any suggestions on this one my girl cant stand the noise of bits of metal banging, I suspect this goes back to her breeder hitting the metal cage, the day i got her she was in a cage a quivvering little wreck, its always if she sees a metal rod ( spade handle/ jack handle anything similar to that  ) she will just bolt, shes totally petrified of it and if shes near you and you pick up something like that she cowers down its awful to see you would think shes been beaten every day of her life ( shes so good shes never had a raised word since she has been with us ! ) and any noise of metal on metal makes her totally freak out she just puts her ears flat to her head, tail between her legs and runs so fast, trouble is if shes on a lead I cant hold her, shes had me flat on my face on the park when the park keeper chucked a spade into his flat bed truck I am worried one day she will do this on the main road, all we need is someone removing scaffolding from a house and I know she will do exactly the same she just seems to need to run, she doesnt stop until the noise stops, and I cant hold her when she freaks out
My daughter is handicapped and has a walking frame which is metal and she totally accepts the noise that makes, we had to collapse the frame to negotiate steps at the sea side the other evening and the walker just touched the metal hand rail she freaked and very nearly had hubby off the edge of a cliff
ANY SUGGESTIONS PLEASE

Hi :)

You could try the slow process of getting her accustomed to various noises made by different metals on metal - different pitch etc - it will take some time but may help.  What you are aiming for is that she becomes less reactive when she hears these and similar noises - done by teaching her to associate a positive event when she hears sounds which just now cause a fearful response.  This will require much patience on your part but should pay off and one of the easier ways to start this re-training of her is to have the type of offending noises going on in the background while she is eating.  If you can make a CD or tape of varying metal on metal noises, then play same when she is eating - initially with a very low volume.  Gradually build the volume when you see improvements in her reactions.  Perhaps also introduce the CD/tape when she is playing - if she becomes fearful, reduce the volume and also try and distract her and motivate a calm response.

Clicker training may be a helpful way around it providing that she is not so noise sensitive that a clicker in itself would upset her.  If you use the [search] facility on here you'll find numerous threads relating to clicker training.

In the meantime, because I don't believe this will be a quick fix solution, I'd recommend that you invest in either a headcollar or harness so that in the event of her being totally freaked out when on her walks with you she can't pull you or your husband off your feet or worse still into traffic.

HTH, regards, Teri :)    

My 5yo whippet never had any bad experiences related to metal or metal noises, never had a problem crating, BUT is terrified at the sound of metal banging just like yours.  So it may not be that it's because of something that happened, it may just be that there's a 'tone' to it that bothers her.  This same dog is FINE about gunshots and fireworks and thunder - go figure.

She's nowhere NEAR as bad as she used to be.  It was a pain at shows as everytime someone broke down a crate she'd freak out.  Now I've learned that if I can face her in the direction of the noise and she can SEE what's going on she won't worry so much about it.

It took a long time of basically just ignorning her reactions to it, exposing her to it, and leting her learn that nothing bad was going to happen.

if you make a big deal about it you teach her that there is something to be scared of.

I desensitised 2 of my girls to the vacuum just by hiding treats round it and making a game of it.  You could do the same with metal yard tools.  First have treats round it and let her find them.  Then make a bit of noise with them and let her build up the courage to get the treats just after/during the noise and so on.

Good luck

Wendy

My 4 year old Groenendael is also frightened of any kind of metallic sounds - at shows I just pray that people round the ringside don't start collapsing their crates while I'm trying to show him - this happened at Crufts last year and he just fell to pieces - he's always been sound sensitive but this type of noise really freaks him out - I've tried de-sensitising him but he still gets into  a real state at the shows if he hears this kind of banging metal sound :(

Yvonne

Hi Ellies mum -

First I would suggest you get a book on clicker training.  I'd recommend "Click for Joy" by Melissa C Alexander.  It's available from Amazon.  It's very readable and you can dip in and out, you don't have to read it from cover to cover.

The first thing you'd need to do is to condition the clicker, which is described in the book.  This just means - making the clicker = a reward to the dog. 

In your case, I would then just use the clicker to train a couple of other neutral behaviours first, like a sit and a down.  So the dog has a deeper understanding of the clicker than just using it when applied to metal noises.  (Even if your dog already knows sit and down, just use the clicker to mark the correct behaviour as usual.)

This might take a couple of weeks.

Then I would try a couple of different things.  I would try shaping her to touch these objects she is afraid of.  Put one of them on the floor and wait.  If she takes one step towards it, even if she's the other side of the room, click and reward that step.  Give her time and space and don't say anything, don't give any verbal praise or commands or encourage her to do anything.  Just let her figure out for herself what is making the click happen.  As she gets more confident you can raise the criteria.  So at first you might reward a step towards the object from the other side of the room.  But if she makes a leap forwards and takes several steps - that becomes your new base line and you'll only reward that distance or closer.  And so on.  Eventually you can click and reward nose touches or paw touches on the object. 

