At what age can you start experimenting with different types of food?
I am think of going straight to adult food when her food runs out - please don't get mad at me - I have read quite a lot of threads about food this afternoon - my head is spinning.

How often can I change food (same brand JWB)?
How often can I change food (different brand)?

How long does it roughly take to know if your puppy is happy with the food?

In a day or two Amber will be fully on JWB puppy performance. She eats it all within 2 minutes and she still looks cute and her body looks healthy to me. But one concern is that she seem very itchy lately and is loosing more hair than usual (she is brushed everyday).

My advice would be if she is happily eating the food and seems ok on it then why change it? I would give the complete change over at least 2 weeks maybe even four to see if everything is ok. The hairloss could be because of the time of year and losing her puppy coat, I know our next door neighbours golden has a never ending moult and can see hair floating around the garden regularly!! but if you are at all worried about her hairloss /itching then take her to the vets!

What did your breeder recommend? and why change it so soon?

Mine stay on what the breeder reccomends for a long while unless its obvious that it doesn't suit them, then i introduce it over 2weeks.

I wouldn't jump to a conclusion just because she is itchy and change the food.  JWB doesn't have any wheat in it, and wheat is the main source of skin allergies in dog foods.  Has she been treated preventatively for fleas? 

Why are you thinking of going straight to adult food?  Especially with a puppy which sounds very light for the breed?  The people who manufacture dog foods spend a long time in experimenting with various ingredients, working out the right amount of protein, fat, ash etc for each age range.  They are carefully manufactured with a view to providing the right diet for each life stage of your dog.  Puppies need puppy food because they have smaller stomachs than adult dogs and cannot eat as much, quantity-wise.  So what they do eat has to be more nutritionally dense than adult dog food.  Unless you are a very experienced owner, I would strongly recommend you feed what the manufacturer recommends in terms of the most appropriate food for your dog.

You can change food between different JWB brands as often as you want.  In fact, why not feed different flavours at different meals?  That's what I do.  Same goes for changing brands - as long as you stick to the better brands (Arden Grange, Burns, JWB, Nature Diet etc etc), then I think you can change brands when you feel like it.  I don't stick to one brand either.

I normally change my Goldens over onto adult food at about 5-6 months, but it is dependent on how heavily boned they are and if I am trying to slow their growth down a bit.  Your puppy is a different ball game entirely and as she hasn't had the best start in the world I personally would leave her on the puppy food a bit longer, but it is up to you.
Also. I feed JW and I am very happy with my dogs conditions including my old 11 3/4 who is still doing quite well for her age.

I would also agree that JW is a very good food and if it was my pup I'd keep her on the puppy until 12 months old.

Whilst obviously not suggesting you should chop and change without good reason, one of my girls was also very itchy on JWB and has never been itchy on any other food.  It did me well for years with previous dogs, but I don't use it now for that reason. I have also heard of others having this problem.

M.

Right now, I'd work on the "if it 'aint broke, don't fix it" principle. If Amber is happily eating what she's being fed then leave her to enjoy it. You can switch between different JWB flavours without problems and the easiest way to tell whether a dog likes a certain food is whether or not they eat it and how it returns at the other end of the digestive system. What you don't need to do is get stressed out about feeding so it's best to try and be more "intuitive" about the process. We've all been there and been concerned to feed our dogs the best possible food but you don't need to worry about every minute detail to achieve this. I don't say this in a judgemental way, I hasten to add, but more to ensure that you can get on and just enjoy the sheer pleasure of having Amber.

PS. If she's itchy then keep an eye on this and if the problem continues consult your vet.

Thank you all! Some of you might remember that Amber came from a "shop" and started off on Hills Science Plan. She has flea treatments every month (3rd of June and July - something called Beaphar - please make this be a good product!!!)

I know Amber is light in weight but I once read:
"I think you should forget about how many grams of whatever food you're feeding... The info on the pack is just guidelines, not something to adhere to, very closely. It is far better just to go by what your pup looks like... and watch her weight - visibly - not by scale-watching".

Well visibly Amber looks gorgeous and healthy. No obvious digestive problems as the poos are looking great too!! Indeed I will take her to the vet next week if she is still itchy. If the vet sees no connection with JWB I certainly will keep her on it for at least 3 weeks but I am most definitely going for the "large breed" puppy food straight away (I can't wait to try different flavours - got to be boring eating the same thing everyday!)

However, I will continue to investigate the "adult food" subject between 6-12 months because so many of you have made me aware that she did not have the best start in life therefore I am concerned about the calcium/phos ratio in "puppy" food that could potentially aggravate her bone problems (if any). Surely, I cannot ignore that possibility? I do listen to the forum's advice/opinion when appropriate. I do not listen to my mother's who tells me "When you were a toddler your dog was raised on scrap food, there was no such thing as "puppy" food (large breed or not), daily ration etc... (also a good point wouldn't you say?)

