I was all set to order a Guardsman crate for our Astra, but have now been wondering whether a front guard/divider/tailguard would be just as good!

My OH mentioned that he felt a dog might get crushed in the cage in the event of an accident and the fact that he never worries about this sort of thing ever, gave me a heads up; however, a dog behind a tailguard only is perhaps more likey to get loose if the worst happened, in that if windows were broken it might escape onto the road methinks. It's a difficult and confusing call this one.

Does anyone have any thoughts or advice on this? I have to order this week in order to get the equipment on time for my block college week with the dog ... 

Lindsay
x

Hi
I have a Guardsman crate in my Astra Estate after having just a tailguard. I would go for the crate every time. A tailguard is better than nothing but theres more room for the dog to be thrown forward. A cage gives them double protection especially when I have the two in the car, I have the divider going down the middle.
My only vital advice would be that make sure you get a cage with emergency hatches at the back. I had a friend with a cage with none. She was reared ended, couldn't get the boot open so therefore the dogs were trapped. Not good. I broke down on the motorway once and got one of my dogs out via the emergency door. It's better to get them out in the car and get the lead on rather than risking them bolting past you onto the road. It might cost you an extra £100 but well worth it.

Crate for me everytime too! Same reasons as you megan57collies.

Our crate has an emergency release mechanism so if the back was smashed into and you couldnt open the estate door then you can pull down the back seat and quick release the back of the cage to get your dogs out

If there was one dog-related item I could choose as our best-ever- buy it would have to be our car cage!

I firmly resisted using one for years - I liked the idea that my dogs were IN the car with me.....until watching the tv advert where the child killed his mother by the impact of an accident throwing him forward.

This really set me thinking.

Add into that our mad malamute, who thinks everytime we slow down it's a cue for screaming the place down with excitement......   This was actually really painful on the ears.  He is now safely and comfortably (for all of us!) restrained in the rear of the estate car.

A cage - everytime!

It depends how many dogs and family you want to transport at once. If we had a cage we'd have to leave at least one dog behind!

Definitely a crate - my dogs go in a crate if in our big car, or clipped with their car harnesses onto the seatbelts if in the small car. No danger of them escaping down the M1 in case of accident!

A cage will limit the room in the back if you have more then two medium dogs.  However, it does seem to keep the car cleaner and the dog nose marks off your windows. :D

But as others have said, make sure you have a back exit should you need it.

Thanks so much everybody who has taken the time to reply; I think we are now definitely going down the cage route with safety hatch

Can i just ask - should I buy the rubber matting as well? what do peeps use as crate flooring?

Lindsay
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Mine came with the matting from Barjo.

My guardsman has a wooden floor inside it. I put down some rubber matting. I was kindly given some from the ringcraft mats but anything would do (as long as your dog isn't a serious chewer. I then just put vet bed or dog matresses down. The rubber matting is good in case of any accidents ;). Also I find it gives the dogs some stability ie, not slipping everytime I turn the corner. I did also invest in a solar blanket because when the sun is shining and your travelling, it's amazing how hot the cage bars can get. The cage fans are good as well especially if your air con is not piped to the back of the car.

Air con? Mine's only new enough to have electric windows!

LOL
In that case Jeangenie. Hold an icecube over your blower whilst driving along. It'll work the same ;)

I'm the same Jeangenie, S reg Vauxhall Astra here - think we will need that fan :P

I can't believe it - I'm veering towards the tailgate now - aaaaaargh!!

Why can't  i make a decision (and i'm not even a Libran )

Lindsay
x

I have a tailgate and guard but would rather a crate - if they are fitted well then I think they are great.  I think if you have 1 or two dogs then a crate is great - however, like another poster said I wouldn't fit all mine in a crate!

Hope this can help your indecisiveness!!

Nah if you don't have chewers you can have iced/frozen water in 2 litre pop bottles instead in
the cage with your dogs. They slowly melt and keep the dogs cool.
Then you also have cool water for the dogs to drink once they've melted :)
That's what I used to do with my older non-air-con Astra estate that I had.
I still do it now even thou I have air con in my newer Astra estate - old habits die hard I guess!

