My lovely boy's only 4, doesn't look old to me, or to people I've asked, but has been unplaced or only getting 4th or 5th at all his champ shows lately. The last straw was an open show yesterday when we got 3rd out of 4. In the past he has had a CC, several high placings beating champions at champ shows, two 1sts at Crufts, gained his ShCM, got BIS at a club show, and got numerous BOBs and two Groups at open level, so I don't want people to remember him as some ancient swaybacked thing trying to compete with the youngsters. We're quitting the champ shows after one more we are entered in, but I'm thinking I shouldn't do the open shows either if that's the best he can do. Am I overreacting, or is a dog really finished at 4? He's my first dog, so I don't really know what the normal age is. :-(

It depends v much on the breed, but I would expect a 4 yr old to be in his prime, certainly not ancient, cant speak for the sway backed bit. Some breds mature early, some dogs are flyers and go off, others last for years.

I think some judges go with the flow & put up young dogs because of who owns them rather than the dog themselves. I know one young dog put into open whilst still a junior & being awarded a CC as his father !!! Only when the judge was going  to write out the CC was his identity revealed !

Your Henry certainly isn't "over the hill" & along with some other very nice dogs is coming into his prime, pity the big two as it now is blind people by reputation rather than qualitiy

Lots of dogs(Cavaliers & Beardies come to mind)from some top kennels are over the top at 18 months let alone 4. Totally wrong, the slower a dog matures the better IMHO

I must admit to er giving the wrong age for JD by accident ;) After next September I'll be giving his real age as he will be 7 ! He doesn't look or act 5(his current age)& because he is with the ideal size weight he looks small compared to the biggies that do all the winning Along side Lou he looks like a bitch which is useful in brace classes

I agree with Bazb, it depends on the breed and the individual dog. some dogs take a long time to mature, I've known dogs that win their first ccs at 9. Some dogs can stay 'at the top' for many years. You know your dog best, get a friend to set him up and move him and try and be critical of him. If he still looks ok to you then I would persevere. My 1st borzoi won 1cc, then went for a few months of getting knocked at open shows and being at the bottom of the line up at champ shows then he won his next 2 ccs and a champ show group - he never won an open show group in his career. My next champion done very well at open shows, always a contender for the group and winning many b.i.s., but he wasn't a patch on my first dog. I often think open shows are not a good gauge as often the judges are all rounders and dont know the finer points of your breed. You have a numerically large breed and if you're getting in the line up at champ shows then I would think that was ok, it only takes two more judges to move him up the line :)

Hi Lucyd,

You've had very sensible and sensitive replies - and I whole heartedly agree with them :)   Unfortunately Open Shows are very much a lottery as far as places go - unless of course you're lucky enough to have a trainee breed judge.   At Open Shows I've taken a few BOBs when I shouldn't have and been further down the line when I should have scooped the top spot - at the end of the day it's a good social event as well as an excellent training ground for novice dogs and judges :)

Since your boy has done well before now at Champ level in such a hotly contested breed I'd stick with it - maybe take a break if you feel that either he or you is becoming a bit jaded, but don't give up ;)   Perhaps your breeder is able to advise you on which judges are most likely to appreciate your dog.

It is hard when a dog has had a very star spangled early show career to find that he's being placed further down the line but worth remembering that many a dog has bounced back from the same situation when reaching it's prime - perhaps that will be the case for your boy too.  I hope so.

Good luck, Teri 

I have seen your dog Lucy, and don't think he's passed it.  What I do think is at the moment it's hard for anyone showing Cavalier dogs.   I'd say keep plugging away and good luck :)

Thanks all, I'll have to get my friend to stand and move him for me at the club show in 2 weeks time. As I was planning to take my bitch to the next two shows I had lined up, I may as well enter my boy too and see what happens. If anything he's less jaded than he was at 18 months when we'd been trying for a JW (missed by 3 points, drat it!). He was certainly standing, moving and wagging nicely, so it wasn't anything he did wrong! Perhaps it was me - the Graduate class was judged in 10 seconds because there were no new entries, and so I nearly missed my Open class, perhaps she held that against me. It's hard to know what to do with your first dog - I know Cavaliers seem to be made up at 2 and retired by 4 or 5 nowadays! Thanks particularly to those who've seen my boy and think he's still ok - I think he's as lovely as ever, but those rose-tinted spectacles, you know! :-)

I agree with the above re dogs and open show results - don't worry we've had
some howlers happen to us at open shows - I don't mind being beaten by a better
dog but when it's not :rolleyes:
The main thing to ask yourself is do you and your dog still enjoy the showing??
If you do, don't let it spoil your enjoyment of a nice day out.

I had one girl (Boxer) I showed from the age of 9 mths to almost 10years old.
We had a lovely time and both enjoyed our showing, dabbled in Ch shows
when she was younger didn't do anything so we concentrated on open shows & exemption shows
as were then and then she flew as a veteran at breed Champ shows and even placed at all breed Ch show

I'm the one that's beginning to get a little jaded at Ch shows, but I still enjoy my open & exemption shows.
As long as I enjoy it and my dogs do I shall keep doing it.
The moment it stops becoming enjoyable is the moment to stop...

Good Luck!! & Don't lose heart :)

I don't think 4 can be classes as old...mature yes.My 'oldie' is nearly 6 but LOVES going to the shows despite rarely achieving the results he did a couple of years ago.I have decided to be more chosey over the judges I take him under purely because of cost(showing 3 dogs every time is expensive) but will still take him to all the open and non CC champ shows and under judges who like him.Don't think he'd ever forgive me if I retired him completely!!!!
Archer

I was still showing one of my Spanish until she was 11 years old and she still got a number of Best Import Register at that time beating dogs that have done well since.

Of course as Bazb says it does depend on the breed and let's face it Cavalier's have bigger classes than most.

I would be showing all three of mine if they were eligible for different classes.  For the last couple of years I would have to put two in the same class, one has now moved up and still same problem.  God help us if the oldest wins out of Limit, but at 9 I doubt it.

All three are eligible for stakes classes only, but I am not prepared to pay as much or more for a first entry in stakes as I woudl for the breed competiion, as I so often miss the stakes with them classing with the bitch classes in my breed.

In my breed he would be just reaching his best, and no-one would dream of retiring one until it was well into Veteran.