I have just come back from the vets with my boxer.
I explained the behaviour pattern; I could not film all of it because as it is he has not done it since the last time last week.

As it was I was filming the dogs on the phone camera and managed to get the beginnings of the behaviour.

Vet checked as much as possible today and has taken some bloods.

He doesn't feel the behaviour is consistent enough to be a neurological problem at this point.

The fact that he never does it at home, or when on the lead or enclosed spaces, points to a possible abandonment issue.

It has happened 3 times in the time I have had him, every time it has happened, has been in an open space, where he suddenly appears to realise he is on his own and appears to panic about his surroundings.
The vet did say he had seen such behaviour before in dogs that had come from rescues, especially those that had been in rescues from pups.

The issue here could well be that he was never let off lead before I had him, and most of his life he has been confined to a cage/kennel.

I have been told to write a diary of events of his daily routine, also to write down everything that happens before during and after the behaviour and see if a pattern emerges.

At this point the vet feels that it could be because he is a young, sensitive dog, that has had a bad start, and poor socialisation, and sometimes he gets over stimulated and not know what to do with himself.

If he has any more, he is going to be referred and have some more tests.

For now though it looks to be behavioural.

Hi Clare,

I'm glad there is no immediately obvious clinical sign of a problem - keeping a diary detailing the onset, duration, symptoms etc of such events is a good idea and should help both you and your vet understand things better.  It may well be an "abandonment issue" but again that could be bringing on a seizure (my old girl's fits were brought on through stress).

In the meantime I'd restrict him to exercising on a long line for a few weeks and only if you have a suitably enclosed space would I let him free run.  Hopefully that way if it is a psychological problem with him he will begin to gain confidence and overcome issues of being "abandoned".   Try and incorporate lots of interaction with him on exercise so that he's mentally as well as physically stimulated and also encourage him to enjoy being in your company rather than fear being out of it (if you get my drift!)

Please keep us posted. 
regards, Teri

Bear in mind that dogs and people put in fearful situations, who otherwise do not exhibit symptoms of seizure or collapse, can do so under extreme stress.  Teri is exactly right when she says try to keep him close when outside to make him feel safe, keep him stimulated so he doesn't have the time to be scared. 

When you are at home and able to watch him in a restful situation watch his eyes for ceiling gazing, I know that sounds crazy but it just means he could be out of it for a second or two when his eyes drift upward and he looses concentration (a sort of petit mall).  This will give you a big clue as to if there is a neurological issue that is exacerbated by stress.  If this is the case it is not so terrible and can be managed by developing a routine to fit your dog.  Keeping him happy and stimulated is a big part of this.

Yes, petit mals can last a matter of seconds and may be no more obvious than a momentary lapse in concentration or the dog lifting one front paw. 

My girl had mainly very short duration episodes but the symptoms could vary quite a bit.  Stress definitely can exacerbate epileptic seizures but our girl first fitted at 5 years of age and lived into her 14th year never needing medicated so if it turns out to be something like this for your boy it need not be a life changing event.

regards, Teri   

Whats' his HEART like? I'm asking because Boxer is a breed with heart problems, as is Cavalier, and similar to what Teri describes, my Cavalier have mini fits many, many times a day -suddenly he becomes unsteady on his legs, eyes glaze over, it varies -at worst he may fall over but that is rare, most of the time (up to 20-30 times a day) he just suddenly stands perfectly still and stares into space, then becomes normal again. He has a heart condition and my vet explained that these mini fits happen when the heart fails to pump blood properly to the brain.

His heart has been checked twice since I have got him. First off at a routine check up when I first got him, then today when we went to the vets.

I was concerned it may be a heart problem to begin with, because I had heard boxers can suffer from heart problems. I was wondering weather stress was causing his heart to malfunction and causing him to have less oxygen to the brain at stressful times.
However the vet said his heart was good and strong, as is his breathing.

It was a relief to hear that, and so ruled out anything caused by heart problems. I have been watching him like a hawk as of late. We had a lovely day swimming today, and he was very relaxed and happy. There were no problems today. I do agree with the keeping him thinking and stimulated. He is a lot happier in general if he is occupied.

