Hi everyone

I have a problem with my 13th month old GSD, in fact not a problem with him but with other dogs in that they all keep attacking him.  Kody is the most inoffensive dog you could wish to meet, he is everybodies friend...dogs and humans.  But I am worried that his temperament will change if he gets attacked much more.  Last night was a prime example we were at training (Outdoors) and doing a down stay, I must admit that one of the dogs he was next to (fairly new to our class) is a bit aggressive more fear than anything else, I noticed Kody give a sideways glance at him and then avoided eye contact but within a flash the other dog rushed at him growling, hackles raised etc., fortunately his owner called him off in time.  I decided to move up the line so that Kody was with dogs that know him a bit more. This time we were doing a recall and just as Kody had almost reached me the dog next to him flew at him....this really surprised me as they do training together 2 - 3 times a week, and I have never noticed aggression in this dog before.  Poor Kody took quite a while to relax after that, even doing his heel work he kept looking over his should just to make sure no-one was behind him.   On Tuesday we had training in a field, everything was fine we were all walking down the footpath to our cars when all of a sudden one of the dogs whose owner was in front came from behind, growled and I think nipped Kody before rushing past, Kody gave out a yelp but fortunately no harm done.    The strange thing is this seems to be happening more and more I think he must have UNDERDOG imprinted on his forehead that only other dogs can read!!  On a more serious note I am worried that Kody will either end up a nervous wreck or could possibly turn aggressive to get in first if you know what I mean.  Most of thee dogs have known KOdy since he was eleven weeks and all have been fine with him, it is just the last month or so that he seems to have become unpopular, is it that he is reaching maturity I am at a lost..anyone any answers??

Is he castrated or entire? That could have a bearing on it. Mind you, I've known several male dogs, some castrated, some entire, that seemed to be Life's natural victims, and there was nothing anyone could do about it. :( Is it only male dogs that pick on him, or bitches too?

Are all the dogs that are having a go at him male?

If so, it may be that poor Kody is giving off lots of testosterone (in young male dogs, there is a huge amount of this, often 3 x as much as in a mature male entire dog). If this is the case, male dogs may well be trying to lord it over him a bit.

I will say, the owners at your training class don't all seem to be very "dog aware" so it may not be a bad idea to keep Kody away for a few months, or at least to have a word with the instructor to please  remind people to keep good control of their dogs, and to keep good distance when everybody is sitting or whatever, as all he is learning at the moment is that dogs will have a go at him. If this keeps happening he will learn to retaliate and you really don't want that.

A possible answer may be castration, (if the problem does seem to come from other males) but then it is probably just as easy to work through all this and wait until his hormone levels drop naturally :)

Lindsay
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Hi

Kody is entire...I must admit I did wonder if it was an age thing, as you say giving off all that testosterone..It doesnt appear to be a body language issue..the thing is Kody does training 3 times a week, this week 4 times as he training to be a search and rescue dog so a bit difficult to keep him away.  The trainer is fantastic and dealt with the situations as soon as they arose, but it happens obviously out of class as well.  Kody has been off the lead (Obviously where it is safe) since a young pup and has never run up to other dogs, as he is totally ball orientated and would rather play with me and the ball, however I have noticed a few dogs seem to be coming up to him recently,  Kody always lays down in the submissive pose telling them he is no threat, this used to work but recently it ha lost its effect!! I also have an 8 yr old bitch who I think has taught Kody his manners very well, she also has a lovely temperament and will try to avoid other dogs at all costs, but the strange thing is I have always noticed that other dogs start to run up to her and then stop in their tracks and run away, she must give off something that tells them BEWARE, other people have noticed this as well...So I have one dog that attracts the wrong kind and another that keeps all others away...the wonderful world of dogs Hee Hee

If the dog is already lacking in confidence castration could make things for him very much worse taking away what little he has.

His hormone levels should stablise to a less threatening level to other dogs as he matures.

