Hi

I was looking on the Kennel Club web site to see how many litters they recomend for a bitch to have and how close together they can be.

I know of a lab that is about to have yet another litter and according to the owner wont be the last and another that is on its second litter when the last one isnt even 6 months yet.

According to the KC you can register a litter if the bitch is over 12months, under 8 and not had anymore than I think it was 6 litters.

I personally feel this is to much for a bitch. I know you can breed as many litters as you want without the KC but most people that are responsible breeders want to register the litter. Is this not just encouraging people to over breed?

Wendy

I don't know anyone who has had 6 litters from a bitch in the UK, I'm sure it happens and even more sure that you won't know that they've had that many as some litters will be under another bitches name!

I have three litters from my bitches at the most.  I do have one who is extremely fit and I would of loved to use a different line with her but the breed club only allows 3 litters at the most and I will adhere to that. 

I would never, ever have six though, not even five!! 

My bitches never have pups until they are 2 years of age either, why the 12 month rule was put in I don't know because I feel the majority of breeds aren't mature at 2 never mind 1 year of age.

I have had a litter from a bitch who was 8 years and 1 week old, with agreement from the KC, this was her third and last litter and it was because a new male had been imported that I was sure would help our breed.  Without this litter many people including Terri and Jenny wouldn't have some of the dogs that they have now and I think that they are more than pleased with the results or I hope so :d 

Though in some numerically high breeds, why anyone would need to breed more than 3 times from a bitch is beyond me?

I hope to have 2 litters from my girl, purely because I would not be allowed another puppy yet, but by the time I would be able to have one, she would be too old for a first litter, but fine for a second one. I would never have 6 litters from a bitch, not for any reason!!

I agree with the above, however as for 'not for any reason' is the crux of the matter, some people are breeding for profit. Anyone that breeds from a bitch at their next season when the season is only six months or something similar is breeding purely for profit.

I don't think I would assume that without knowing their reasons.  Many bitches would take that in their stride, particularly if the first litter was small, I know mine would have even if I was still recovering :)
I don't think these limits encourage anything, people will be responsible breeders or not.  These are limits not obligations :) and each responsible breeder will know what their bitch is capable of, the implications of demand and will, anyhow, be further guided by more specific advise from their breed club.

My breeder's bitch is hopefully expecting her last litter. She works on the basis of three litters between the age of 2 and a half and 5 (it actually works out at no more than one litter per year) and she's now 5 so that'll be it. As it happens she's an extremely fit girl who could probably carry on for a while longer but she won't!

Agree with Isabel -there are after all breeds that do have litters as small as just 2 pups regluarly (i.e. it's the norm), and any breed can have a small litter. There's a world of difference between 6 litters of 6 or 6 litters of 1 or 2. I can't see much reason to have 6 litters from one bitch normally, but you never KNOW.  For instance as a comparison one of my cats has had her 4th litter this year and she will have one more next year. She actually had 3 this time, but otherwise has only ever had 1 or 2 per litter -and I still have no daughter from her to keep back as this litter was all boys. Hence I want a 5th litter to try for a female.

You should see some of the BRS - in my breed (Boxers) there are bitches that have had 5 litters :(
They've also produced large litters too so there's no reason to keep breeding them.

The KC used to have a rule that they wouldn't register more than 1 litter a year from a bitch. It's time they brought this rule back into operation. Thanks to people like this, overproduction of Labradors is a serious problem at the moment. There are committed hobby breeders such as myself who spend hours poring over pedigrees, matching up bloodlines, looking into the backgrounds of prospective stud dogs, putting untold hours into rearing sound, healthy, well bred puppies in the hope that we will breed something good enough to show that will hopefully contribute something to the breed we love, only to find it almost immpossible to find homes for the ones in the litter that we don't plan to keep. If this overproduction by money grabbing puppy farmers puts the true enthusiast off breeding puppies, then this is bound to eventually be detrimental to the breed as a whole.

The KC used to have a rule that they wouldn't register more than 1 litter a year from a bitch. It's time they brought this rule back into operation.

Again though there are grey areas. I have had 2 litters with 363 days between them -that's not a full 12 months, but had I had to wait another 6 months, it would have been the wrong time of year -and you don't always know if a litter will be born a day or two early. I think the KC did the right thing in having the 12 month rule for anybody registered as a breeder -that immediately meant those that breed a LOT would be ruled out, but the more responsible had some leeway.  Maybe it should be 10 or 11 months, or the KC should look at eah case individually -i.e. how many pups were reared the previous time? Then again that would be easy to get round too by not registering.....

Really the very best solution to all of this is if the KC would refuse to register any litters where the parents have not had the relevant health tests AND some other qualifications be it from shows, field trials or whatever. KC registration would then equal better quality.

