Hi,

I got shouted at today by a group of walkers near my house - my dog made a bee-line for them and danced around them barking and rushing in and out, and looking really fierce. She completely ignored my telling her to come, and danced around out of my reach when I tried to catch her.
The walkers kept shouting, "Why don't you get your dog under control?!" and waving their metal ski-poles at her trying to poke her. One of the men said to me,"My wife got bitten by a dog".
Nobody got hurt, but I was mortified. I've worked so hard on training my dog, and it all just goes out of the window on occasions like this. :(

Tell them "My dog was fine till someone threatened her with a walking stick."

Good one JG! Of course the recall still needs work, but honestly - fancy jumping around poking a dog with a ski pole - good way to get it totally hyped up!! :rolleyes:

Alfie sometimes does this, he will chase after people barking and barking then comes running back one time he ran up to a woman and her children barking and the woman turned to him and said "NO" and the look of shock on his face was a picture !! he stopped him though, its a shame more people arent "au fait" with dogs and training.

Dogs seem to have a sixth sense about just who to target in their "losing the plot" moments. They'll never choose another dog-loving person who knows that waving a metal pole around like an eejit is not going to help remind the dog about their recall training!

But jeangenie, that would be a lie. The dog provoked the stickwaving, not the other way round. Of course the OP did not intend this to happen. The sensible approach is to advise the OP to take action to prevent it happening again by keeping the dog under control. Advising the OP to  verbally abuse the poor people is pretty disgusting.  And clairey S...you say people should be obliged to know more about dogs...why should they????? ITs not the law, dont force your  likes and dislikes onto people.  Im gobsmacked at the arrogance of the responses.

quote [I got shouted at today by a group of walkers near my house - my dog made a bee-line for them and danced around them barking and rushing in and out, and looking really fierce]

Sorry but your dog should be under control and not allowed to rush up to people using aggresive behaviour.
They were clearly scared especially as one had been bitten by a dog.
You could be reported under the dangerous dogs act.
In future for the sake of others and your dog perhaps when people come along you should make sure he is firmly on the lead and under control and not let him off until you know this won't happen again and you have excellent recall.
If it had been me you had met I wouldn't have been too happy either and I love dogs.

collies WILL be collies,maybe skyblues collie was frightened by the people walking with sticks in the first place,causing the rushing up.LOTS of collies freak out abit at people carrying stuff.

this is a situation where a INSTANT DOWN would have been very beneifical,as even if your recall goes out of the window,"if" you can down them you can break the herding/chase

>LOTS of collies freak out abit at people carrying stuff

Belgians can too - the herding/guarding instinct comes out and they can easily over react.   One of mine went loopy when he saw a father pick his youngster up to carry him on his shoulders - my dog was on the lead but really distressed by this.

Another of mine behaved similarly to the OPs when a gent lifted his WHF terrier up high onto his shoulder - even well trained, amiable, seemingly mentally mature :rolleyes: dogs can have off days or something which makes them react out of character and, potentially, inappropriately. 

The "100% perfect in every scenario" dog does not exist  -  those appearing to be so have usually not yet met the circumstance which will provoke an unexpected response! 

>The "100% perfect in every scenario" dog does not exist  -  those appearing to be so have usually not yet met the circumstance which will provoke an unexpected response! 

I couldn't agree more. By all means aim for perfection, but don't expect to achieve it and if I was going to be disappointed when I didn't then maybe I'd reconsider dog ownership entirely! Even the best trained dog's an individual who has off-days, and these simply have to be accepted. Nothing goes right all the time, and we live with the knowledge and learn to deal with it. :D

Tara has a problem with walkers/joggers which we 'control' and don't have as much problem with now. However, we always accept that it is OUR fault, even when the joggers continue running despite a barking Aussie chasing them :(

Daisy

We have a running track and playing fields adjacent to our park (same grounds) yet one lady, who is absolutely petrified of dogs in any shape size or form, insists on running on the paths most used by dog walkers :rolleyes:   All we get is abuse, even if dogs are on lead, yet she does a circuit of the dog field too.  She never uses the purpose made running track ..... weirdo!

One day I asked, very politely, if she always came running at the same time of day - my intention being that if that was the case I'd avoid taking the dogs at the same time - this was met by foul mouthed venom and how she'd been running here for 2 years and didn't plan to change her schedule to suit me    I only barely managed to keep my temper when I told her I'd been running the dogs here for 16 years and was trying to co-operate with her!

Everyone tries to avoid her but yet she appears to go out of her way to follow in the direction of dog walkers.  Often there are a dozen or so dogs together when a few regulars meet up and yet she manages to intimidate owners of all age groups.  Frankly she's dang lucky none of the dogs are over protective as her behaviour is so aggressive it could well provoke an incident :(

I try to be very careful - never letting Tara off unless I have a clear view of the entrances to the fields (which are many). Things are OK if I can see the jogger coming - I have time to get Tara under control. She is very jumpy and so if one appears suddenly around a corner she gets very nervous. What really annoys me is that there is a hedge running between the field and the road and when you come out of the field it is impossible to see who is coming to your right until you have gone for several paces onto the pavement The number of joggers who insist in running (fast) along the pavement nearly colliding with us as we 'appear' from the field. I've nearly been knocked over a couple of times and fortunately my reactions have been quick enough to yank the dogs out of the way :( Several of our elderly neighbours walk dogs in the fields and it is only a matter of time before a jogger knocks them over :(

Daisy

Oh Skyblue, I commiserate. 

