Feeling sad tonight as I've just dropped off my 8 month old springer bitch at the gundog trainers, and won't be seeing her for at least 6 months.

I felt real mean leaving her there, with all those other barking dogs, and a big scary trainer man. She normally leaps out the car, tail going ten to the dozen, but she reluctantly got out and walked off with 'big scary trainer', tail between her legs.

I've always trained my dogs myself, with varying levels of success, but I've just landed a big contract for the next 6 months meaning I wouldn't be able to devote sufficient time and attention to her, so decided to leave it to an expert. It was like leaving your kid at school for the first time, only I won't be seeing her for quite a while. Having said that, if she shows no promise during the first month, I'll be seeing her sooner :)

Oh Dave :( If it's any consillation (sp?) I'm sure you feel worse than she does :)

Congrats on the big contract :)

Fiona
x x x

Your so sad! - Sounds like your dog has more cause to feel sad!

Dave, have you had a tour of the premises or kennels? - I would guess you have not, they probably do not recommend it!

Have you watched any of their training? Again, I would guess this is discouraged, or they have shown you a demonstration with an 'experienced' dog, not one 'in training'!

Personally, I would not leave my dog for a day let alone six months at 'the mercy and in the complete control' of someone I do not really know. You are obviously paying a fee for this, and they want results - one way or the other!

Part of the enjoyment of training dogs in any of the sporting activities, is learning TOGETHER! Over a period of time, you learn about techniques, especially by joining a like minded Club. Share your frustrations with them too! But more importantly, by dedicating yourself to the sport, you develop a rapport with your dog, something that no 'Trainer' can do for you!

If you are keen to learn and train regularly, you will learn SO MUCH - about you, your dog, teamwork and the Sport. If and when you then add a second dog to your family, you will KNOW what mistakes to AVOID in training and what best to APPLY, simply because you will become EXPERIENCED in your chosen field.

Dave, I would feel sure that the welfare and well being of your dog is paramount to you, over and above anything else. Are you sacrificing this for a 'performing dog'?

If anyone should be sent off for training - it is you! You are the one who needs to learn, so that you can guide and teach your dog. If you do not have time to train or time to learn, perhaps you should consider a different hobby! (I don't mean that unkindly, it is simply a fact), but equally, if you have been training on your own, then join a Club and get some guidance. If you are already a member of a Gundog Group, perhaps it is not the right one for you, so have a look round.

One thing is for sure, there is no substitute for sound knowledge and regular practice. I run an Obedience Club, and you can tell the ones who just practice the one night they come to the Club!

You must be someone who cares a lot about their dog, or I am sure you would not be interested in this Site. Six months is a long time, especially being separated from a young dog that you want to forge a bond with. My advice is get back there, collect your dog, and resolve to make the time to LEARN TOGETHER - and ENJOY DOING SO!

Kind regards,
Denise.

That's a bit harsh, isn't it??

Fiona
x x x

Who for?

Fiona, I was bringing Dave's attention to the situation regarding training generally WITH his dog, and the possible situation that he may have left his dog in!

Sometimes we all do things that we think are fine and dandy, until someone sees it from a different prospective, and then it helps us to re-think the situation. If Dave has not considered the areas I have brought to his attention, he may well be grateful that I have - then again he may not, but at least he will hopefully have reflected on ALL aspects of the situation.

Denise.

Knowing what I know about Dave there's no way he would have left his girl in a situation he wasn't happy with and to insinuate he would do is insulting to say the least.

Dave has been enormously helpful to me with Holly, he has a great understanding of the spaniel brain (or lack off) and he always puts his dogs first.

Fiona

Fiona,

I don't know Dave or his dog (you obviously do), but there are unscruplous people out there who train dogs with complete control over them over a period of time, and the Owners sadly do not consider the 'other side of the coin'. Like I asked in my Post, has he had a tour of the Kennels, seen some of their training in action?

I could only respond to the Post I read, I hope I did so objectively, without causing ill feeling towards the 'Poster' (as that was not my intention - afterall he may well have considered all these aspects, and equally have carefully chosen the Trainer in question. That part was not mentioned.

The written word is never easy, but having a variety of thoughts and advice from a variety of people is what it is all about. Then the Poster can decide for themselves. I do try to be diplomatic and polite, but I will equally say or highlight a situation that I feel is relevant or needs to be addressed.

Regards,
Denise.

In my experience, people who take dogs in for full gundog training are usually true dog-people......unlike some of these "trainers" you hear about. There is a definite distinction between the two.