Then you'll need to start all over again with a new metal object and so on, until you've done enough different objects that she has generalised it to "all" metal objects.  (It will take longest the first time and will be faster when you do it with subsequent objects.)

When your dog is fine touching a number of different objects in this way, then have someone else hold the object, still (not swinging it around) and do the same thing, rewarding the dog for any movement towards the object at first and eventually for nose touching or paw touching the object.

At the same time, I would somehow try to get recordings of some of these noises she is afraid of.  The internet is a wonderful thing and I'm sure there must be "noise sample download pages" or something of that kind, where you can download all types of metal noises from.  If not, just get your tape recorder out and get out and record some, yourself.  You might need some helpers to make the noises for you.  Try to get several samples of each noise - at least 5.  You will be playing the noises at gradually increasing volumes.  Don't let your dog hear you making the tape!

Don't let your dog hear the tape until you've listened to it a few times and know what to expect.  Then play it at a very very low volume, ideally at a level which your dog doesn't react at.  Click and treat constantly during this.  Gradually increase the volume level, always keeping an eye on your dog's reaction.  If your dog becomes frightened, you've raised to volume too quickly, so go back a step.  Keep clicking and treating throughout. 

Once you can play the tape at a normal volume level without your dog reacting, and your dog is freely walking up and nose or paw touching these objects when someone is holding them, then you should begin with someone standing at a great distance from you, ready to make a metal-on-metal noise.  Have your dog on a long line so she can get some way away if she wants to.  You can't be too far away - if your dog shows no reaction, click and treat and approach closer.  And so on, until your dog can stand right next to it and show no reaction.  Then repeat with a different type of metal on metal noise.  If your dog is afraid at any point, it means you're going too fast and you should go back and increase the distance.

Try to keep her away from metal noises she might react to on walks etc during this process.  If she is pushed too far before she's ready it will set her back.

Good luck!  Just to give you some hope - I have a dog which is terrified of the halti.  I've no idea why (and all headcollars).  I have, this week, been shaping her to put her head inside the halti.  I started off just putting the halti on the floor and clicking for even a look at it.  Today I have been able to do the snap up at the back and click and treat that.  So - this method does work.

thanks every one for the useful suggestions, sorry I havent replied before had loads of pc problems.
she has overcome the handle from the trolley jack now ( that was only a visual fear though no noise was involves with it).  my friend is on crutches at the minute and shes petrified of them I must admit they do look metal but they are not!, so it isnt just the noise it is anything that looks like a metal bar as well, she doesnt freak and run without the noise but she will go right away from them and not go near it for anything.
I'll try the noise recording, and try the clicker as well I am not sure if she would actually pay any attention to the click if shes heard the noise and freaked, she is so obedient and good and so unlike her.
would a harness make any difference to hold her when she freaks? my mate has a lab he walks a lot better with it than with a normal lead ( hes terrible on a lead and pulls her and the other dog everywhere  but she cant hold him if he really wants to pull and is about 1/3 of my girls size?

>In the meantime, because I don't believe this will be a quick fix solution, I'd recommend that you invest in either a headcollar or harness so that in the event of her being totally freaked out when on her walks with you she can't pull you or your husband off your feet or worse still into traffic.

Suggested earlier ;)

"and try the clicker as well I am not sure if she would actually pay any attention to the click if shes heard the noise and freaked"

Well, the thing is you shouldn't be letting her "freak" at the noises!  you should be starting from a distance where she feels comfortable and doesn't freak, and only very slowly going forwards.  If you proceed at the right pace she will never freak out.

The harness wouldn't help her to have a better association with the noise, although it might be kinder on her neck when she does freak out.  Unless you're talking about having a lead walking problem too, which is a different thing entirely and which a harness might help.  (Especially a stop-pull harness.)

I agree, if you let her get to the stage where she does freak, the fear will become more ingrained and you will have gone 3 steps forward and 2 steps back...

Just wanted to wish you luck and hope things improve, I am sure they will if you follow the excellent advice given :)

Lindsay
x

carrying on from onetwothree's post,

is it possible to attend a show (minus dog) and tape the sounds of cages collapsing etc?  This would be really useful in using a desensitising process :)   If there's a town market near you this would also be good for taping metal sounds as they take down the stalls at the end of the day :) :)

There must be loads of metal sounds you could tape to use :)

Good luck, sounds like life is a bit of a trial for both of you at the moment :)