In the meantime careful management and lost of positive exposure to other canines bitches and castrated males and self assured no need to prove a point entire ones.

This problem is called testosterone :-)  happens with all males, my own teenagers and our dogs!  Those dogs which get the calling to be aggressive to other dogs during this stage need a firm hand, your dog is perfectly behaved during this stage and others must also control their dogs and be more wary, have the trainer have a word with the class as they are all going to be about the same age.

Your gentleman should not take the brunt from the other teenagers.  He is being picked on due to his size, you need to put a stop to it for the reasons you have already stated.

I have the same problem with my 14 month old golden retriever (entire male).  Other dogs come up and greet my 3 bitches very happily, come over to Campbell, one sniff and they attack him!  He had a male lab mount him very aggressively at the weekend - the lab didn't actually bite him but got very close to it and made lots of noise - poor Campbell just stood there and took it while I told him how good he was.  Needless to say the owner was fairly ineffectual.

I have the same trouble with my ccr he is 14 months we usually go for our walk lunch time ,he is 14 months,I have a little girl who is 4 and another who is 2 we have a great time we go to a local nature reserve where we usually meet up with a castrated gsd and a castrated lab they play great together, a few wekks ago a choc entire lab started joining us he is 2 yrs old as soon as he saw Trav he came running over mouth open ready to have a go at him,luckily he is a lot quicker than the lab,the lab leaves the other dogs alone,Trav is a real softy very protective of the girls and if this dog is now out when we are Trav will place himself betwen the girls, even on his lead this lab will try to have a go at trav,It has got to the stage we are now having our walk until early evening the thing is Trav is not having his usual play with the other dogs

Sounds like my dog, he is entire and around the same age was always getting attacked by male dogs, not all, as some had manners. It seems to have settled down a little now he is 2, having said that maybe we have just been meeting well behaved boys. It is quite upsetting and put me off socialising as freely for a while, i also went down the route of shall we get him neutered but changed my mind. There is one goldie in particular who we meet, i never realise it's the same one until it's too late. The owner always says he's alright and he mounts Tyler and Growls at him, Tyler wanders off to sniff and this dog continues to harass him. So we try and avoid them now. Girls are fine he has a whale of a time.

i have a similer problem with my boxer and he is an 11 month old castrated dog!

i dont knwo weather boxers have problems in genral becasue they look diffrent, or becasue they have no tail so other dogs cant read there body luanguage as well.

when out on walsk i have problems with peopls dogs runnign over to my boxer growling and snapping, yet dont even look at my 2 young bitches. it cant be a testoterone thing with my boxer. and many male dogs try to hump him to.

Hi wolfwoman it is not always to do with your own dogs scents or anything to do with your dog being entire or castrated it is to do with the other young male dogs testosterone levels also, you can bet your life the dogs approaching yours and others are all approx the same age a lot of young males will challenge and try to hump, I personally find it very distatesful and get extremely annoyed when owners say it is just a phase, they need to lead their dogs and teach them to behave appropriately towards all other dogs and only make friendly interactions. (But not that friendly ;-) )

Aggressive challanging and humping is not a right and needs to be kept in line along with all other training and behaviours.  If the owners of such dogs will not do their bit, then avoid at all costs no-ones dog should be bullied.

I had my SP castrated at the age of 3 due to the fact that he was continually attacked by other male dogs.Many of the attacks were unprovoked and the majority were male labs which are very plentiful here.He was even attacked from behind at an agility class whilst he was on the course!.I did talk to a behaviourist and she put it down to the fact we got him at 7 weeks, so he was lacking social skills and gave off the wrong signals....but as I said some of the attacks were totally unprovoked, so I am not sure that adds up.My mistake in hindsite was carrying on with the attitude that all would be ok as he never started a fight, dogs just picked on him. Then at the age of 3 he went for a dog that was jumping out of a car, I know why he did it, he thought it was going for him, but he still went in first. The next day he was castrated. I have big regrets now that I didn't do it sooner, I was never going to breed from him. Castration has helped with other dogs not liking him, but he now has the attitude that he doesn't trust other dogs, and will put them in their place as soon as another dog shows any aggression. I was told several times by 'experts' that my dog was totally non aggressive. I do have total (well 99.9 %) control over him when out, and always carry treats so that when we see other dogs he knows that he will be leashed and given a treat. Potentially due to his history I think he could become a real bully and I don't want him to. I have my Barbet arriving in December, and already know that I will not be walking them together. 

