Hi Everyone,

I fear we've reached the 'terrible teens' with our 9 month olf golden, whos taken to quite ignoring anything/instruction from us when we're over the park. Around the house/garden her recall is good, but over the park she's becoming a bit deaf! We take toys, very high value treats (sausages/smelly mackrel etc) and when we recall when there aren't any other dogs around she comes back every time. However, as soon as a dog/something or someone more interesting comes into view, treat, recall and toys all go out the proverbial window. She does hear me when I call as she looks at me and then quite clearly chooses to ignore me and runs off. So until she's reliable I've taken to not let her off lead when it's busy, which is a shame because it's always busy over there, and she's a bit too playful and bouncy with other dogs - I worry she's very boisterous for little dogs.

So, after a suggestion on here I've bought a Mikki harness and long line, and I just wanted to get some tips as to how to train the recall using a long line. I can't find any info on the web, so any help will be greatly appreciated,

Cheers

Karen

Karen - the long line is used not really to "train" the recall, but to prevent the wrong thing from happening when you call (dog bogging off).  So you can ensure that the word is always associated with the action you want.

There are some other exericises which are more helpful to do than standard recall practise. 

Most of them need another person to help you:

1.  Get another person to stand somewhere, away from you.  Throw a ball towards them, near enough that they can get the ball if they need to, so it falls at their feet.  Let your dog begin to chase the ball.  When your dog is halfway there, recall her - call only once.  (At first it will be easier to recall her when she has just left you.  Then when she is halfway to the ball.  And to make it really hard, when she is nearly at the ball.)

If she comes to you, lots of tasty treats and be very excited with her and maybe throw another ball in a different direction and let her chase that one as a reward.

If she ignores you and keeps running to the ball, the other person near the ball should pick it up.  So she can't get rewarded for ignoring you, because they have removed the ball.

2.  Another exercise which is a bit like this is:  Get someone to play tuggy with her and get her really excited in this tuggy game.  You should be standing away from her.  Recall her away from this game.  When you recall the person playing tuggy should stop playing, and let their arms go dead and not pull against her anymore, and if possible remove the toy and hold it behind their back.  She should then come to you (because the person is boring now).  Repeat this lots.

You can do another variation of this exercise with food - get someone to hold some distracting food in their fist but do NOT let the dog get this food, just snuffle at your hand.  Then you recall her away from that, and you feed her a really tasty treat for coming away.

Or you can have a person going bananas, running around, waving their hands and making high excited squeaky noises, and she's chasing them and jumping at them and having fun.  Then you recall.  As soon as you recall, the other person stops making noises, stands still, and faces away from her.  She should come to you.

So - really all these exercises are teaching her to come away from distractions or things she wants to chase, and you are ensuring success because you are in control of the distraction and you can make it stop when you recall.

Wow - you type fast! Thanks for the quick reply.

We'll try some of these tonight when my husband gets home - the park will be nice and quiet around 8-ish - althought I think I'll be the one running around playing like a loon!

I'm not clear what I'm trying to achieve with the long line training to be honest, apart from her not physically being able to run off as far as she'd like and what I should be doing whilst she's on it....

Thanks

Actually, Bagpipe had asked for some help via a PM a month or so ago on the same issue, so I just copied it from my sent messages folder!

With the long line, you just let it trail on the floor.  If another dog arrives, you pick up the end of it (but keep it slack), then call her.  If she looks at you and then tries to head off to the other dog, you just reel her in - if she comes even part of the way in herself, reward her with a tasty recall treat or a game.  That way she is not self-rewarding herself for ignoring you.  If you have to basically drag her all the way in (!) then don't reward!

onetwo three has given some good advice there. I had trouble last year (when pup was about a similar age, too ;) ) Long lead came out. It doesn't take them long to realise that they don't actually have 'free running' anymore. I always take treats out with me now, something I never had to do with any of my other dogs. As 123 has said you only treat when the dog does what you want it to. If you have to drag it back then make it sit and stay before being allowed to go off gain. Don't let her go too far before recalling her. If she comes back straight away then make a fuss before treating her. Seska has been a lot better in the last few months. Since her 2nd season, now that I think about it. I still use the long lead on occasion, just to remind her. :)

I tried a long line with my Jozi (Elkhound) trouble was she was never close enough for me to catch the end :D

30 feet is really close for an Elkhound to stay with you on walks. 