Hello Sam,

Where there are any people concerned with anything, there are unscruplous types too unfortunately.

Your experience has obviously been good. 'True dog-people' as you suggest cannot be afforded to one area alone. Anyone involved in dogs SHOULD be a 'true dog-person', but this is not always the case, and most of us know of them. Consider when we speak of seeking a 'reputuable breeder' - I am sure many of us know of so called 'reputable breeders' who's practices are not so much for the good of the dogs/puppies!

At Dog Shows during the Summer, with 'dog caring' people attending, how many times do you hear the P.A. system requesting the return of an Owner, because of a dog left in a Car in the heat?

It is therefore our responsibility with our dogs to do the best for them, and not 'accept without question', but to enquire and check.

Regards,
Denise.

Agree Sam. There is a gundog training establishment near us, and though I'd be like Dave and sorry to leave the dog, I'd have complete faith in the couple who own it and do the training.

Denise I feel bad about the dog too,you hear such bad things about trainers,poor dog will think she has been dumped,next door to me sent their dog training and came back a different dog :( so sad. (apparantly he was hit with a broom handle)
Id be back there this morning getting her back.
I do hope she is ok.
Sorry to be negative :(

Hello Mattie,

So sorry to hear your neighbour's dog had a very bad experience 'behind closed doors'. This is why it is so important to know who you are dealing with.

Even leaving a dog in Boarding Kennels, should be checked out. On an occasion when I needed to, I wrote a letter to 'Dog World' asking readers to write direct to me and recommend Kennels within my area or reasonable radius. I then visited seven, for different reasons, six were not suitable, but the seventh one......... ideal! I have since directed folk to them, and always hear wonderful feedback. So recommendation and checking when leaving our dogs in the care of someone else is so important.

Let us hope that all is well in this particular case. (From what Fiona says, because apparently she knows Dave, hopefully it will be). However, at least I was able to point out the possible downfalls too - as your neighbour sadly discovered.

All the best,
Denise.

Maybe Dave has a contract overseas or some such that prevents his training himself. :-(

You can't always organise your life as you'd like best; things would be so easy if you could.

But, if you are in this country still - it only takes 10 mins twice a day (and not always that much) to train your dog if you go about it in a contructive way. I don't suppose that a professional trainer in large kennels will devote much longer than that to each individual,; although as they progress, they will be given longer out in groups of two or three, but each individual is still probably given a short amount of training to itself.

That's not to say that your dog shouldn't be around you as much as possible to assimilate your own body language= afraid I'm not one of the school who says to shut your dog away and only bring it out for training. But then I've never yet won a FT, only tests.........

Jo and the Casblaidd Flatcoats

Well I bet thats really cheered Dave up!!!

I didn't realise you could send your dog away to be trained. Is this the 'norm' ? Can the training not wait until the owner has the required time or does gundog training have to be done and completed by a certain age? Also because the dog has been trained by someone else does the owner not then have to be told how the dog was trained, what commands to use etc. etc.

Possibly my lack of experience rearing it's head here but I can't imagine sending my dog away to be trained no matter how much time or experience I have or have not as the case may be. I'd want to do it myself with a bit of help of course :-)

Claire, the little I know about gundog training has been picked up from the trainers who run the place near me. They overcome the problem of the dog not responding to the owner in two ways. They say its best is if the owner lives within a reasonable distance and so can be involded in the training (and be trained themselves :-)) after the initial stages. But that isn't always possible as they they get dogs for training from the far end of the country. So they over-train all the dogs they take in, knowing that in most cases there will be a bit of 'slippage' when the dog goes back to its owner.

Well I guess I need to explain a little more. She's gone to a very well respected trainer, panel A field trial judge & KC registered breeder. He's well known to my club, and has trained many of the dogs there, as well as supplied many, both trained and as pups. I've even attended some of his previous training courses he has held at his kennels. I know none of this guarantees that he won't give her a beating, but I feel fairly confident that whilst he is probably firm, he won't be abusing her. I know there will be those that don't agree, and it's taken me a while to come to this decision, but having had her since 8 weeks old, I'm sure a bond has been formed, and the trainer assures me that the bond can be regained easily. After all, guide dogs for the blind etc don't have too many problems introducing completely new dogs to owners. She also has many FTCh's in her pedigree, so she should have good potential, and I have had to look at my own capabilities as a trainer, and decided that maybe others are better at it than me! A very lucrative contract is going to stop me spending the amount of time that I would be happy to spend with her, and at her age, she will benefit from training now, rather than in 6 months time. Being around plenty of other dogs will also help her social skills that are important in the shooting field.