Although I appreciate your opinion 123, with due respect, the people who manufacture the dog food or you, do not know or see our Amber everyday, I do (no matter how inexperience I am). I also was the one that made the decision of buying JWB thanks to everyone's good advice (even though I accidentally ended up on a pretty good debate about PAH and many other good brands). I will continue to monitor Amber and see how she gets on (the itchiness - mainly around the neck/ears - is my primary concern).

CHILL OUT NEWS:
Our puppy has been with us for 26 days now. All 3 of us are really enjoying her and she has settled down nicely. It is so obvious that she loves us as much as we love her. We are far too tired to have time to stress. And if we are a little, just looking at that cute face takes it all away... Today she had her first POO on her walk; there are no words to describe the joy on my daughter's face! Amber just wants to be loved, pampered, cuddled and played with!!! What a tough life... Can't wait for our hols!! 6 weeks together (mega puppy times scheduled - off to the West Country our favourite part of England).

Sorry it's so long. But I do like to explain how I come to make my decisions and how important your advice/opinions are to us!

Has Amber recently started wearing a collar or a change of collar? this could be her irritation around the neck area perhaps

No, she's had the same one from the day we got her.

I've never heard of 'Beaphar' - it's not one of the treatments recommended at the vet surgery where I work. Where do you get it from?

Beaphar own Sherley's

Oh dear. If it's from a pet shop it's not very effective. :( I only recently learned that vets aren't allowed to sell pet-shop medications because there are no guarantees they work.

Yes, I got it from the pet shop and no the vet had nothing to do with it. If it is the wrong flea treatment than hopefully the vet will let me know about it otherwise I will have to search the forum for the best effective fleat treatment.

In a nutshell, don't ever buy any kind of treatment (fleas, worms, any kind of medication) from anywhere else but the vet or one of the specialist online pet pharmacies such as http://www.vet-medic.com The over the counter stuff (which is all petshops are allowed to sell) is very rarely effective and can cause problems -would not touch anything made by Sherleys with a barge pole after a cat of mine had a stroke after taking their worming pills, and I've since met several other people the same thing happened to. Also with the good stuff from the vet there is no need to treat for fleas monhtly usually -it's far more effective. Also if the dog don't actually catch fleas off other dogs (depends a lot on lifestyle of course) no need to treat at all in my personal opinion -it's been years since any of my lot had flea treatment OR fleas. I treat if and when they get fleas. :)

Best stuff for fleas in my opinon is Frontline -the drops you put on the neck as opposed to the spray. This used to be prescription only but you can now buy them from for instance Vet-medic. (=Cheaper than the vet.)

Poor LINE your head must be spinning :D The brain can only take in so much info at a time,and you're getting bucket loads,which is a good thing,you've had lots of good advice :)

The symptoms you describe regards the itchies could also be detox.For example if a dog has been on a low quality food, and is then switched to a better food,the 'toxins' from the old food will need to be detoxed,and the most common way for this to happen is through the skin.Some dogs get full blown allergy symptoms like yucky ears,itching,moulting etc etc. This is why it is so important to stay on a new food for at least 6-8 weeks,too many people panic when they see the above symptoms straight away after changing foods and blame it on the new food and then change back to the old food :( These symptoms usually subside within a couple of weeks,however if they are still apparent after 6 or so weeks then the likely hood is the new food doesnt agree.

As for changing around foods,i rotate after each bag is finished.JWB is in my rotation,sometimes i change to a different flavour,other times i change brands,i usually have 2 different flavours/brands on the go so my dogs get a different one each day.I have 2 reasons for doing so,one is for the sake of variety and change,i dont believe my dogs would enjoy eating the same food every single day,and the other reason is because i dont believe ONE food can provide everything a dog needs! I also add fresh food to their meals every night,such as yogurt,cottage cheese,chicken,lamb,beef etc

I agree with the others about not using flea/worm control from the pet shop,they are rarely effective and some are down right dangerous :( Your vet's office is your best port of call on flea and worm control :)

Goldmali is right about the flea/tick stuff - only buy this from your vet, or from an online vet-supply place. 

The main one in the UK is Frontline or Frontline +.  There is also Advantix, which is v good too. 

For worms, Drontal + or Milbemax are the best ones - Panacur is ok for pups but doesn't treat against one type of tapeworm. 

If you're going back to your vet anyway for some other reason (2nd jab, for eg?), then talk to him about it all.  If you're not, then you can order this online from the link Goldmali posted.  It's usually cheaper online too.

