts..

this is just my opinion and is formed primarily because of the reactionary, scaremongering, hysteria that our 'press' have been promoting recently.....

>ANY form of human aggression is completely unnacceptable

I see. So a person can be giving a dog a thorough kicking and beating and it's totally unacceptable for the dog to defend itself? Or the owner's being attacked and the dog's not allowed to drive off the attacker?

see your point.. and agreed, perhaps in self defence yes it might be acceptable..
but unprovoked .. absolutely NOT acceptable...not with all these 'ban dangerous dog' idiots about recently.....

It can be very difficult for humans to understand what, to another species, constitutes provocation.

That's the problem with the papers and scaremongering Tessies Tracey, sometimes when certain breeds of dog are mentioned the immediate response is PTS, perhaps it may also end up this way with this particular dog too, if he should go on to become aggressive and attempt to bite when out on his walks or towards other people and dogs when not even in stressful situation, but every dog should have a chance to address their problems and try to sort them out with a behaviourist first.

Looking at the instances that this dog has become aggressive though I would think there is every chance to right the behaviours, many dogs have a fear of being touched by a vet it is not uncommon, vets and groomers carry muzzles all the time as all breeds can react when being touched by a stranger, food aggression is also a common and solveable problem, as for the kennels the solution to that is to muzzle thus avoiding the problem there, socialising a dog is so important to avoid these fear situations and this dog will need to have a lot of re-socialising in all aspects of his life and touch therapy sessions.

The fear of some breeds is the bite, Staffies of course have the lock jaw action which makes them much more dangerous if they should bite hence the fear of this breed, but if we were talking of say a Westie in this inst, the reaction would not be PTS, so all breeds need to be given the same rights and chances a lot of these behaviours can be helped.

I also agree that the bitch should not be being punished with the food aggression from the dog, the dog needs to be seperated and ignored to show the behaviour is not acceptable.

In the meantime I would muzzle before going into the vets, I would seperate the dog and bitch at feeding times, and inform any kennels that he has attempted to bite so that they can also muzzle him or take precautions, the dog must not get the chance to bite! And then find a really good behaviourist to try to sort out these problems. They are all solveable problems so don't get dishearted yet Kay.

absolutely agree Carrington.. there is often what is called a knee jerk reaction.. which is precisely what many owners of bull breeds AND other breeds too are trying to avoid...
but equally we need to be so, so careful that if there is any aggression in an animal, that animal isn't then used as a scapegoat...
my reaction would be the same regardlessof breed.. what I want to avoid is aggression toward the human....
I'm not quite sure where your staffie lock jaw information comes from.. powerful strong jaw yes, locking.. mmmmm
I do hope that the problems with Kay's dog can be rectified.. I can tell you as the very proud owner of two staffordshire bull terriers, they are a joy to own

I had always thought that staffies, pittbulls, and many mastiff/ bull dog types can get lockjaw, it only happens rarely but requires surgery to fix. And this has always been banded about with regards to these breeds. Perhaps lockjaw happened in a biting incident and the myth was born that it is a common occurance rather than rare.??? But as far as I know these breeds can get lockjaw.

'Lockjaw' is the common name for the illness tetanus.  As far as I know Staffies are at no greater risk of contracting it than any other breed.

:-D  I can see now that it is a complete myth, tetanus yes, is another name for Lockjaw, in my defense I had always thought that a Staffie may accidently cause itself to lock it's jaw by a hard bite needing surgery to re-open. It's obviously just a myth that I'm sure a lot of people have heard, but I did actually believe it.:rolleyes: never owning the breed myself. We learn something new every day.  Staffie's can not lock their jaws!!! Where on earth did that one come from???? And why did I believe it??  -  Don't answer that one!:-D

Comes from the fact that most (all?) animals have FAR more power in closing t heir jaws than opening them, and bull breeds have just the right type of jaw and HUGE muscles on their jaws that mean opening th em against the dogs will is very very difficult.

Its not at all impossible, and the jaw doesnt 'lock' in anyway.

I recently heard this about RATS of all creatures, not true about them either.

Regarding aggression - it needs to be understood. Aggressive behaviour has its root somewhere, every time. No dog is ever aggressive without a reason. Ever.

Aggressive behaviour in any animal is always an option, from elephants to tiny beetles, and everything on the way .

For some types of animal it comes more readily than others and for animals who dont have hands and voices to warn people off with, they are left with teeth.

Some dogs aggression is based in fear, some in territorial disputes, some because theyve learned its a tool that works to get them what they want, some because they are ill.