My good girls would trot 50 feet or so in front or behind you, to get them consistently closer would require them to be on the lead, unless I recalled them every minute.

I found I had to actually keep hold of the line so found using a flexi easier.

How often does she get to play with other dogs? The more they associate with their own species, the sooner they lose their novelty value and your own interest levels rise!

Well this is where is gets a bit complicated (And long- sorry).

Our friends have a choc lab (13 months old) who when they were first introduced was a bit of a nutter (9 months old) - as such I was feircly protective over Roxy who was little in comparison but we'd let them have supervised play - in retrospect intially I gave into pressure from friends to let them play ( I was told I was being uptight/to chill out etc etc) as much as they liked however after an arguement and more research I put my foot down and said they were too boisterous and that I would stop play. I bitterly regret letting them play that much now however, since recently thier play has gotten really rough (as roxy has gotten bigger) , lots of what I think it body slamming and they get very vocal and whilst I know dogs get a bit carried away but Roxy managed to get a cut above her eye. Anyway, when we go round to thier house now we keep them on a lead, but when we take them to the park and let them off in the fully enclosed area they do this play/flighting thing and it quickly seems to escalate. So in short, she gets to play with Henry in short bursts a couple of times a week. Not really sure what to do with this situation as I don't know if keeping her on the lead is making this worse or what, or if I've caused the rough play by letting them play so much when she was younger  :(

Our other friends have a couple of dogs and whilst she plays with Boson it's not anything like when she plays with Henry. The other dog is a right grump and Roxy doesn't try to engage her in play. There's a few dogs over the park that we see regularly and who's owners are happy to let Roxy approach and have a play. The difficult thing is is that she's really bouncy and just doesn't come back after being allowed to play so it's hard to know when we should call her back etc.

Also we've set up some walks with my friend who has a collie x so that's more doggie interaction. Should I do more?

Oh I am glad that you posted this as our 10 month Golden is just starting to ignore recall when another dog is around. He is really good at trainng club and at home - not so good when he sees another dog unless it is one that he meets regularly and then he will return when called. If walking ahead of me he used to be really good at sitting, and waiting for me to reach his side , when I saw another dog in the distance. Now he will sit but only waits a second before he goes off to visit.

Using a long line is not so easy as he likes to go off into the brambles and bracken at the side of the path through the woods and I am worried he will get caught. I don't mind not letting him off lead but he really needs his exercise and is still on the "5 minutes for every month" regime so I can't walk him longer than he already gets. I don't want to use the flexi lead as he has just got over (mainly) pulling when he walks and it was a long hard slog so not keen on putting him on a lead where he has to pull for the lead to extend.

I would say that you should first develop a bond with her, to the point where she thinks you are the centre of her life and all good things come from you.

There is a reason why traditional gundog trainers keep their dogs kennelled and only take them out a few times a day, when they then train them and work on developing a bond.  Their dogs don't get free running exercise.  They grow up associating the times they are allowed out of the kennel (bliss) with their handler and with training, and the handler in turn becomes the centre of their world.  This is why I think traditional gundog trainers can achieve so much without treats - however it works on the basis of depriving the dog of companionship and fun at all times except when training and isn't a good idea for lots of reasons, I think.

But you can learn a lot from that - develop a bond with your dog, make yourself the centre of attention and associate yourself with fun over and above other dogs.  Since it is impossible for most people to be as interesting and fun as another dog, I do think that while you are establishing this bond, it makes sense to prevent your dog from playing with others.  Saying hello and sniffing - fine - but overexhuberant playing is just teaching the dog that other dogs are fun, and you don't have a hope in hell of being that interesting in dog terms, or of competing with how interesting another dog is.  Yes, socialisation with other dogs is important, but you have to get the balance right between a dog learning to be too dog-focussed and not person-focussed enough, and providing socialisation. 

Yes, she has learnt how to play roughly with this particular dog and you're doing the right thing to interrupt early and allow short bursts of play only - if that.