Believe me, I feel bad about it, but as Fiona said (thanks Fiona :)), she's probably having more fun there, than I'm having here.

Dave,
When I read your first posting, I had complete faith that you had completely checked out the facility where you'd be leaving your "pup". It sounded as if you had soberly considered your actions. I have even more respect for you from your second posting since you graciously informed everyone regarding the specific situation without becoming defensive or annoyed at assumptions.

That said, I have to be honest and say that I don't know how you are doing this. :) I would go absolutely bonkers without my 'girls.' Oddly enough, I can live without my esteemed spouse easier than without my dogs. But it sounds as if you have sincere and valid reasons for doing this. I sympathize with your sadness and admire you for having the strength to be able to admit your emotions :)
good luck and I hope everything goes well for your gel.

BTW: During your "contract" will you be away or still participating with the board? It would be great if you could keep us updated on how she's doing.
sincerely,
toodles

Sara,
I think it's fairly common to send your dogs away to get trained over here. I could be completly wrong though! I have heard of it done as a very good way to train them. It is even considered "posh" I think. Sort of like sending your kids to boarding school. :)

When I was a kid, I desperately wanted to be "sent" away to school. I thought boarding school would be great, or at least better than my miserableness. But noooo, it was my brother that had that honor and he didn't want it!! (difficult situation and no other choice). He still blames my mum and he's in his mid 40s --the brat. :(

Dave (and the others) - what's the definition of a KC registered breeder?
Am I one?????

Jo and the Casblaidd Flatcoats

jo
I think KC registered breeder means a breeder with a breeders lisence. Doesn't it ? don't know where the KC bit come in though.
Dawn.

would it not be those breeders who have an affix maintained by the kc, -i breed rarely but my name has been given to people contacting the kc for a list of breeders-and no i dont have a breeders liscence, i dont need one, :)

Hello Dave,

Thank you for clarifying the situation - what a relief! I also appreciate that you did not take my responses as a personal affront to you. Given the same text, I would still respond the same. Apart from the individual who writes the Post, other people read and learn to, we all do. You thankfully, were cautious and careful about the decision you have made (which sadly was not made clear at the time)!! However, someone else who may be considering something similar, will at least be forwarned and have the knowledge now to consider all aspects of leaving their dog in the care of someone else.

Good luck to you both,
Denise.

Hi Denise, don't worry, I don't take offence easily, and you certainly raised legitimate concerns. As you say, all good discussion I think.

So it looks like I might be classed as posh now? Not bad for a south London boy.

Not sure about the 'KC registered breeder' bit, maybe they just use this to describe the fact that they're a breeder that registers his pups?

Dave,

;)

Denise.

Hi, I dont think there is such a thing as a KC registered breeder. There are breeders of KC registered dogs, and there breeders that are licenced with their local authority/county council so they camn register more than 4 litters a year - and as far as I am aware, thats it. I often see adverts for puppies with the word "KC registered breeder" included, but cant be bothered to ring to do anything about it- I would just get a load of abuse probably. I suppose I could contact the paper involved and tell them there is no such thing and to not accept that wording as it is misleading.

Hi Dave,

How's your girl getting on? Have you heard how she's progressing?

Fiona
x x x

Hi Fiona, I spoke to him at the beginning of the week, and he said she'd settled in well, and was kennelled with one of his own bitches of the same age. He hasn't done much with her, as he likes to take a bit of time bonding and getting them to trust him, but he reckoned she was as good as gold! She wasn't when she was here, so he must have done something already :)

I was to call after the first month, by which time he will have decided if she has potential, and if so, he will keep her for the full 6 months, or longer, as required. But I only lasted 3 weeks before I called, but he was non-commital, and I've got to call him on monday when he's had the full 4 weeks. I would love her to come back early, but it would cause me some problems, plus she needs the training. I had a job on in Dorset the other day, and I was tempted to park up along the road from the kennels and get out the binoculars to see if I could see her!

I cleaned all her kennel out the other day, cut back the plants around it, gazed at the poo bags hanging up, and it nearly brought a tear to my eyes. To think it may be Christmas before she comes back, makes me sad all over again. I was offered a cocker pup the other day, and to say I was tempted would be the understatement of the year. My girlfriend was egging me on big time, but I managed to resist. After all, I've never listened to her before, so why should I start now?

Thanks for your concern, it's much appreciated.