Some of these dogs will have had horrid experiences where they have been forced to use aggression - the dog on teh lead frightened or attacked by rough out of control off lead dogs springs to mind here. He cant use flight,freezing is going to do no good, fiddling about wont either so all hes left with is FIGHT. Next time it looks like things are getting scary in the same situation, he goes for FIGHT first, after a while he can become the kind of dog who lunges and snaps and snarls at teh very sight of another dog in the distance.

Some of these dogs have come from a long line of parents for whom aggression, willingness to fight before doing anything else, has been accidentally or purposefully bred in.

One of my dogs is like this, his parents and grandparents are all dogs who are very fearful, VERY quick to react and seem to go for aggression first. I am having to be UBER careful that he is NEVER pushed into a position where he thinks to fight - so far im winning.
If i put him into a strange kennels, or let someone he was fearful of back him into a corner, no matter how good their intentions, he COULD be pushed too far and be forced to use aggression. His brother already has, because HIS owners believed no dog shoud ever bark or growl at them for any reason, and they punished him for it and didnt give him space to become accustomed to things. As a result he lunges and bites first and asks questions later, i doubt it will be long before he bites someone in a public place. :(

I dont believe attacks are EVER unprovoked, its just a matter of understandign what the provocation WAS and is that a fair reaction or is it something lacking in the dogs training or socialisation, or does the dog have a health problem.

If i go now and push  a pencil into my dgos ear and he bites me, thats fair surely, no dog should have to put up with pain. So why the surprise when a dog is unhappy with somethign painful a vet may do.

If i try to sit on my sofa and my dog is on it and she bites me, thats not fair, but she still has a reason to do so, probably because shes learned that by doing so she gets left on the sofa, possibly the first time she was hurt by someone pulling her off.

Whilst the provocation in the first scenario is fair and in the second whilst also fair from the dogs point of view is caused by poor management and lack of training, both situations could be improve or even prevented by teaching good bite inhibition.

The problem there is that that involves ALLOWING puppies to bite in play and warning them when its too hard - gradually you teach them that humans should never be more than touched by dogs teeth. Dogs who HAVE learned this are dogs who will warn, air snap and if really pushed, gently bite - my scenario with the bitch on teh sofa , my bitch, is just liek this, whilst some idiot has taught her that biting makes people go away, fortunately that same person taught her never to bite humans hard.

Many people will punish dogs for play biting, and never give htem any feedback as to how hard is 'play' and how hard is 'game over'.

Many MORE will punish dogs for warning that they feel threatened by growling in the mistaken belief that the dog will know NOT to feel aggressive. That doesnt work and what you are left with is a dog who knows that growling adn warning will BE punished but still feels threatened and feels the need to use aggression. These are usually the dgos who bite 'unprovoked'.

....

And now tis time for Ems to go to bed!!! (up all night)

aha!  We certainly do all learn something new every day...
dogs are relatively resistant to tetanus, cats even more so...I think it's horses (as well as humans) that are the most susceptible?  got me thinking actually.. we vaccinate humans and horses against it, but not dogs.. hmmm

forgive me, I digress....

Thanks for all your advice it is really appreciated,  For starters i am going to buy a muzzle for him to avoid the possibility of him biting anyone, can ayone reccomend a good type of muzzle for a staffy? 

I'm really not sure what has made him like this but i think what people were saying makes a lot of sense, that in his own mind theres a reason for his reaction.  He's never gone up to anyone and gone for them it's always a reaction to people coming towards him.  He was extremely well socialised as a pup and came everywhere with us and would happily lay on his back in the middle of the pub begging for people to tickle his belly.  At some point things changed in his mind as when i think back i realised that now he doesn't really like to be stroked by anyone he doesn't know, at first he would just duck or run away, maybe it has escalated from this and he's realised as he's got bigger that if he's aggressive towards people they won't bother him and they back away.  (although this doesn't really explain why he's like this with my boyfriend).  I think what i'll do is make there's a clear consequence for any aggressive behaviour (not sure what this will be though ) and begin re-socialising him, with the muzzle on at first  and make sure he knows that no one will hurt him and build up his trust in people again.  Is this a good way to deal with it

He is an entire male,  could this be having an effect on the way his acting, being a teenager with too much testosterone???  If so would it be a good idea to have him snipped?   

If he's snapping/ biting because he's nervous, then castration could make him WORSE (testosterone gives a bit of confidence to a nervous dog). So be careful before deciding to give him the snip - as you can't stick them back on again!

Too much testosterone is unlikely to cause confidence problems - too little can do so though! Leave off getting him snipped until you have worked with him.

I dont like the sound of this : I think what i'll do is make there's a clear consequence for any aggressive behaviour (not sure what this will be though confused)

It does depend on how you mean that though. If your consequences are particularly unpleasant for him, you could make things MUCH worse.

