Hi All,

We have a 3 yr old castrated weimaraner, and a 12 yr old GSbitch, and a 20 month old toddler. In the house, all is well, generally, but The weimy (bailey) has issues about the postman or anyone coming to the door. He runs at the door, and eats a lot of the post/ papers etc, and barks like mad. If I'm in, I have to put them both behind a baby gate to answer the door, and only let them out when things are calmer after a few minutes( if the ring at the door was visitors).

We live in a semi detatched house, and our drive is adjoining next doors drive, which we have had railings put in to separate the two, and allow the dogs to do their business here. I clean the drive about 17 times a day , and am always out there, but if one of our neighbours comes out of their house, Bailey goes mad, barking, jumping up, and generally going ballistic. He's the same if anyone walks past the house at street level ( as the railings finish about 21 foot away from the street). Next door also have a GS bitch, but she never barks (ever) and she's an ex policedog. ( Next door is a policeman).

A couple of days ago a very unfortunate incident occurred. I was coming out of the house, loading the car up, and Bailey must've crept out from behind me, and ran out into our front garden. He saw our neighbour, and jumped over the low ( 6 bricks high) wall separating the two properties, and began barking, and being very aggressive toward him. Fortunately, he took control of his dog, (the ex policedog) who was by their front door, and ushered her in, because Bailey was paying no notice to my commands. Eventually he came to me, and I took him inside, and was obviously shocked at how he'd behaved. He didn't bite him, but he was very aggressive in his actions.

The next day, the neighbour called around and said that it wasn't acceptable behaviour, as there could have been a child there, and he wasn't very happy. Understandibly.

His recall is normally very good when he's out on walks, and even with other aggressive dogs, he comes straight away. He was castrated very young, about 8 months, at the vets insistance, and he's still very over-bearing. He also tries to jump up at me sometimes from behind, nipping me, then tries to hump my leg. Shouldn't he have stopped this by now?

He eats well, has plenty of exercise both mentally and physically, and is ok generally, its just this problem I'm not sure how to deal with.

My husband thinks he need to integrate him with the neighbours coming into our property feeding him treats etc, I'm not too sure, and wanted someone elses input. I'm also not sure the neighbour would be forthcoming and would want to do this.

Please, any advice would be much appreciated.

We live on the Wirral. Thanks, Jules

sounds like normal weim behaviour to me. he is protecting his property- right or wrongly. can he not go out the back to the loo and not be allowed in the front? if not i would raise the fence.

Sorry but I don't agree, this may be normal untrained Weim behaviour but a Weimeraner can be trained like any other dog, after all they are Gundogs and would not be allowed to behave like this in a working situation.   I also see German Shepherds who behave like this (and their owners think it's normal :rolleyes: ) yet in this case at least one of the German Shepherds is not exhibiting this behaviour (the other's behaviour isn't mentioned.)

It will take a lot of work for both of you as the behaviour is now learned but it is possible to retrain your dog to behave acceptably, but you may need help doing it.  I would certainly socialise the dog with the neighbours as a starter, he needs to know that some people are allowed to be near your property.

Thanks Dill,

I realise that he needs more training, but the class we used to go to when he was a puppy, the lady isn't doing them anymore, and I've no way of contacting her:rolleyes:

How can we find out where another good trainer is? Word of mouth differs wildly, some people thinking a trainer is 'marvellous', when others think that they're ' not to be touched with a barge pole' I also didn't mention, but while i was talking to the neighbour, I asked his advice, and asked what he thought we should do, and he just said, ask a trainer.

Any more suggestions?

By the way, our other german shepherd just stays out of anything Bailey gets up to!

Thanks,

Jules

There are trainers listed here, and there may be adverts on your vet's noticeboard. :)

You could also do a search on CD for recommended training books, understanding the principles of training and how a dog's mind works will help you enormously.  There has been much discussion on this area so plenty of food for thought :) :)  

Mine bark at strange cars or folk in the close as did my spaniel when he was here,they also start at strange noises and I now tell them it is next door,[they row alot and bang doors etc.] and they calm right down.

Most dogs want to alert you about anything they don't like,I'd be worried with a dog your size what harm he could do if he wanted to.

If he was mine I wouldn't be opening the front door at all with out both dogs safely confined in the house whilst I was loading or unloading the car. If they need to be outside in and unsecured area then they would be on a lead.