Would getting a dog a 7 weeks make that much difference? I was always led to believe 7 or 8 weeks is fine for a puppy to leave there mother.

I have been told several times that the last week with their litter mates is one of the most important as it teaches them lasting social skills. Having read the threads, it seems that castration is a solution but should be done with the knowledge that the dog still needs an awful lot of guidance with behaviour, as you may just have a different problem. My SP was never humped or did he hump, neither was he submissive when meeting other dogs, even as a puppy. One thing though, the first walk after he was castrated, he rolled in fox poo. He has never done it since luckily, isn't rolling a female thing!.

>isn't rolling a female thing

No, it's a canine thing, and not gender-related!

My SWD has a fear of Boxers and other breeds with short noses and I must admit he tries to hve a go at them!  Don't know why though, I think it's to with his breathing!

Just to add I agree with what Brainless has said, in that if a dog is actually lacking in confidence it is best to not castrate. Reason being that the testosterone is not just the s*x hormone but also acts as giving social confidence. So therefore the one dog in particular that should probably not be castrated is one lacking in confidence.

Lindsay
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Hi Lindsay

I would like to say that I dont think Kody is lacking in confidence, he has never appeared to, although he drops to the ground in submission he never backs off and thank God up  it never seems to bother him when dogs go for him although as I mentioned it was a different kettle of fish last night.  As other people have mentioned in their posts my main worry is that if he is constantly "Bullied" he may try to get in first and become aggressive.  The strange thing is the only dog he has shown interest in was a castrated one, and his owner said he was constantly pestered by other dogs, apparently they give off a different type of smell.  Obviously if the problem did get much worse my only course of action may be castration, but up until now I hadnt even given it a thought.

I would imagine castrated dogs do give off a different smell as there is nothing there!! but i also think it depends on the dogs personality, as my dog can get along with both neutered or uneutered dogs, but some dogs just don't like him. We were at a charity dog show and most dogs were neutered, and this neutered yellow lab was lovely with the neutered choccy lab next to them, but us on the other side, the yellow lab snapped at my Tylers ear and caught it, in return Tyler barked back. The choccy lab owner was then in a competition and was next to my husband with Tyler, and proceeded to say ' keep your dog away from mine there a snappy breed' I am assuming from her angle all she had seen was Tyler bark, but he has just been nipped on the ear by the lab. I was fuming! It was a while ago but still makes me angry now.

Golden Retrievers a snappy breed???

Mine is but on the whole they are not usually.
My springer had exactly the same problem. Trouble is i had him castrated partly to stop the unprovoked attacks, and partly because as a rescue dog it was in his contract to do so. Unfortunately it made things worse as he went from attacked to attacker. He hates entire males and will go for them, i'm not sure if it is because he was attacked by them so many times or whether its simply a male thing. Its very frustrating though, i'm not so keen to have a male again because of this.

Certainly don't think most people would think so Lucy, although any breed of course can have an off day.

I had my older GR neutered because of the attacks on him when he was a youngster and I was lucky in that it did solve the problem for me.  Sorry to hear that it created a different problem for you. :( 

We had to have our rescue GR pup neutered at 7 months in line with the rescue's policy and now he seems quite attractive to other dogs - but could just be he is 9 months old and giving off the right scents. He no longer seems to want to go and play with all passing dogs but this could just be that the training is kicking in now or that he has grown up a bit ( seriously doubt that idea though :) ).