I still personally stick by my original post as I do not believe a bitch should be bred from without a season in between.  Having a litter is a very hormonal time and I believe that a bitch should be allowed to have a season to get all the hormone back 'on track'.  Also, although some think that it is okay especially if it hasn't been a large litter, then it leaves it open to abuse for the bitches who have had large litters and still the breeders are breeding from them after only six months.  For this reason alone if nothing else then I truly believe that there should be some regulations in force. Only my opinion!

Think you misunderstood me Alison :) -NO WAY would I condone litters at consequetive seasons, that's no what I meant. :) I simply meant at times less than 12 months can be okay if the previous litter was very small, but I did talk about 10 to just under 12 months.

I was actually meaning people who breed at six monthly intervals, (and I do know of people that do breed like that) and i really can't approve of that.

Hi Alison

Just curious - what about a bitch that only comes into season once a year?  Would you still think it necessary to have a season between litters?

I really don't know what you mean by "hormones back on track" have you any information as to what hormone is not likely to be functioning by the time the bitch has another season. 
It would appear to me there is little evidence to support the fact that this is difficult for healthy, well cared for bitch as many breed club codes of ethics allow it, certainly in the two small breeds that I am a member of they do.
Unless things have changed again I believe registered breeders ie those that breed several litters a year and which group could contain more commercial breeders are not permitted to register from the same bitch within the year which I think is the sort of restriction you are looking for.  For a while all breeders were subject to this rule but the KC came to realise that the small hobby breeder is unlikely to choose to do so without considering the bitches condition and acknowledged it by permitting them to do so if they thought it appropriate. 

As I said, it is my opinion. Others can do what they like but it doesn't mean that I have to agree with them or anyone else.  I would term myself a hobby breeder and still wouldn't breed from my bitches that often. As for hormones, one of the most hormonal times is when they are in season and in whelp. how can hormones settle down when they are feeding for several weeks and then potentially in season 4 months later. I personally believe that this is not enough time for the hormones to settle and I don't know of any evidence that tells me that the hormones have settled down in that short period of time, just like there doesn't seem to be any evidence that this isn't the case. I will still do only what I believe in and will be quite happy with my practice.

Thats fine, the ruling allows people to do this if they think it appropriate, not oblige them to :) Others may choose differently and that is up to them also.

I had a bitch that came into season every 10 months. If I had bred from her (I didn't, by the way :) ) and she had only had 1 or 2 pups I would have liked the opportunity to breed from her at the next season. This is a breed that can have up to 15 pups at a time Otherwise I would have had to wait even longer before breeding again, maybe making her too old to breed from. As I didn't breed from her it didn't really happen, but why should I have that choice taken away from me? Normally I would like at least 2 seasons between litters as I like them to recover fully before taking another litter, but I would only take a maximum of 3 litters from any one bitch. I've actually only taken 1 litter from every bitch bar 1, where I did have a 2nd litter.

I have always found my bitches went longer before coming in season after a litter, usually at least four weeks longer.

I very nearly did breed from my champion bitch on a subsequent season (would have been 10 months since last litter) AS THE MALE WAS OLDER AND HAD ONLY EVER SIRED ONE SMALL LITTER.  In the event she missed, as had her daughter to him on her previous season.

This allowed me to try and get a little used and almost gone line, and in the event convinced me not to bother trying him again as both girls had missed to him.

The older champion girl will hopefully have her third and last litter to a long awaited imported dog (who came to UK last December, but because of failure of his chip had to go back to Norway and finally arrived again in July), but she is late in season, and will be 7 in November, so really for me this is her last chance, as her seasons seem to be having longer intervals as she has got older.

just going back to this old post as I've been spending the afternoon researching pedigrees and was a bit surprised to find a bitch who has had 8 litters! This was a wonderful bitch, a great favourite of mine, who had litters in two different countries and has put a huge amount into the breed. Thinking of the litters I can see the point in each one, and admire the dogs in each litter. In this country she was put to top sires of different lines which makes sense to see what they produce. However, it still seems like such a lot for the one bitch - I can't help thinking that possibly some the breedings could have waited till the next generation. I wondered what peoples opinions of this are? Is it justifiable to have so many litters from a top winning and top producing bitch who was bringing new bloodlines into the country? As I like dogs from all of them I couldn't choose a litter not to be born if you know what I mean

I think that the integrity of the breeder is paramount. 

Some bitches pop out pups like shelling peas, love to rear a litter and bounce back themselves in no time at all.  If a quality bitch is like this, then she is a wonderful asset to her owner and the breed.  Other bitches, and I've had one, after mating (that bit was OK! ;) ) absolutely hated the pregnancy, whelping, refused to rear or have anything to do with the pups that she produced.  I wouldn't have mated her a second time, whatever the quality she had produced.