On these occasions there's nothing you can do but cringe, apologise, get the dog under control, have a good old rant in your head (What's the bl**dy point? All that effort and for what?? Should have had cats. etc, etc) and then press on with training. As you can guess I speak from experience...

At least no-one was hurt so chin up; at least you're trying.

I had a similar incident recently. I was walking my dogs around a local lake area, whilst one of my BCs was having her usual morning dip, a lady was walking passed but as we were tucked under a tree area, my 18 month old BC was spooked and started barking, slightly histericaly at her, the lady responded by waving her arms around and shouting " keep your dog under control etc" Poppy came straight back to me. I tried calmly to explain that she was not going to hurt her and that she was a rescue dog and on the nervous side and that she had just been surprised and it was just a nervous bark, the same as we would scream if someone jumped out on us unexpectantly. All i got was abuse! i should leave her at home, I again tried to reason that it would make her worse and what she needed was to be out and about meeting other dogs and people and different situations if she was to become less nervous, more abuse! If it was left to people like her i guess all rescue dogs would have a bullet!!  PS i did say sorry....

This is interesting.

Alot of people saying you shouldn't let your dog off the lead unless you can trust them etc.  I'm of the opinion that you can never trust a dog to always do what you want to do.  There will always be a situation that makes your dog ignore your commands - the trick is to try and recognise the likely scenarios and get your dog back on the lead until the moment has passed.

That being said you will have noticed from my earlier posts that my dogs are not very well behaved so maybe I am not the best person to listen to!

I wouldn't worry about it other than realising that this can happen and try and learn from it if it it is possible to work out what the lesson is :)

I commiserate entirely.  I have been making huge progress with my dog.  I thought agility was going to be the making of her.  However after 5 nights in kennels she decided that I was just not on the ball enough for her and put her tail up and went around all the other dogs inviting them to play - completely deaf to me.  The trainer took her round the course - faultlessly!!! This week I was getting ready to leave for agility and I dropped the lead in the front garden for a moment.  The dog next door barked at a passerby which was an invitation for mine to visit.  After a tussle on next doors front lawn upsetting my neighbour who kicked out at mine she headed straight towards a group of mums and young children.  Thankfully she went down on her tummy to be stroked and then headed off down the lane.  She was deaf to me in agility and constantly ran off to the other dogs.  My trainer calmed me down - I was so busy getting upset because of what other people must think of me - not having the dog under control- that the dog had stopped listening to me.  The minute I relaxed and called her she came and listened.

It's not often that I have a go but I can't really see how much help it is to heap shame on the head of the OP. Has it not occurred to those of you with perfect dogs that she knows the situation with the walkers and the pointy sticks wasn't ideal? Personally I think it's courageous of anyone to share these incidents on the board since, shockingly, they can happen to us all. Perfect dogs and owners excepted of course. ;)

id go NUTS with someone waved a stick at my dog!

I sympathise with you too - I worry so much that something might go wrong that I used a muzzle just in case. (rescue dog that is nervous about other dogs rushing him).  But with so many different people you are bound to get different views, some that you are not cautious enough, some that you are over cautious.  I think its good to hear all the views then when feeling a bit calmer look at all the recommendations again and see what you think will work for you,
good luck, Maxine.

Trouble is theres always got to be a first time, so you don't always know that its going to happen. I remember when my previously good wsd first spooked at a man whilst out walking at the age of about 1yr, she danced around this man barking and was completely ignoring me, so the guy kicked out at her several times. It took an awfully long time to get over that and we had to do a lot of extra socialisation with men before she got to the bomb proof stage shes at now. Unfortunately my golden is partially sighted and occaisionally barks at people of they suddenly appear, which is something else we are having to work on now. I sympathise greatly!

if my dogs bark at a strange person,very rarely id add. i dont tell them off.who knows what this person intends to do,/or what the dog picks up off of a person.one day i could be grateful if my dogs warn me of someone who means me harm.

Is it really dogs barking at them that bothers people though or the fear that coming next is a lovely big bite........

I'm not bothered if my dog barks at people I'm concerned that people maybe frightened of a bite -thats why I use a muzzle - a sign of reassurance to them. 

Bear in mind though that I've only had my dog for a couple of months so we are just learning/testing the recall and I have only let him off lead in a public place once (and very few people around) .  I suppose at some point - you get to a stage where you think nothing will happen and start to relax and then out of the blue something does.  You're not always going to be able to prevent - the secret I suppose as many people say is the speed of our reactions...

hhhhhmmmmm - the more I think about dog ownership the more complicated it becomes!  I thought kids were tricky.......

