Would the non-horsey folk and the horsey ones amongst us please look at this and pass comment:

http://horsesforlife.com/content/view/421/415/

This is Rolkur - a technique that the top dressage riders are using.....

Thats all I'll say for now, I am interested in your opinions please :)

Words fail me well almost, disgusting, cruel, evil *!+*!++*s come to mind The same as pulling the horses head up like they did in victorian  & earlier times in carriage horses How can it be justified ?

I'm disgusted ChloeH    The poor creatures are clearly in distress, having difficulty breathing, virtually unable to see where they're going and the strain together with pain to their neck muscles must be enormous.

Such beautiful, willing, brave creatures - and total ####### abusing them in the name of sport

Teri
a one time "horsey folk"

It looks incredibly uncomfortable........and totally unnecessary. When I've watched dressage the horses appear relaxed and willing, I don't imagine horses doing this feel the same.

Val

ps - if there is a petition against I'll sign it.

That fills me with deep sadness. I used to ride years ago Chloe, haven't done any dressage though and don't plan to.  But that's not riding, that's barbaric and downright cruelty, :-( :-( completely unnatural for the horse.   What happened to rider and horse in perfect harmony? 

how is that different to a normal double bridle?

what do you mean?

its not the bridle, its the way they are forced to overbend - they can't even see where they are going...

oh right i was looking for some sort of torterous equipment.:rolleyes:
are they not getting marked down for this in the ring?

just looks the same as what loads of people in the uk get with draw reins.

i dont think they look in distress tbh,they look like they are working.

its not my cup of tea,tbh,but i dont think its cruel

There is a big difference between working long and low and this extreme overbending.

Draw reins are also considered cruel when used in extremes.

http://www.sustainabledressage.net/rollkur/why_not.php

This is a good article on the effects of working a horse in such a way.

things are always abused, thats what humans are like.:rolleyes:

doesn't mean it should be allowed.

i dont & have never like dressage, but its not my sport. so id not like to say, no ban it.

its a fashion fad,
why are they doing it...they must be winning?

they can't even see where they are going...

There was a dog at Crufts in the World Cup whose head carriage was most unnatural, being vertically upwards & my friend who was judging thought it was awful(well worse that than TBH)She said when she was behind the dog in heelwork it could not have seen where it was going because she could see his eyes from behind & that it was most unsettling for her. One ticket handler described the head position as being like the "Toilet Duck" bottle. Without the bridle etc used on these horses the mind boggles as to how this dog was taught to hold it's head

i wish she had docked it then. we were all hoping she would

She did but I don't know how much as I haven't had a chance for a gossip(if she had been the original judge I would have known as I would have been in her team for my sins)she was surprised he made the final line up His set exercises must have been good

I have always wondered whether Obedience dogs that wrap around the handler and crab like so many do have problems with their spines etc as they age?

that is not the desired position. a ob dog should not be "wrapped" around legs, nor should it be crabbing.

i get flynns back checked annually, (& would more if there appeared to be a problem) & theres been no problems so far.

many dogs work well into their teens,very happily, at a high level

i was gutted he was 4th we all wanted it completly hammered.

Will pm you - well changed my mind to put my comments down as others have.

I found this quite distressing to look at the horses are obviously in a great deal of distress.

They look in a lot of discomfort - the outline is overdone anyway so not sure what they are achieving by using this - the also looked unbalanced - too tense and the strain on the neck well words fail me.  Looking at the horses eyes, ears and mouth just showed the pain and distress of these horses.  The more you looked at them the more it was just so upsetting to look at.  Unbelievable that someone has no thought about the horses welfare. :(

To me, it is all about dominance and submission - and not about getting the horses supple and relaxed prior to competing - which is what they claim. In some pics the horses are so overbent their chins are touching their chests - very unatural. I am not sure how they can breathe and what skeletal and muscular damage is being caused by this - let alone the fact that the horses look so desperately strained and in pain in their eyes I can barely stand to look.

It disgusts me. Its extreme punishment and torture and should be stopped. Imagine being forced to run with your chin strapped in to your chest. Vile.

they are just warming up though arent they? they wouldnt be like that in the ring would they?

would it be acceptable to you for a trainer to beat a dog with a stick to make it do things when warming up, as long as they didn't do it in the ring?

i dont see any big sticks beating the sh8t out the the horses. i see horses been "made" to maintain an unnatural outline for the sake of a sport.
but tbh i dont think they look in distress. imo, they look like they are just working

Edited (mod)

In my opinion - yes. Imagine being forced into an unatural position, not being able to breathe, submitting, and being forced to work at the same time. Pushing the horses head into that position is throwing the whole body out of shape - hollowing the back, arching the neck... yes, to me, its physical punishment.

ok thats fine,thats your opinion. :)

Not just my opinion - thankfully it will soon be banned.

