I feed my dogs jwb and when I recently went into pah to pick up supplies they tell me they are stocking a new food called Wainwrights. It is supposed to be comparable to jwb but cheaper. They gave me a free sample and some literature. I have tried to compare the ingredients and they do seem the same but the proportions differ. Has anyone heard of or used this food. tbh as jwb seems to suit my dogs I am unlikely to change but I am curious nonetheless.
jane

Don't know about this one, but I feed JWB.  Once at the pet food warehouse that I go to, they were promoting Skinners Duck & Rice as being totally comparable to JWB.  My friend who is on a limited finances decided to try it as it was a lot cheaper.  Everything was fine for the first couple of months, then she noticed that the dogs skin was very dandruffy.  Couldn't understand it, had skin scapres taken etc.  Nothing wrong, but still full of dandruff.  Went back on a bag of JWB and skins came back beautifully.  This may not be the case with this food, but I am now very sceptical about claims that the foods are the same.  Hope this helps.

Ours have moved onto Skinners Duck and Rice without any problems - they've been on it for about 3 months now. 

We did try the JWB Duck and Rice but it sent the youngsters slightly loopy so we will be sticking with the Skinners.

Not decrying Skinners, it just didn't suit my friends' dogs and it obviously wasn't comparable to JWB as was suggested.  I believe that it is horses for courses, you have to try foods out to see if they suit, however, why do manufacturers (or their sellers) make statements that it is a comparable food, when obviously it isn't, I mean obviously JWB doesn't suit your dogs and therefore it would be wrong for JWB to say that it is comparable to Skinners Duck & Rice.

I've heard of the food.  It's similar to JWB but I can't see how they can do it cheeper (also remember current prices are introductory!) :D

The problem with it is it is made for Pets at Home and therefore only availible at PAH. 

The ingreedients are similar and it is marketed to compete with JWB.

If anyone has any questions on the food then let me know and I'll see if the brifing pack about it is still around in our store :)

Hi Jane

>I have tried to compare the ingredients and they do seem the same but the proportions differ.

I think your comment highlighted above proves that they are not the same :)  It may well still suit your dog and a multitude of other dogs but comparing the ingredients separately from the % amount of each will not necessarily equate to even a similar diet.

Some time ago one manufacturer brought out a medium size breed version of the same food I'd been using for a long time - ingredients were exactly the same as in their other kibble size but the way that the (same) oils had been added into the recipe differed.  The result was that my dogs not only didn't enjoy the food, but also had loose motions, yet % wise across the board the ingredients were identical.

regards, Teri

I guess the moral of the story is that the only "same thing" is the same thing. :-)

I for one have found that "cheaper, but the same" is only wishful thinking. 

I used to feed jwb but have changed to csj and find it excellent and cheaper despite having to have it delivered by courier. They will send samples if you ask and they do have a website.

There is absolutely NO comparison between JWB and csj :rolleyes: JWB for one has decent ingredients....
As far as cheaper but the same,i agree with stacey,this is but wishful thinking and IMO not possible.

I cant find ANY info on Wainwrights,google through up nothing. Jane to get any truly helpful replies you will need to post the ingredients and GA to wainwrights :)

I agree Ktee, from a quality of ingredients POV there is no comparison but I have personally known some dogs that were fading away on many highly regarded diet regimes find that the CSJ "Champ" - by far the cheapest one incidentally! - helped these dogs turn the corner from skinny, scurvy coats, mucous covered faeces etc and basically poor do-ers into well covered, well coated, voracious eaters with firm (to the point of small white hard) poos.

Strange, but true ;)

Ktee I didn't say that it was the same just that I had changed. I have found that all three of my border collies are doing really well on this. And I haven't chosen the cheapest. I did find that Burns gave them terrible tums so it is not always the dearest that is best. :-)

Ok here's the ingredients:

Salmon Protein (min 23%), Potato (min 17.5%), Atlantic Fish Meal, Potato Protein, Sorghum, Whole Grain Barley, Sunflower Oil, Whole Linseed, Sugar Beet Pulp, Diacalcium Phosphate, Alfalfa, Natural Seaweed, Sodium Chloride, Potassium Chloride, Methionine, Marigold Extract, Yucca Extract, L-Carnitine, Rosemary Extract.