If he has learned that aggressive behaviour makes people back away and leave him to do what he wants, then its natural for you to think 'nope, if you do that then ill do THIS' and escalate the aggression. The fact is though, that he has teeth and a seriously powerful bite and you have very thin skin.
Also, in his mind, he will then learn 'yes, i was right to be aggressive, i need to be aggressive, ill repeat this again'.

Instead what you need to do is the opposite. Dont challenge him. Ever.

Set up things in your home, so that he NEVER gets the chance to chuck his weight about. Feed him alone - if he has started to be funny about food with humans then play the four bowl trick with him. Four empty bowls in each corner of a room, you walk round and drop a bit of food into each one as he eats the contents of the previous one. Theres never enough food to guard, he cant guard four bowls, in any case except the one he has they are all empty, and food comes FROM you to him, no chance or hint that you might take food away again.

Dont feed him with the bitch present, hes learned he can take her food, so dont give him the opportunity, and there will be no fight to seperate.

As far as people go, start with him muzzled with a muzzle that allows him to eat. Use a long lead and a familiar place, and introduce new people in a very non confrontational way.

DONT allow ANYONE to approach him, tower over him, lean over him, or pat his head - thats all very challenging and scary for a dog.

Instead, ahve people ignore him, no eye contact even, dont speak to him at all and have them sit down a fair distance from him.

When they are ignoring him, they can occasionally chuck a small tasty treat over to him for him to eat. Do this casually, still no speaking or eye contact.

Like this, he can associate new people with pleasant things.

If he is never given cause to be frightened or to use aggression, then he wont do so, and you can reaffirm in him the trust and belief that people are nice and not scary.

If you do ever allow someone to force themselves upon him, back him into a corner etc, he may well bite them and once he has done that, he may do it again. Its YOUR responsiblity to make sure hes never put in that position.

Finally... a lot of people punish aggression, specifically they punish dogs warning. A growl or an air snap is the dogs way of saying 'back off, im not happy, you threaten me and if i feel i need to, i may take this further'.

Punish that to the point where the dog stops warning and its easy to think you have solved the problem, but you havent. All that has happened is that the dog has learned that WARNING results in punishment.
He still feels the need to warn, but wont as hes been taught not to. Instead if pushed far enough, he will just bite.

Em

Hi Em,

When i said a clear consequence i didn't mean anything nasty just maybe being seperated from Mantanna, my partner and myself in a set place, say in the kitchen.  What I was thinking was that i wanted him to know that aggressive behaviour is not acceptable and that if he is aggressive, he will then be put in the kitchen (if that makes sense). But since reading your post maybe it's not such a good idea as it may reinforce the behaviour.

If he is aggressive (although we'll try as hard as possible to avoid him being pushed into this) what would you reccomend we do so that he knows its wrong.

For example when we go out we leave the dogs in the garden to give them some freedom.  Yesterday my partner went to let them both into the garden but Diesel decided he didn't want to go and just sat there looking at my partner not moving.  My boyfriend walked over to lead him outside by his collar and he growled at him and tried to bite his hand. My boyfriend just told him No, naughty and put him into the garden but by doing this is he actually going to learn that what he's doing is wrong???

Thanks Again

Kay

I don't think it is a part of the training making him know what he is doing is wrong. Dogs will always see it in a different way. Ie being put in the garden is bad.
With my dog who has fear aggression towards dogs I go on the fact that if she does get funny with dogs then there is NO REWARD but if she is good she gets huge amounts of praise, treats and a game etc. This is gradually working as I don't ever want her to be more frightened of me than of the dog - ie stopping being agressive to dogs because she is scared of what i would do.

So in a way you just want to make him more comfortable with in himself and make him realise that the behaviour doesn't get a reward.
Hope that makes sense.

I didnt *think* you meant to do anything horrid, youd be surprised what some poeple will do though!

Dont do anything to show him anything is wrong - that isnt how dogs think.

They dont do right or wrong, they do 'rewarding' and 'not rewarding'.

If something is rewarding, they will repeat it,. if its consistently NOT rewarding they will not repeat it (although if its been rewarded in the past they will sometimes try harder at first).

IF he has to go somewhere and doesnt want to, and is likely to use aggression if you push him, you must think of a way round that BEFORE he uses agression.

So your going out into the garden situation - next time, DONT try to take him otu there if thats what he objects to. Get smart - he doesnt wanna, so YOU go out there and have a whale of a time with your other dog, if he wants to sit in the doorway bored and not being played with, tough on him!