:)

The sooner the better :( :( :(  

Michelled surely you can see from the photos that with the best will in the world these horses necks are being forcefully moulded into a completely unnatural shape?

Their eyes are bulging and whites exposed and they cannot see where they are going - is that in itself not evidence of distress?

yes i can,of course, id NEVER have a horse of mine llike that, & i dont like it.
but i still think they just look like they are been worked really hard.
thats just what i see. im not going to lie:rolleyes:

Stressed blood shot eyes are the sign of trouble :rolleyes: , even if that is the only thing you can spot .

ban all horse racing then,they dont look any more distressed thanb a average race horse

Funny you should mention racing... did anyone else see that "allegedly" lame horse run in the Derby - that was pulled up by Keiron Fallon and pts with a fracture? Another abuse of the horse.

if anybody that is in a sport for money,then the animals are open to abuse & thats dogs aswell as horses
if anyone could have seen my fit TB x quarter horse after she had gone around a XC course would see similar red eyes,foaming  mouth by the time she had finished.
she wasnt distressed,she loved it

Indeed. Would you expect to see a horse in a warm up for a dressage test in the same condition as one that just finished a XC course?

I wouldn't. I think the horses are being worked hard, but the eyes are strained at the mouths are gasping because they can't breathe - due to the unatural overbend in the neck.

true,;),
is hard work the same as distress though?

Michelled , come on, does 2 wrongs make a right ?

To me that is like saying I won't give up smoking because I may get killed by a bus"    or it doesn't matter than the woman next door is being beaten up because the woman on the other side is also. :rolleyes: :-)

The fact is they photos show horses clearly in distress for no reason neccessary.

where exactly did i say it was right?????
ive said tons of times i dont like it

i just dont think they look in distress. MY personall opinion.
i think it looks horrible,but i just dont think they look in distress.

& if a million other people disagree,i still wont think they look in distress.
im not a liar,i just dont see it

Ok you have gave your opinion so let others give theirs. :-) 

errr yes i have let others give their opinion
im not saying peoples are wrong, im just saying what they look like to me.
.So now i cant actually answer  questions put to me if a disagree with the majority.
oh right i will remeber that in future.

clearly i know ** about horses

Michelle I don't mean this in a cheeky way even if it sounds it but can I ask what age group you are? I am honestly not being cheeky

Nobody said you can't have an opinion but you have to learn to respect others without getting so wound up and verbal. swearing is not allowed on this site and it isn't really neccessary at all.

If someone disagrees with your opinion you have to learn to take it on the chin..

im 31.
from the age of 9 -21 i helped & worked with horses, i was a yard manager & instructor.
i then had my own horse, who i rescued & broke in & brought on myself. we got to riding club (national) level SJ

so no i clearly know sod all.

re the swearing,ban me,iif its so terrible & offensive.
im fed up with been treated like a idiot

Hi Michelled,

please don't turn this thread into an argument :(  Go chill out for a bit or ignore it entirely - carrying it on in this vein will only have it locked.

regards, Teri 

Bringing another thing into this, hopefully it is OK as we are on horses :-)  Did any of you see the reflective Jackets for horse and rider on the news last night?  They are free to some and avaliable cheaply to others so that low flying aircrafts can spot the horse and rider in quicker time to fly higher to avoid spooking the horse. Remember the lady that was thrown from her horse and died from the head injury?

They're being given by the MOD aren't they? :)

Yup - available in places where the MOD exercise.

Although, saying that - I think its rather foolish to ride without high viz on these days wherever you are!

DId you see them Carla?

I am not very knowledgeable on horse equipment but I certainly thought they did the job when you saw them from  the Helicopter.

I have seen riders with just jackets on which is probably OK for things coming towards and from behind. It certainly seems very important from the overhead view to have the horse illuminated also.

A lot of people now use the high viz exercise sheets too - particularly in winter - they are very good on darker horses.

We are reasonably lucky as we are under a flight path for the big Chinook double engined jobs and the police helicopters. They fly over really low and because the horses are so used to them we don't have a problem. Out on a hack mine are more likely to spook at an empty packet of crisps blowing across the road LOL

Out on a hack mine are more likely to spook at an empty packet of crisps blowing across the road LOL

:-D :-D   LOL people often forget just how gentle a horse is..