Can anyone tell me if they know of an undershot bite changing to an overshot? I was going to show my 6 month golden retriever but took him back to the breeder to be checked out & she said his bite is undershot and the breed standard requires overshot.  I've had goldens for 18 years but never shown so have never looked at the bite. The bite is only just undershot but the breeder says it's unlikely to change to overshot as he grows. Others have said that it can do, so before I write of my pups show career can anyone tell me of any cases they know where the bite HAS changed. Thanks.

Your breed's standard calls for a 'perfect, regular and complete scissor bite', not an overshot one.

I've looked on the KC & GR websites & they both say 'Jaws strong, with a perfect, regular and complete scissor bite, i.e. upper teeth closely overlapping lower teeth and set square to the jaws. I looked at my friends lab last night & his top teeth overlap the bottom, whereas my dogs bottom overlap the top. My breeder also judges goldens & she said this would automatically discount my dog.

From the sound of it your friend's lab has the correct scissor bite (if the back of the top teeth touch the front of the bottom teeth), and yours has a 'reverse scissor bite'; if the jaw is over- or under-shot there is a marked gap between the top and bottom teeth. It's unlikely to come right I'm afraid, and in a such a numerically popular breed as goldens there's little chance of your dog being very successful. Faulty mouths are a very difficult problem to breed out of a line. Don't write him off yet, though. His mouth might come right, but the chances aren't good. Sorry.

Yes it should be scissor bite and not overshot. At times a bite can change, for instance from level to scissor or under or from under to level as the animal grows, but usually any changes happen by the time the adult teeth come in -and from UNDER to scissor would be qite a big change, so I'd think it unlikley for it to happen at this age. Must admit I've never seen an undershot Golden. It probably changes the appearace of the chin as well. You need to bear in mind  that showing Goldens is such incredible competition, we are talking classes of 30 or more at championship shows, unless your dogs is really good without any faults you stand very little chance.

I've seen puppies with slightly overshot come back to a scissor bite as the bottom jaw is the last bone to stop growing but if your dog is undershot now chances are it could end up slightly worse as it gets older.

My dog's bite looked fine when I got him at 8 weeks, but by 6 months his bottom teeth were just out further than the top teeth, whereas he should have a scissor bite ideally - anyway, then someone said, give it til he's 10 months, and sure enough right on 10 months he suddenly had a scissor bite.  In the weeks before, I could actually see his teeth changing position, well due to the lower jaw growth that is.  So sometimes things do come right!

Thanks for all the replies. From what you're all saying my dog DOES have a scissor bite - the teeth meet well, it's just that the bottom teeth go over the top rather than the other way round. However with growth of only a couple of mm of the top jaw they could easily reverse and this is what I'm trying to find out whether it can happen.

No Helen, that is not a scissor bite.  The top front teeth MUST go over the bottom front teeth to be a correct scissor bite. However, don't lose hope yet that the top jaw may continue to grow after the bottom jaw has stopped. However, as Goldmali says, your boy will have to be a good specimen of the breed in conformation beyond having a scissor bite for you to be able to win in the showring.  The competition in all breeds is great but in Goldens there is just so many in the ring that the judge usually has a very good choice of dogs and therefore they do have to have good conformation.

Hi There,
           My australian shepherd bitch has an undershot bite........ It became apparent at 10 weeks and never changed.....
It didn't even become level, it just stayed the way it was. I didn't mind as I hadn't really got her to show and wasn't planning on breeding from her.
I did show her a little bit as a puppy, and she did reasonably well in Open Shows, but as soon as she got to a year old, she started to get knocked for her bite, so I took her out to do obedience with !
It is a shame that she is undershot, as she has 'real attitude' when at Companion Shows and usually wins because she looks at the judge with this ''pick me'' look on her face !!! :D

Enjoy your dog.........
Gabrielle x

Thanks Alison. One of the frustrating things was that my breeder, and also a friend of hers who breeds & shows, said that my dog had really good conformation and pigmentation - it was just the bite that was the problem. His father, paternal and maternal grandfathers are show champions & his pedigree is a sea of red, which is why I really want to be 100% sure of this bite not changing before I give up. I was going to enter a show in November, which is 2 months off yet. Do you think it's worth me entering or wait a bit to see what happens to the bite?

I have an American Cocker who's bite floated under and over until she turned two years old. It then settled to a close scissor, and has remained so ever since.

Dawn R.

Happy for you , Dawn, you were very lucky with your girl's bite! Now and then you hear about faulty bites correcting themselves, but they usually don't.
To the OP, didn't your breeder tell you about the bite being incorrect, when she sold you the pup? Or did you state you wanted a pup for company only, not showing? If I sell a pup with an incorrect bite, I put in writing it's not for showing/breeding, and cut down on the price. I also state I will pay any dental work needed later, i.e. shortening  teeth. This is something that might be necessary when the bite is overshot.
You obviously love your dog very much, and don't seem too concerned should he turn out not to be a show quality dog. I'd keep my eyes on his bite, but wouldn't count on it correcting itself. Sorry :-(
Karen

I have a Chi with an undershot jaw and as the dog's got older it's got more apparant - which would fall in line with what other people have said in the thread.

I was hoping to show too - but I'm quite inexperienced and didn't pick up on it when we viewed, although it wasn't as apparant at 7/8 weeks as it later became.