Ok some help needed.
I thought I could take anything off my dogs. But since reading the thread about it some incident has happened.
I have just started them on BARF and so they have RMB in the evening.
Tonight they were due a rec bone but I gave the wrong one to each dog (one dog is 22kg so needs more than the 10kg). I can take anything off the vizsla and I thought i could take anything of pesto but it seems not. I took the bone of ziggi knowing it would be easy and then went to swap with Pesto and she really really really growled. She clamped her jaw on it and gave me such an evil look. I was scared that she would bite me. The thing is she was really shaking when she was doing it (like she didn't want to do it but felt she had to).
Basically I need help as I will need to take bones off them sometimes but I am now scared of Pesto and If she was choking I need to know I can help her.
Basically I need help on how to stop this resourse guarding (as she won't even do swapsies for an equally valued bone)

Help.

Anna
Oh she lets me take anything else food wise off her just not the bone.
Sorry for the long post.
I feel such a faliure
P.S i did get the bone to swap but i wasn't sure if it was the right thing to do as i didn't want her to get away with growling at me.
sorry

Thats the thing with dogs and bones. Don't know why they find they have to guard a bone but they do. Must admit I never have this problem with the leos but my dearly departed Benji would never let you near him when he had a bone, so I used to put him up the top of the garden with it away from the kids. If mine ever pinch anything or go to pinch the others' food, I, ahem, 'growl' very loudly followed by a loud deep 'leave it!' which usually does the trick. But I really don't know if that would work in your case. Sorry I can't help.
Hope someone will have something more sensible to tell you soon ;)

Yes, my lovely departed boy wouldn't let you near him when he had a bone, anything else we could take out of his mouth, no problem, but bones were definitely his! 

We now have a puppy and I'm making a game of taking the bone from him in play - he doesn't mind at the moment, but we'll see what happens as he gets older.

Sorry I don't have any advice, but I do understand your dilemma!

Maria

Hi there

Bones and such like are highly valued food - much more so than boring old kibble!!!!!  Hence the problem you are having.  He is obviously enjoying his new diet and if you were enjoying a delicious meal how would you feel if somebody came along and tried to take it off you?  You'd probably growl too!!!

However, you have now learned the boundaries with the bones and you have to work with that.  If something like this ever happens again then you just swap it for another bone of same perceived value.  Lots of dogs are like this with high value food so don't worry he's not turned into an ogre, he's just enjoying his food.

The trick is to swop for something of perceived higher value all the time.  Don't know what you would do if he choked though because he then wouldn't be interested in anything else.  So, perhaps you could start getting him into the way of giving things up easily.  Start off by giving him something of relatively low value to him - a toy he's not that fussed with; then give him a treat to give it up.  This should be done over quite a while.  You then progress up to high value.  I get the feeling that you have had a bit of a fright and perhaps your confidence in him is down at the moment.  My advice then is to take time out; build up your relationship again; start to play with him more and get more involved with him and then start the exercises to get him to give things up.

Truly, he is not a bad dog.  He just wanted to keep hold of something he cherished. 

Hope this helps.

Annie

she is fine at giving up everything including hot dogs sausage, cheese everything except the bone.
I did try and swap it for the other bone which i thought would be of equal value - obviously not.
Maybe I have to just except that with bones i leave her alone. and if she was choking i wouldn't care if i got biten if it saved her - tho i don't think she would if she was chokiig and i don't think she would anyway it was just a shock.

Hi

I can understand you feeling like that.  I would get a fright also if it was Ruby, my Bracco who was doing it because she is he softest dog ever.  You seem to be fine with it now though.  Nice to hear that.

Kind regards
Annie

Anna - have a read of this link and, if you really want to solve it, buy the book listed below:

http://www.ahimsadogtraining.com/handouts/resource-guarding.html

Book: http://www.crosskeysbooks.com/product_info.php?products_id=451

thanks 123 really kind of you to post the thread.

I have kinda thought up a training diary to helpp already. using bones as the reward for not growling.
I can get really close to her even with a bone it only actually happened when i put my hand on the bone.

I will make sure the bones are smallish so she can have more than a couple per supper.
I will then go to where she is comfortable with me being and click and give another bone to her.
then gradually over the weeks get closer and also work on with other things to get her leave really really really really strong (it is fairly good at the moment). after she is comfortable with me touching the bone. I thought i would take a few steps away and ask for a leave - any sign of relaxing of the mouth will recieve a click and a bone thrown to her. etc... gettting closer very slowely until eventually (i see this happening in perhaps a couple of months tho she is a very clever girl so i wouldn't be suprised if she gets it very quickely - but i will take it as slowely as she needs) i can move her bone or swap for another piece.
does this sound like a sensible plan?

Thanks agian

Anna

I think you have to go really slowly.  Start standing at a distance to her, click and throw the treats at her.  Will she leave the bone to eat the treats?

Get closer as you suggested but really really slowly.  Show no interest in the bone for a long while.  Several weeks at least.

When you first begin to interact with the bone, just touch it gently on the end, click and treat.  Do that a lot.  Then wrap your hand around it, but don't move it.  Click and treat lots.  Push it with your finger, click and treat lots.  Hold it while she eats it.  Pick it up a short way.  Click and treat lots. And so on. 

The good thing about the book that I recommended is that it has this type of progression, typed out in long hand and you can progress through it.  It tells you what to do if at any stage things don't go to plan.  This is really a v shortened version.  I'd really recommend you get a copy of it.

ok thanks. i will go and order it now.
she will leave the bone to eat another bone but not sure about other treats. i will have to give it ago.
thanks again

You could try just leaving lots of rec bones lying around the house so that your dogs get sick of the sight of them and they are no longer deemed of high value.  Bit like if you and I found £10 in the street we'd be really excited but if a millionaire found £10 they wouldn't be too bothered :D

Also, what I do with my dogs from a very young age is before giving the bone to the dog I keep hold of one end and allow them to chew the other end.  This gets them used to me handling their bones at the same time as they chew it.

I would never try to force a dog to give up a bone or go too close and therefore put it under pressure, I would either try to do a swap, which doesn't always work if what you are swapping for isn't of any interest, or I would try to distract the dog by say going into another room or going into the garden and starting up a game of tuggy or something.

Best of luck in whatever you decide to try.

Anna,
have you tried having somebody else remove the bone? I know my old GSD was a fantastic girl and we used to give her bones whilst I mowed the lawn (to stop impending mower attacks :rolleyes: )  but to mow the other side of the lawn I used to have to move her... now if I went up to her to move the bone she would have growled at me, but my daughter was always able to walk straight up to her and move the bones with no problems. (not that I am suggesting to send child in to move the bone!) but she must have seen me as some sort of threat to her bones
I don't know if anything had happened before we had her with bones/food etc as she was 3 when we took her on. But like yourself all other food was never an issue.
don't know if that has been of any help