Hello all,

As you may or may not know, I have a young 'wocker' bitch called Tizzy. She's 13 months now and finished her 1st season about 3 weeks ago. I have decided not to spay her (as yet), as I may try for a litter from her in about a year, when she's had a go at some trialling, if she shows promise. Her breeder is almost impossible to contact (believe me I've tried!), and doesn't breed spaniels any more.

I've been researching her breeding and am in contact with a few e-mail people that I have met along the way, mostly with cockers doing Gundog work rather than working triallers (hardly any wockers in WT). I would really like to see what another breeder thinks of my girl, I think she's lovely, but thats not a good enough reason to breed from her.

I am in Hertfordshire, but am willing to travel to the surrounding counties, so if anyone knows of any breeder, or ex-breeder that may be willing to meet Tizzy and me and give an un-biased opinion, please let me know.

Many thanks

Ali :)

I would imagine you will meet the people whos opinions will be worth having at the trials. 

If she is doing Working Trials rather than Field Trials Isabel she will not meet people who have opinions on Cockers (at least not the opinions Ali is seeking) :D :D

Have you considered getting in touch with Adrian Hornsby at Lakatamia Dog Academy in Suffolk?

He sees a lot as he trains them up for search work etc. Look on the web.  He is also very au fait with Working Trials.

He will certainly be able to put you in touch with high quality working cocker breeders.

Briarquest may also be a thought; they are also on the web.

Ali,

To a great extent it very much depends on what you are trying to breed. I'd guess that there are certain traits that could be of no consequence in working trials but would completely put a bitch out of the running when it comes to breeding for the shooting field. For example, the propensity for hard mouth and making a noise on game will be of little importance in working trials but would be curtains for a field trial cocker.

'Soundness' is probably the biggest requirement in a potential spaniel breeding bitch. i.e good temperament, no hard mouth, no inclination to whine and bark in a shooting environment, a natural retriever and willingness to enter cover and water. Add to this a nice trainable disposition and you have the potential for some nice shooting companions (if put to a suitable sire). Once breeding for field trials is the aspiration you really want to be adding exceptional game-finding ability, a willingness to really thrash the most horrible cover, a fairly natural hunting pattern and vitally it needs to hunt as though it's back-side was on fire! A bitch of this type may be a bit much for the average trainer, which is why there is still a market for the 'sound shooting bitch' progeny. I'd guess that a cocker most suitable for working trials would perhaps lack some of the fire required for field trials, and would perhaps fit more closely with the attributes of a nice, steady, handy little shooting companion.

However, the only way that you can really tell if a working gundog bitch is suitable for breeding is to get it out in the shooting field for a couple of seasons. I don't know if there would be much of a market for working trial cockers?

Most working cocker breeders will be happy to have a look at your bitch, and I'd guess that they'd have a stud that they'd feel was suitable. ;-)

Hope that helps....

As you know Ali, I've got working cockers.  Although my bitch was from really good breed lines, she was chosen because of her parents.  My son had seen both of them work and knew that when we had a cocker, that was what he wanted.  Parents came from different parts of the country and had been carefuly selected and we spent some time getting to know the breeder and watching his dogs work.

As our bitch grew, it was clear that she had most of the attributes that Havoc describes above and she was well respected and admired whichever shoot she went on.  We started getting requests for pups even before we had thought of breeding from her.  As a champdog addict, I had her eyes tested and once we knew that was OK, thought about breeding.  The problem I had was finding a suitable sire and working out what we would be looking for in a stud dog.

I was pleased with our choice until we ended up with a pup with Entropian.  With no history on either side, I've always been left wondering how, if or why but I guess this is just one of those difficult bits of breeding.

I suppose what I am trying to say is that although we were really happy with our bitch's qualities, it was others that reaffirmed that.  I knew that one of the keepers we worked had an opinion that was well respected as was the complementary opinion of one of the gundog writers in the shooting gazette.  We didn't go looking for positive opinions, they came to us.  Get her out there, get her working and get her seen.  How many times a week will you go beating during the shooting season? 

She's only young and won't even have done a shooting season yet, so see how she goes.  I look forward to hearing of progress.

Hi all, many thanks for the replies!

Tizzy's parents were both working dogs rather than Field Triallers, and Allyson is correct about not asking for opinions from WT people :) (As far as I know, there are no working cockers in WT at the moment, although there are a couple of non-working ones, it's normally the Springers that get a look in as they're a bit bigger so they can do full-sized jumps). I think that they are looked on as a bit of a waste of space by some people (not all :) ), too much dog in a too small a package!

I have had her eyes checked and she's been DNA'ed as well (If her eyes were not good i wouldn't be even considering breeding from her).

I suppose what i'm trying to say is that there just aren't enough of them that i know of, where i live, to compare her. Physically she's quite small, but i was told by one of the gundog demo people at Crufts that that may not be a problem as a lot are being bred 'too large' (her words, not mine!)

She's fearless and a real bramble basher, braver than my Labs!

Ali :)

Hi Ali - I remembered you had a youngster. Dont completely rule out WT peeps - I had one of my youngsters assesed by German Shepherd trainer up here - I got positive noises :)

Do you get Dog World.  Ann Roslin Williams' brother breeds Cockers of the Working type I beleive, as I remember an article about the Mansergh line of working cockers a few years ago.