Salmon protein??? Havnt come accross any meat 'protein' before,it's usually salmon meal or plain salmon.Anyone know what this means? It doesnt seem to be as grain heavy as JWB and is about 1.30 pound cheaper than jwb for a small bag.
I still dont understand why manufacture's insist on such small amounts of meat Double the meat content and this would be one of the best foods available in the UK.

The terms salmon protein and potato protein must mean these foods were processed in some way before they were added to the food.  I cannot find a source which decribes what this could mean, my guess would be that for the salmon that it's rendered to extract ingredients sold or used seperately, such as salmon oil.  Not sure what happens to the spuds. :-)

Salmon protein- is hydrolysate salmon It's what we would term animal derivatives in that it's made from the heads and fames of salmon also damaged and bruised salmon in other words a waste product of human food production- this food also uses added Methionine, in good quality food this does not have to be added as it occurs in high quantities in meat, so if the meat is high no need for this to be added synthetically. Sorghum  (a grain)is not grown in this country so one would suspect that this food is manufactured abroad. Also contains salt. IMHO this food on the ingredients alone looks like a cheep import and I would avoid it like the plague .JO   

>this food also uses added Methionine<

Jo you're not getting methionine confused with menadione? Methionine is an essential amino acid :)

If indeed the 'protein' word is a pretty word for derivatives than  this food is not much better than most of the others :( Hoooooweveeeer,i would rather see a pet owner feed a food like wainwrights rather than pedigree,bakers,beta et al which have by-products,derivatives,colours, grains,grain,grains and around 2-4% meat Compared to foods such as these this one is a huge step up.

I forgot to add that wainwrights is - 30% protein and 15% fat.

Here are the ingredients and GA for JWB fish-

Ingredients: Rice, Ocean White Fish Meal, Barley, Whole Linseed, Olive Oil, Vegetable Gravy, Peas, Fish Oil, Alfalfa, Natural Seaweed, Chicory Pulp, Sodium Chloride, Calcium Carbonate, D,L-methionine, Lysine Hydrochloride, Threonine, Zinc Methionate.

>Contains: Min. 23% Fish, Min 28% Rice, Min 15% Barley<

>Typical Analysis: Protein 21%, Oil 10%, Fibre 4%, Ash 8%.<

The fat and protein in wainwrights is at a much more appropriate level for maintenance,but the question is how and where is the protein being provided. You would have to find out the digestability of the foods to know exactly the amounts and how much of the protein and fat the dog can actually absorb/digest. A food can have 40% protein with ingredients of a leather belt and a pair of leather shoes,but none of it would be available to the dog.

its a cheap imported food , using cheap ingredeants.I know that Methionine is an essential amino acid but if meat is used as one of the main ingredeants there is no need to add this .Why make a food lacking in natural amino acid and then add a synthetic version ?its cheaper than JWB because it uses
cheaper ingredeants you pay for what you get -Jo

Protein is there to distinguish it from fat, carbohydrates etc etc etc it is not another term for "derivatives".  The PFMA is very strict on this.

Starch is often extracted from potatoes to be used in the processed food industry as thickeners etc thereby leaving the small amount of protein to be used in animal feeds.

Sorghum, Barley, Linseed are used bulk up the food and provided incomplete proteins (hence why amino acids such as L Carnitine, Methionine are generally added to most commercial dog foods); meat/fish may be the largest SINGLE ingredient in the mix but not make up more than 25% of the total contents.

It is not necessarily the grain amount but the type of grains used which can effect nutrition.

Top of the list would be oats, followed by rice for digestibility and protein content.

Sugar Beet Pulp is a filler or source of FOS depending upon your point of view; Linseed can also be a problem with some dogs promoting itchiness or being unable to be metabolised efficiently.  Most dog foods contain salt (chlorides) for taste as well as preserving qualities.

The reason for the small amount of meat is customer demand, the higher concentration of meat the higher the cost! ;)

>The reason for the small amount of meat is customer demand, the higher concentration of meat the higher the cost!<

Amen to that! :rolleyes: :(

This is the reason given by the manufacture's of the good OS foods,people wont pay the the price! I for one would be willing to pay just about anything for a good high meat,high protein, high fat,less grain range of pet foods.