I would take your policeman neighbours comment as a warning after all he will know what steps to take if this continues.

I hope you get this sorted soon

Rhona

If you've got an ex police dog handler living next door he may be able to help with recommending a local trainer.  Take him a conciliatory botte of wine, tell him what steps you are taking meanwhile, and ask his advice.

I'd keep him out of the front garden for a start. 

Thanks for all the responses, I'll look up on the link you provided, thanks.

He's not a police dog handler next door, just has an ex policedog as a pet. But have taken on board about the wine, will do.

Oooh I didn't think they retired police dogs as pets, and that they all lived with their handler.   Perhaps he would know a contact anyhow if he has access to the dogs original owner.

Hi,
His GSbitch doesn't look that old, so don't know if she didn't make the grain or something? Don't really know how it works myself, but he's definately not a handler, coz we asked him.

Would you say that generally, Bailey is an obedient dog, and that he is normally well behaved, it's just in this particular situation?

Do you do any kind of training with him? Reason I ask is because any dog who is regularly trained will be more responsive to their owner. For example, if you'd spent a lot of time doing Good Citizens and teaching an Emergency stop, you could have set this up in many different situations and then over time could get Bailey to just Stop. Or Recall or whatever. The thing with training is, dogs need to learn to do the "command" in many different situations and the owner needs to really practice and to also find out what their dog likes best in all the world - if you can control that you are over half way to a well behaved dog :D

I agree in fact with your husband's comments re the food, it is close to a techniqe called "classical conditioning" in which something pleasant is paired with something the dog views as a threat - however to succeed it really needs for the dog to be started off within his comfort zone and that means the place where he doesn't react - a bit hard as I suspect he'd start as soon as he sees this neighbour.

Has your neighbour had any kind of altercation with the dog at all? Just wondered as even a well intentioned neighbour yelling at a dog could be harmful in terms of dog/neighbour relationships.

Try www.apbc.org.uk - David Appleby would be helpful, I believe he does clinics not too far away. (I'm just trying to think exactly where the Wirral is... I must brush up on my geography...:P ).

Lindsay
x

Thanks Lindsay,

The Wirral is 'over the water' from Liverpool (where the ferry crosses the mersey to)! and no, if I didn't live here, I wouldn't know where it was either!

As for your questions,
As far as I know there havent been any altercations that I'm not aware of regarding the dog and the neighbour, although he is particularly bothered by him. The training we do is when we're out at the field. We do sit and stay,then I return to him(I don't call him out of a stay)and reward. We do recall with the ball, again with a reward and we do 'go find' in the house where he has a little patch of material which we all hide, and he has to find it and give it back for a treat. He LOVES this one!

As you ask, yes, generally he is very good, apart from the odd hiccup regarding food which was left in too tempting a place

We do try a 'DOWN!'when he's away from me, at the field, but this is a bit hit and miss, sometimes he will, and we go overboard with the praise and rewards, and sometimes he just trots straight back to me, in which we just ignore him.Is that the same thing as an emergency stop? Are we doing it right?

Do you think it would be a good idea to invite the neighbour into our house with Bailey behind the baby gate, and get him to give him some treats when he's calmer? Maybe walk him through the house to the outer area, and let him see its ok for him to be there? He could always walk through the gate, return to his side of the property, and feed him treats through the railings? Any ideas?

Finally, I had a look through the above link, and there's an Erica Peachy in our area, anyone know of her? I did a search, and she's had a couple of books on training published..
Don't know of David Appleby, but will give him a call too, Thanks for all your input!

Jules x

Would it be possible to have a post box at the end of the drive for your mail. This sort of problem usually starts with the postman. If a dog is protective with a strong guarding instinct, he will bark when anything he perceives as a threat approaches his territory. He does this to make the threat go away. And of course, that is exactly what your postman does. He approaches your property, the dog barks, the postman, (having posted the letters), goes away.The dog thinks 'hey I'm good at this, I barked at that man and he went away, from now it will be my job to protect our territory' The alternative is to ask the postman to spend a few moments talking to the dog and making a fuss of him and not immediately leaving the property when your dog barks.Although it may be too late for this approach to work, I have an extremely understanding postman and we start this approach with my puppies when they are a few weeks old.

I too have a male Weimaraner who can bark for England and was aggressive, as regular Champdog readers will know. 