I think you are doing a great job with your dogs and have a good  heart,  you certainly do all that you can for them. Although you seem to take on a lot,  I commend you for trying to help and giving your time and a lot of effort into sorting out any problems, the RSPCA have faith in you and so does your vet, it is nice to see someone who will put the effort into training and caring. Also very pleased that it does not look like a medical problem and I hope that all goes well and you can turn this boxer around. :-)

why would he then run away from you if you approached him? if he's having a fit and stood stuck to the spot like you said- how does he snap out of it and run away?

hope you get to the bottom of this problem :)

I will try to explain exactly what he does.
We would have been out for about 30 mins, all 3 dogs playing with the ball. Then towards the end of the session they start to wind down a bit. Throughout the 30 mins I put the dogs on and off the leads up to 3 times if there other dogs etc

Boxer may continue to play with the ball, or he may just be sniffing around.

I will call them ready to put there leads on, and the boxer will suddenly not let me go near him. So I will back off and get the other dogs that always come when I call straight away.

The boxer will then start to run round like a loon, and then will suddenly stand rooted to the spot. I will again ask him to come to me and present a treat or a toy and he will stare at me like I am something scary and then back away, sometimes even running backwards keeping his eye on me.

This is one scenario. It doesn't always happen like this.
If I leave him and turn my back on him he will creep up behind me, but if I turn round he will stop, root him self to the spot and start to shake.

This will basically go on for as long as 20 mins.

He will then jump at every little noise he hears, and if he sees another dog or people he runs away like he is scared.

Eventually he just walks up to me and stops by me. He looks up and me and then sits.
I usually then put his lead on and we walk home.

Other times he has done it when we were alone, and out of the blue he just stopped listening to me, and would not come near me. Despite being almost glued next to me on the whole walk.

Perhaps he may have been a bit lacking in the recall at the end of a walk and got a good beating when he finally came ?

Poor boy sounds although the going home may have been very traumatic :(

Lucy
xx

exactly what i thought lucy. i also thought maybe the other owners would use a treat or toy to entice him and then give him a good beating.

Wolfwoman have you tried running away from him with the other dogs. or possibly just put him on the lead earlier? perhaps if you lay down and just stroked your other dogs he would come.

Try to put the lead on often during the walk give him a really tasty treat when the lead goes over his head. (something you know he will love ;) ) Take it off again after a few minutes so he sees it is not a threat to him. Try this over a few days decreasing the frequency and hopefully he will settle down ;)

Try him without the other dogs at first as well :)

I am sure he will be fine after he is taught that it is not bad to have your lead put back on after a walk ;)

Lucy
xx

I think you are very close to the route of the problem, now I hear it described exactly.  It doesn't have to be that he had a good beating when he finally came back just someone misunderstanding the rules of the recall.  I have seen it in an other wise happy healthy puppy who would simply hide when recalled, dodge out of the way when within arms reach and react in a very similar way to yours.  Turns out that the first time dog owner would simply make a grab for the puppy or rugby tackle it to the ground to put its lead on, insisting it would not come when called.

It is not an instant fix situation.

If it were me I would always get your younger pups back first when it is time to go home then round up your boxer but before I got that far I would teach him that having his lead put on is a good experience as is coming back instantly when called.  Try never to put him in the situation were he can refuse to come back and you will allow it. 

To get him used again to being comfortable with having the lead attached, and I know I am probably telling you something you know about already but it doesn't hurt to re learn.  Call him to you in the garden and just hold his collar for three seconds saying lead on and give him a treat.  Do it regularly and separately from the little puppies.  After a week progress to 'lead on', meaning actually attaching the lead - treat hold lead for 10 seconds and give the 'lead off' instruction so he knows exactly what will happen next.  By the third week he should be anticipating the treat, or good experience, every time to put the lead on.  Practice alongside recall.  He is probably mixed up and needs very clear instruction.

Good luck with him

In addition to all the other great advice, Bach Flower Essences would help to release any fears.  I'd start with Star of Bethlehem for trauma, possibly Rock Rose for terror, and/or Mimulus for all known fears.  They very gently help the dog release the negative effects of past abuse/terrors etc and can do no harm.  If you give a wrong remedy it will simply bounce harmlessly off the system.  You'll get them in chemist/health food shops or online at www.worldwideshoppingmall.co.uk  Doseage is 4 drops 4 times daily on a bit of bread or similar treat.  Use the bottle(s) up - about 3 weeks and see how he is.

To learn more about them, and for advice, try here

http://www.flowersociety.org/safer.htm

http://www.bachessences.com/usremedychooser.html

Another thought is that this could be a reaction to the vaccination he probably had recently, as you don't appear to have been told this was happening prior to you bringing him home?  http://www.canine-health-concern.org.uk/  
For that you'd have to consult a Homeopathic Vet who could treat him.

http://www.bahvs.com/

http://www.trusthomeopathy.org/trust/tru_over.html

Good luck, I hope you can get to the root of it and get him sorted soon.