>He no longer seems to want to go and play with all passing dogs but this could just be that the training is kicking in now or that he has grown up a bit

could well be the case, harley! for sure, nips at coming up to 11 months now is far, far less interested in every single dog he encounters and this has been the case for a couple of months now. he is entire and i intend to keep him that way despite the fact that the testosterone has been surging through his loins like a raging torrent since he reached puberty but even that is calming down now.

and whether i'm just lucky, i don't know (and for sure it isn't down to my laid-back training methods), but he doesn't get picked on or pick on other dogs, regardless of their entirety or lack of it. however, since i don't expect this to happen as a given, it may be that i don't give off any sort of nervousness that he could pick up on. or it may be that he's as laid back as my training methods...;)

of castration though, the dog i know who is still the most rampant humper and attracter of other canine attentions is his mate moby who is the same age as nips but who was castrated some while back. 

Well my 13 month GR still goes daft over every dog he meets - can't wait for him to be less interested! :D  I think some entire dogs are a bit puzzled by neutered dogs, not quite sure what they are! :P

My 14 month old GR is the same Annie. He's just potty for dogs. I could be dancing in the ocean (loves swimming) covered in sausages and squeeky toys and I think dogs would be more interesting. :-D

What a wonderful image Lori! :D

Mine was just the same, but now at 2 he is just learning to resist the temptation and continue with his walk.

>What a wonderful image Lori!<

That's what the peeps on the beach thought! NOT some grumpy men in a white van tried to get me to model their new coat but I wasn't having it.. :-D

:D :D  I know those men, they've been trying that tactic with me as well :P

re "dropping to the ground in submission", do you mean he rolls over and shows his belly or that he goes into a down, does anyone know if these two actions are the same, only i thought the former was submission and the second an invitation to play, does anybody know?

If i really have to tell my dog off, which i don't normally, but when he knows i mean business he often does a lay down. I have always thought that when they role over it's trust thing for them to expose the underside of there tummy. But i may be wrong.

No he doesnt roll over, although he did when he was a small puppy, but he does drop down and licks other dogs faces in a friendly way, when other dogs approach him he doesnt cower either,  but I think he soon will if dogs carry on attacking him the way they do !!!!  I did notice on Sunday wehn I took him training he was VERY wary of the 2 dogs that had gone for him the previous session, he wouldnt come on the recall just sat there (which is unheard of) because he had been attacked whilst doing the recall... and in the down stay he kept getting up, again never done this before until attacked whilst he was doing this.  The two offending dogs were not near us..the trainer suggested I stay with him whilst he is in the down and only take a couple of paces back to do the recall for the time being...such a shame as he is excellent on these.  Just need to build his confidence back up..until he is attacked again !!!!

I know exactly what you mean, my dogs not keen on going to training now as he has been snapped at a few times for no fault of his own that i am aware of, he tries to pull me to the door if anything starts up around him, I have started going less ofton but dont want to stop completely, its a dilemma.

Sadly you do get canine bullies who will pick on natural victims, the kind of dog that is showing overly submissive behaviour and is an easy target.  The fault lies with the bullies lack of social graces and manners.

Agreed, brainless.

although i also think it's important not to assume that a dog will be subject to future attacks and put what has happened in the past. otherwise you'll transmit your nervousness to the dog and that's the easiest route towards a self-fulfilling prophecy. for sure, i'd be very thoughtful about subjecting my dog to proven bullies at training class because i'd expect their owners to be working on their social graces and manners but on an everyday basis you have to take an optimistic attitude or every single outing has the potential to be a nervy, stressful experience. 

of "attacks", mind, they can come from surprising quarters since nips was very surprised to be growled and snapped at by a 12 week old westie at the weekend! his response was to give the snappy little blighter a withering look that said "am i bovvered?". and on receiving an apology from the westie's owner i mildly suggested that he might benefit from a deal of socialisation over the next few weeks!