> I'm not bothered if my dog barks at people I'm concerned that people maybe frightened of a bite -thats why I use a muzzle

Don't forget that under the DDA, a dog has only to frighten a person for it to be an offense :( A muzzle might prevent biting, but the barking/combined with the muzzle will scare many people. I should know as my Aussie used to be a nightmare, chasing and barking at joggers/walkers. The best solution is to avoid the situation at all costs :) Tara has responded enormously to us using a 'watch' command and rewarding with a treat if she sits quietly until the person has passed :)

Daisy

> id go NUTS with someone waved a stick at my dog

Why ??? Our elderly neighbour carries a stick because she has had two hip replacements and if a dog jumps up at her, she would fall over :( Another neighbour carries a stick because she has two very small dogs and cannot risk a bigger dog biting them :(

If my dogs approach a person barking/boisterously, I would quite understand it if they waved a stick. I just try to ensure that my dogs don't do it.

Daisy

Thanks so much everybody for your replies, it's just sod's law that it was THOSE people that she barked at - I walk out of my house and into hundreds of acres of beautiful woodland and normally don't meet anyone at all, and if I do, it's usually other dogwalkers, and if I whistle and call, Foxy will race away from them.
I think it was a combination of the dog being startled as these people emerged suddenly; protecting me; feeling territorial as it was so close to home; and then the stick-poking seemed like an exciting game; not to mention that one of the women was frightened of dogs, so Foxy probably thought she was a suspicious character.
I KNOW it's not good for my dog to frighten people, I wouldn't like it either, that's why I was so upset.
But I can't keep a dog on-lead all the time for the rare occasions that this might happen - she easily runs five times further and faster than I do, and she just wouldn't get enough exercise.
Sod's law again that on my 2nd walk, I took Foxy on a long rope attached to a flexi-lead, so I could practise against this happening, and we didn't see a single soul! And nor was it what I call a proper walk, because she couldn't go faster than a sober trot, whereas her usual pace on walks is that of a whippet on speed though she's usually got one eye on me to see which direction we're going.
She loves our training and agility classes and is really keen to please, but out in the woods is a different matter.
Oh and thankyou Jeangenie for giving me a much needed laugh, v important to keep a sense of humour at times like this...

>Is it really dogs barking at them that bothers people though or the fear that coming next is a lovely big bite........

I think some people are just generally terrified of dogs and those that are don't get as far as analysing whether it's the bark or the bite that bothers them most. Unfortunately, their response when finding themselves uncomfortably up close to a dog often involves shouting, waving around of hands or sticks in hands and most of these activities tend to attract, rather than deter, a dog's attention. 

It's only fair to accept that not everyone loves dogs but I do find it a shame to see children being encouraged to behave similarly. A few weeks ago we were minding our own business mooching around on the Downs when a woman with a small child of about 3 or 4 approached us. As she got closer (still without Nips showing the slightest interest) she suddenly scooped the child up into her arms and told it, loudly, that  "The Nasty Dog Might Bite You!"  How that child is to grow up other than fearful of dogs I don't know. :rolleyes:

Hi Skyblue, I'm sorry to hear about what happened, I know I've had similar things happen in the past and it's always when you are least expecting it and feel mortified. I know now to be ultra careful and to train for all eventualities, but sometimes it's just not easy :)

If I could make a suggestion - decide on your emergency command; down, sit, (I use sit); recall, or leave it.
Train this every day, using reward methods, and make it fun and rewards high. If you aren't sure how to do this, (sorry I don't know what level you train at :) ) get help from www.apdt.co.uk as there may be a trainer near you who could help.

Train by gradually upping requirements so that in due course, she will do whatever you ask immediately, with heavy distractions (eg other dogs, people walking by etc) , almost as a default or reflex action!! It takes a lot of training, but is so worth it :)

It would'nt be a bad idea to set up similar situations using friends and people you know, to what happened - but not at the begining of her training, do it later so you can set up for success.

Also, don't forget that dogs really need ongoing socialisation - my breed is herding/guarding and I notice a slight change in her if i don't proactively socialise over a few months ... :)

Good luck
Lindsay
x

Thanks Lindsay and Michelle, I can get an almost instant down in a training situation, but it's so much harder in "real life" and once selective deafness has kicked in, she's so focused on what she's doing it's hard to break. As Michelle said, collies will be collies, but I know lots of people are frightened of dogs, and I don't want my dog to make them feel even worse!

keep on & on at the instant down,do it EVERYWHERE. throw a ball & do it when shes running!
it could save her life one day

Yes, you can use a method called "2  toys" as well to keep her rewarded for doing this - in time it will come, but you need to gradually get her to obey you with distractions, so eventually you can be confident she will respond as a reflex action when you need this most ... :)

For a collie a down is probably the best command, too :)

Lindsay
x

as sheep dogs will "down" when they are working sheep,it "should" be easy to teach  ;)

I used to think like that too, till I watched One Man and His Dog and saw umpteen champion working sheepdogs being repeatedly bellowed at to "Lie down! Lie down! LIE DOWN!!" as they continued moving! ;) :D :D