If you must use force to take him somewhere, attach a line you can leave on his collar at all times, long enough so youc an pick it up and walk off with it without beign in biting range. Dont make a big deal if you are going to do this, just pick u the long line, have some treats ready and go 'off we go' in a really happy bright way. If you act as if its no problem, and you obviously h ave nice rewards, then the chances are he's going to come along with you.

I would look into any reasons he may have for NOT wanting to be shut into the garden though, could be he isnt happy with being left, could be someone is teasing them when you are out.

On a side note, personally, i think you are taking a very big risk leaving him unsupervised in the garden - you know he has shown willingness to use aggression, if someone enters your garden and he bites them, it is you and unfortunately ultimately HIM who will pay the price (and yes that is arse about, people shouldnt be able to wander into your property but if they do the law will see it as you being at fault).

There is also the risk of someone stealing him.

Em

Hi, I see what people mean go for positive reinforcement, praising the good behaviour and ignoring the bad (rather than punishing the bad).  I think i forget he's a dog sometimes coz he's my baby and i love him to bits, i must remember he's a dog and doesn't think in the same way as humans!!!

Our garden is very secure it's a terraced house with 6 foot fences all round so nobody could wonder in.  I think he's just a bit lazy bless him and would rather curl up in his bed than have to walk to his kennel.

On a positive note him and his sister have been getting along much better the last couple of days, i haven't fed them in the garden since the last incident and feed them at opposite ends of the room with me standing in the middle making sure they don't bother each other while they are eating.  If he does go to walk towards her i tell him no and he will stop and not approach her. 

Any reccomendations which sort of muzzle would be best suited to a Staff as they have quite short noses (one which he could still eat in treats in)  ???

I'll cook some chicken tonight (his favourite) to be used as rewards over the next couple of days for good behaviour.  I think he'd do practically anything for a piece of chicken so each time he goes out without a fuss and eats his dinner nicely i'll reward him.    

a baskerville muzzle would be best. sizes 12 and 13 i think are made for bull type dogs and if the don't fit. I think there are sizes 15 and 16 which look different for bull breeds. You can get them from Pets at home or your vet should order them in for you.
They are basket type muzzles that you can push treats in - just be carefull if he is in a aggitated state that he doesn't get your fingers. I use a cheese paste type thing (from sainsburies) it is the type you put on sandwiches that i poke the end through the muzzle hole and then squeeze a bit for mine to lick off.

Good luck with the training. Be patient and it will happen

Hope this helps

am absolutely agreeing with Em here,we rescued a youngish mastiff bitch about two years ago,roughly eighteen months old,very undernourished,and this is her fifth home,well she bit me,and it was totally my fault,I fed her seperate from my other dogs,but made the most stupid mistake,of after having put her bowl into her stand,and starting to walk away,I ran my hand down her back as walking along,luckily I was near the door,and managed to escape without too many stitches,in my nether regions,owwy,but hubby went off on a tangeant screaming dangerous,no more rescues etc,and  I put on my stubborn hat,and went about it totally differently,I would put her food in her stand,and walk straight out of room,never made eye contact,slowly she would allow me to be in same room as her whilst she ate,I never once challenged her,and boy did she give me the run around for a long time,chasing me out of rooms,growling,big girly to be doing this,but it was kind of make or break for her,and gradually she began to trust me,I can even put my hand in her bowl now,not that I do this,(tripe)she is the nicest dog,best temperament out of all of mine,over affectionate,but at no time did I rush her,she had had so much harsh treatment before we had her,that of course she was wary,and I had pushed my luck with her,this girl could be dead now,if she had been in wrong hands,but I never feed her with any of my others,she has not shown any aggression towards them,but once again it would be my own fault if I allowed a food fight to happen,
Wendy

"For example when we go out we leave the dogs in the garden to give them some freedom."

If you're both out when the dogs are left in the garden, how can you be sure that they aren't being aggravated/wound-up by someone??  Not necessarily your neighbours, just some idiot :rolleyes:  This happened a couple of years ago to my dog and the dog next door, a young lad was bringing his mother's Yorkie to the back lane/gates and hanging around for ages, banging the gates to make the dogs react, and the dogs were getting really wound up :rolleyes: this went on for at least a few months before we figured out what was going on, the dog next door was a bull mastiff/rottie cross and was getting really aggressive - not just with the kid (who he couldn't see) but with my family and other people who he'd known all his short life!  It was getting dangerous and one day I managed to catch the little s**t, and threatened to let the mastiff out so it could eat him and his mother's dog!!  He hasn't come back since, but the Mastiff's temperament has suffered since (numpty owner too ;) )  My own dog is fine because I've always worked hard at ensuring that both my dogs are happy with people and other dogs, but we've made sure she has no access to the gate as she is now obsessed with watching for anyone/thing outside it and barking at any imagined sound.