There's Stronghold as well - that's a monthly spot-on that deals with roundworms as well as fleas. :)

Also deals with one of the manges, sarcoptic I beleive.  there is a new one (can't remeber the name) that deals with the lot including Demodex.

:rolleyes: Hello, sorry I don't like the way the screen was shifting to the right! So hopefully this will bring it back to the left!

>I do not listen to my mother's who tells me "When you were a toddler your dog was raised on scrap food, there was no such thing as "puppy" food (large breed or not)

Actually, your mother's advice isn't that daft although it's at one end of the spectrum of opinion about this always knotty issue!

For sure, I can't be the only person who remembers many years of owning happy healthy dogs whose daily rations consisted of "bog standard" meat and biscuits topped up with appropriate table scraps!

Some of our dogs certainly didn't have what today we would call the best start in life - at least two of ours were farmyard pups from the sort of accidental matings that make it impossible to make an accurate guess at precisely what breeds they were crossed with but they all thrived.

Nowadays we know a deal more about canine dietary issues but sometimes I'm left wondering quite how much difference this makes (other than to the manufacturers' profits) in reality.

Hello everyone!

I haven't purchased anything from pet shops apart from toys and JWB :-)
The Sherley's products were hand outs/left overs from the shop we got Amber from (so all that is going in the bin right now ) but the good news is that I already started my shopping list last week and guess what is on it? Drontal and Frontline (as you can see I am doing my homework and learning fast :-) I will give her a treatment of each asap (I will speak to the vet first). I will look into the Stronghold for future reference (sounds good 2 in 1).

She started having gradual mixture of JWB in her Hills Science Plan around the 8/7, do you think I should just give her JWB and quit the Hills in case she is going through the "detox" process?

So if I understand this correctly if I stick with JWB "large breed" puppy food and using different flavours I do not have to worry about the weaning process? I can just give her one flavour at different meals throughout the day? So the weaning process is only applied when you change from one brand to another?

Can fresh food be added to any flavoured JWB? Isn't Amber to young for this? What would she gain if I do this (i.e. ups/downs) bearing in mind I am concern about calcium/phos? Is this similar to the BARF technique? Sorry I have read about this mixing fresh food in a thread but can't remember a thing (and it was only last week!!)

PS: Amber has had all her jabs apart from the rabbies one (not planning on taking her abroad yet).

my dog (now aged 11 months) has always had fresh cooked meat (mainly organic chicken) added to his evening meal of JWB. I know it's not strictly necessary but it suits me and it suits him! There are no downsides that I've witnessed and he has never suffered from an upset stomach or anything I could describe as a chemical imbalance as a result of doing this.

Of "weaning", if you stick to the same basic product but just try different flavours you can go from one to the other without intermediate servings of both. I've tended to change flavours when I get to the end of the bag so there's never been anything to wean him with anyway.

Of "detox", I'll put my tin hat on ready but there's no reason to assume your dog will go through anything of the sort.

I have never fed my Goldens large breed and have never had any bone problems, in fact I have had very good success with hip scores and elbows scores including dogs that I have bred but have been reared by their new owners on JW regular as I have asked them to do.

Hi Line -

"So if I understand this correctly if I stick with JWB "large breed" puppy food and using different flavours I do not have to worry about the weaning process? I can just give her one flavour at different meals throughout the day? So the weaning process is only applied when you change from one brand to another?"

Do JWB make the "large breed" puppy food in all flavours?  Or only in the Turkey and Rice/most popular flavour?  It might be worth checking before you fall in love with the large breed food idea.

I wouldn't worry about the weaning process at all.  To be honest, I know you're supposed to wean pups over slowly from one food to another, but I never have, and haven't had any probs.  Other pups might have more sensitive tums and might need to be weaned slowly, but if her poos have been fine throughout this process then it's likely that Amber has a strong stomach and you don't need to worry about the gradual weaning.  As her stomach adjusts to being fed different foods, she will be even more able to tolerate changes in diet without getting an upset stomach.  Kind of like - the more you do it, the more she will be able to tolerate it.  (Unless she has a particularly sensitive tum, which it doesn't sound like she has.)

"Can fresh food be added to any flavoured JWB? Isn't Amber to young for this? What would she gain if I do this (i.e. ups/downs) bearing in mind I am concern about calcium/phos?"

Personally, I would advise against this, for 2 reasons.  Firstly - you won't always want to add fresh food to her JWB.  Presumably sometimes you'll just want her to eat it as it is.  Once a dog gets used to always having a particularly tasty something or other added to the food, they will often turn their nose up at their food if it doesn't have the extras added.  So, to keep her happily eating it as is, don't add stuff.