Casper is coming up for 3 years old and is not neutered.  We got him when he was almost 2 and he was very aggressive towards my OH, biting him on several occasions.  It is different as you have had your Weim from a pup, but we found patience and a calm, laid back attitude worked wonders with Casper.  Initially we were very stressed with him and I am sure he picked up on this.  We tried to stay calm when he snapped or growled or barked and would try to ignore this behaviour.  We would just act as if nothing was going on when he was having a 'turn' and when he had stopped we would feed him titbits.  We therefore ignored the bad behaviour and rewarded the good.  He is now a different dog altogether, although he can still have his moments!  With regard to the barking, I agree with previous posters that getting your postman, or just different people in general to come to the door or up the drive towards him.  Talk to the person, ignore the barking (hard, I know!) and when your dog is quiet, reward him and let the visitor speak to him and if the dog is willing, to pet him.  I can only talk from experience, but this worked well with Casper, although all dogs are of course different.

Good luck!

Louise

Thanks Louise,

Did you get Casper from the dogs in need section? I seem to remember reading about him a while ago?

We too 'inherited' Bailey from a couple who were friends -of -friends. They were VERY stupid in the fact that they bought him from an awful place called 'dogs 4 us' in manchester, and only bought him because he was the most expensive. They've never had a dog before, and didn't do any research into what Weimy's are like. As we already had Tara (our GSbitch) they asked us to have him, else they were taking him to the RSPCA.They're reasoning was 'Well you've already got a big dog, so you'll be better at looking after him' We have his papers, and contacted his breeder (who wasn't in the slightest bit interested in taking his welfare into account) So couldn't bear to let him go to ANOTHER new home. We'd had him only a few months when I found out I was pregnant with a much longed for child! Talk about timing!

Initially he was problematic, but, as you say, with hard work and understanding, he's a lovely dog now, just this one bit of a problem. He's great with our 20 month old toddler,but looking after him, and working part-time, so I suppose I just let Bailey's regular behaviour training slide a bit. As I say, we do enjoy playing and walking training, etc, but the whole obedience thing around the house just got a bit out of hand.

I took the bottle of wine around to our neighbour, who was lovely, and we had a good chat about our future plans..(Have contacted Erica Peachey, just waiting for a reply) and they said that they would be more than happy to participate in any socialising training that she felt was appropriate, so fingers crossed.

We've implemented a few suggestions from the previous posts, and he seems to be getting a (tiny wee) bit better, so hopefully we're on the right road, so Thanks to all for your brainstorming!

Its really great to have all your input!

Thanks again, JULES x

The post issue is easy to cure, put a box outside on your wall or alternatively put a cage on your letter box.  Apart from the annoyance and mess of chewed up post many companies send free samples of potentially lethal items through the post therefore I would never allow my dogs access to the post.

Postmen train dogs to bark, as they go away when the dog barks and the dog thinks that his barking has worked and barks even more next time; they do not know that that is what postmen do, ie arrive and leave! :D

Perhaps you can get your neighbour involved in your dog training and appear and not go away or react in anyway whilst dog is out of control and soon as it is quiet you can reinforce the quiet with treats.  Dogs learn by cause and effect and at the moment your dog thinks that it is pulling everyone's strings, you need to change the experience for him. 

Basically you are not in control of your dog, it is in control of you and you need to be fair, firm and consistent; the best way to achieve this is to get in touch with a reputable trainer who can train you to train your dog.  At the moment your dog's behaviour is unacceptable and he is not listening to you.

Weimaraners require a great deal of both mental and physical exercise and, if you do not create firm boundaries, they will just take the Michael.

Weims can be over territorial and over protective, you need to show your dog that it is YOU that makes the decisions and conducts the risk assessments, not him.  Then you will have a loyal and obedient companion.

Try the APDT site for trainers in your area.

Hi

We also have a nearly 3yr old castrated Weimeraner, he used to have this problem with the front door, we got over it by letting him come to the door with us when somebody knocked and then opened the door whilst holding his collar and asked the visitor to greet him.  At first he would jump up and down but now has calmed down quite a bit and will usually wait behind me without being held.  These dogs are very teritorial and will get quite upset if they think somebody is around their property, they don't seem to realise that their property doesn't actually include everything they can see from the garden gate.  If he starts barking at something outside whilst we are inside we have a look to see what he is barking at and then tell him 'it's OK' and then ignore him.  When he has calmed down we praise him.  He still barks but tends to quieten down quickly now.