Secondly - those extra bits are too tasty to just give her for free.  You should be doing little bits of training every day now - sits and downs and recall training mostly.  So, save the table scraps for those training exercises.  If you give her incredibly tasty treats for free, when you want her to do something for other tasty treats, she might just turn her nose up - as she takes them forgranted and is used to getting them for doing nothing. 

LOL!!! Touché 123!

I was just on the net and discovered the bad news!!! We'll simply mix the two Turkey & Rice (large breed - puppy) and  Lamb & Rice (puppy) followed by CrackerSnacks or MiniJacks which come in 4 flavours: Duck, Fish, Lamb & Turkey and much later on we shall look forward to the Duck & Rice (junior).

I think the training is covered as on a day to day basis from the moment we wake up (sit, lie down, stay etc.. is used a lot) she doesn't listen every time but we are happy with her progress - no treat for that as it is routine and she seem to be learning well).

Believe it or not but when our Amber goes out to poo by herself and we missed the action she runs into the kitchen to get her treat! She just sits in front of the fridge for a bit of cheese. Now all we do (as when it happens) is check if there is a "lump" in the potty area and act accordingly (it could be a coincidence but she has done it 3 times so far). Most time we take her and stand with her and reward appropriately.

Sounds like she is training you well

Absolutely!!! :-) And we thought we were in charge!! Soon she will be looking after us....:rolleyes: I can't wait for her to get my sleepers and newspaper lol! :-)

Being a Golden she most likely WILL, LOL. They live to rerieve and nothing else on earth matters as much. :) Many years ago when I had had surgery in my stomach I couldn't bend down, and so when my cats had been fed I couldn't pick their bowls up off he floor. I told my Golden to fetch them for me and he picked every single one up and brought them to me, and he even stacked them inside ecah other. :D The party piece of my 10 year old Golden is to retrieve a raw egg without breaking it. :)

Amber had a full health check-up on 15/7/06 and the vet confirmed again that she is in perfect health. 
However to be on the safe side (as her ears were a bit mucky and she ruled out ear mite). She prescribed one treatment of ADVOCATE (I believe that is the one you meant Brainless, it deals with flea, larvae, hookworm, whipworm, roundworm, heartworm, otodectes, sarcoptes and demodex). 4 days later she was still itchy and accidentally rolled into something she shouldn't have so we had to give her a bath (which the vet said not to do too often) but after the bath Amber was definitely happier and less itchy and after her brush there was no excess of puppy hair in the brush at all.

The vet also confirmed that she is still getting used to her collar (even after 30 days!)

"Amber will shortly be on 340g daily ration of JWB (I am assuming that she will be 24Kg+ as an adult) please let me know if that is correct?"
No this is incorrect:
JWB food pack feeding guidelines states for adult weight 24kg 340g (I had missed out the NB below the table which says "Guidelines for puppies should be 20g per day per Kilo of her weight (in Amber's case 200g for 10Kg).

JWB Nutrition advisor: 01935 410600 says:
340-470g if feeding Large Puppy performance but for Amber 395g (based on adult weight 28kgs)
395-600g if feeding Puppy performance

JWB online query (via email)
410 grams a day JWB Puppy/performance    
395 grams a day JWB Large Puppy kibble     
And she added "however I would not recommend that you feed the Large Kibble to your Puppy. This kibble is higher in calories and proteins to support a large breed dog such as a Rottweiler or Great Dane"

As I am feeding 330g (incl. snacks) a day, less than the above, I will continue this routine until the end of this week as the vet also confirmed that she is the right weight for her frame. Even in this heat she is eating well. She is really enjoying both JWB turkey and lamb and for snack we give her frankfurters sausasges (frozen) or JWB mini snacks (fish).

I read in a thread that 1kg weight gain per week is about right, how long do I keep this up? Should I increase or reduce her feed if she goes above or below?

The weight gain slows considerably in my breed after they reach five months, but yours is bigger so may be longer.

I have also often found at this age if they are not real chow hounds that their appetites will reduce as they no longer need as much for growth, so you shouldn't worry.

You can really only go by the amount of flesh on her frame.

Thanks will definately keep an eye on the flesh on her frame! (not difficult as she comes to us, goes flat on her back, legs up and expect tummy tickles a lot... )

I have questioned the JWB nutrition advisor's comments re: NOT feeding large breed puppy food to a GR and she replied:
"I would not recommend the JWB Large breed kibble for a Retriever due to the fact that they are on the border line and that they are prone to putting on weight. The kibble is higher in fat content and protein levels which could make your dog overweight"

Just thought you might like to know. Lots of very good points/advice from everyone. I'll keep Amber on the puppy food Lamb/turkey a little longer and decide later (the shop kind of made up my mind for me they were out of stock of the large breed puppy food.