When we are outside close to home I take bits of chicken with me (his favourite to die for food) and if there is anyone close I get his attention with a bit of chicken - this is ongoing at the moment but seems to be having quite a good effect.  The idea is that he associates seeing people as something good.

As far as the jumping and humping you - I think this is dominance behaviour. Around the house make him work for everything ie: sit or any other command before getting either attention or food, never let him walk through the door or run up the stairs before you, don't let him on the sofa or bed, never take a toy from him when he wants to play - everything has to be on your terms.  

The main problem we have with ours is his attention when he is excited - around the house he is almost perfect and will do anything you ask of him, on a walk over the fields he is off the lead and again is extremely well behaved and will always come back when called, but when there are a few people playing on the school field usually children running and screaming he turns into a banshee, he will bark at them, run after them, and has even knocked them over.  This wasn't aggression he didn't try and bite them or do anything else but obviously this behaviour is in no way acceptable and so we can't ever let him off the lead unless we are away from children (We have three kids youngest 8 so he is around the usual noise and bustle)  I thought that we could try an agility class as a way of channeling this excitement but have been told that he has to be obedient before he can start - He is, unless he is excited which he will be when he hears and sees all these people and dogs running around - we don't know how to get round this one.

Hope some of this helps, good luck, Shelly

As far as the jumping and humping you - I think this is dominance behaviour. Around the house make him work for everything ie: sit or any other command before getting either attention or food, never let him walk through the door or run up the stairs before you, don't let him on the sofa or bed, never take a toy from him when he wants to play - everything has to be on your terms. 

No this is outdated thinking. :) The dominance theory has been proved to be an old myth.

Absolutely right Marianne the D theory is based on studies of captive wild dogs & wolves which display atypical behaviour. In depth studies of really wild packs of wolves & wild dogs(ie not even in game reserves)revealed the ooposite of the captive animals.

Truly dominant dogs/wolves have to do little to prove dominance, a look or subtle body language change is often enough to put te lower ranked animals in there place. BTW they don't hump lower ranked animals eiher !

Dogs do not try to "dominate"humans there is no reason they should, they know humans are not dogs, cats aren't dogs etc & ergo are not an issue in pack hierarcy

I see this all the time in my own dogs, how the top bitch simply uses body language to keep her pack under control -very rarely anything else (if things get out of hand she may give a quick bark and snap, but that is when she is REALLY stretched to her limits), and nobody but NOBODY goes against her of the dogs, she rules. :)

Hi

'Domination' - Sorry, didn't mean to mislead anyone - we were told this by a veterinary nurse where we used to live a couple of years ago when we had this problem, the reason may not have been right but the advice on how to stop it worked.  What is the reason for this behaviour?

Hi Shellco

without meeting and carefully observing a dog in person and in situ, no-one can give a satisfactory explanation about certain behaviours as many enviromental issues combined with the form of or lack of training could be behind them.

FWIW, in your dog's instance it could be attention seeking behaviour which may well have been rewarded simply by having followed a course of "demoting" the allegedly "dominant" dog.  Attention seeking behaviour is rewarded by any response - even negative ones.  Making your own dog "work" for attention however has also engaged his mind in work - often there is a lack of mental stimulation behind a probelm.

In the OP's instance, IMO it sounds as though early castration of a slow maturing breed could be the main contributing factor in ongoing overtly juvenile behaviour - i.e. the dog simply has not "grown up" as the necessary hormones to do so have been removed.

However this is merely conjecture.   Training issues can of course be addressed by a reputable training class, on a 1-2-1 basis if necessary initially - often some experience backed with positive moral support helps frustrated owners put things into perspective and see a way forward. 

OTOH, serious problem behaviours i.e. those that are *totally unacceptable* and outwith the *realistic control of the owners* are best observed by a trained, reliable, recommended behaviourist.  That is, providing medical reasons for same have been ruled out.

regards, Teri

My boy tried to hump me tonight, he never usually does it but we were playing for ages and he just got really excited. I put it down to the fact that i am sexy lol. Good luck with training your weim, It is difficult if your dog displays behaviour problems you are not used to. My bitch has a i hate big dog attitude, we are working with a local training school to help her with this. Good luck again.