I have the space blankets too - mine are the Countrymun ones - they are most excellent.
I have bungees to use whilst at shows etc to cover the car with the blankets when stationery
whilst the rear boot is open etc.

Kirstine

Go for rubber matting Lindsay.  I use it with mine and then put beds on top (no chance then of beds slipping).

Sarah.

I would say go for the cage every time!!

I have an Astra estate (my third, I love them this is my second diesel one).
I can fit 3 Boxers in my guardsman cage, although its the max I can reallly carry in the one cage.
I do have the removable divider and it has 2 rear escape doors.
I did have a bigger cage which would fit more dogs in but I couldn't use my rear seats as these
were folded down to accomodate the larger cage.

What I will say is that although I love my guardsman very much especially as I have one dog that is
car protective so tailgate and rear seat guards are no good for me(I've tried them in another car I owned).
It's VERY heavy and as it goes over the spare wheel...you need the assistance of another person
to get said cage out before you can get your spare wheel out.
So it might be worth looking at other cages which are lighter for a single person to lift out, in the
case of having a flat tyre etc.
I've heard that Barnesbrook are very good and strong but not as heavy as a Guardsman.

Also I always have spare leads clipped to the cage where the rear escape doors are that way if I am
hit up the rear I've always got leads to get the dogs out. As my normal dog leads are clipped to the
normal entrance of the cage :)

Best Of luck
Kirstine

Now I've changed my car, I really ought to get something sorted for the dogs in it :) I don't know what is best - when Tara was smaller she was in a cage in the car (just her ordinary house crate) - however, she got car sick and when we stopped using the crate, she was fine :D I don't think that having them in the car without a crate etc is a good idea, but had to wait until I changed the car (I've got a Renault Scenic - new style). I 'think' that I want a tailgate and back guard - but are they permanent fixtures/how difficult are they to remove (I wouldn't be doing this very frequently). Would I have to have the seats down permanently as there isn't a huge amount of room in the boot ? I normally only have 1 dog in my car - usually take hubby's if we go out for the day with both dogs.

Hope that you can understand my ramblings :D

Daisy

I have a Barjo tailgate and it screws in and out easily - my guard is car manufacturers and comes out just as easy but if I had one dog then I have to say I would have got a Barjo cage/car cage - I used to have one in my Renault Espace.

With one dog I don't think you would necessarily need the seats down permananently?  But if you weren't putting the seats down then I guess a guard and tailgate would give more room?  Sorry changed my tune there haven't I!!

Hope this helps a wee bit! :)

Ive got the barjo tailgate and rear guard, I have an Audi A4 and the rear wheel arches are in the boot so with a cage I would lose valuable space.  I have air con but still use a plug in fan to push it towards the rear

Thanks again everybody for your kind advice and thoughts on crate versus tailgate :)

We really have made a decision now, which is to go for the crate - main reason being that, having only the one dog (for the moment :P ) we don't have to worry too much about losing a small bit of space. Also I think if the absolute worse happened and we were involved in an accident, Banya could not possibly get out of any smashed windows in panic and end up running about on the road. I think I prefer the "look" of the tailgate but the crates look pretty good too.

I've been given the Barnesbrook info too - they are not too far from us - I do really want Guardsman but, if we went for Barnesbrook could actually go there and get the whole thing fitted etc  ... i sense more indecision now, Guardsman or Barnesbrook... :D  :P

Again thank so much everyone,

Lindsay
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If you go for a bespoke made to measure cage you don't get the wasted space, so there is more room in the cage.

Unless there are gaps in the cage for the wheel arches (which I imagine would weaken the structure) there'd be a lot of wasted space at the sides. :(

I'm going to use that for storage hopefully...

Lindsay
x

My freinds had 9ne made by Hampster baskets and it not only folded/took apart for storage, but was truly fitted taking into account wheel arches, the slope of the back seat everything, so the only loss of space was just enough spcae around to stop it from rubbing, and it was quiet too.

I don't know which Guardsman model I got but it is light enough for me to get out of the car myself. My only problem is they're too big to get through my front door so it's stuck in the car all the time. It hasn't been a real problem as my shopping goes in it anyway.

If Barnesbrook aren't too far away from you...

I'd probably ask to go and see the cages in the flesh that way
you can get a feel for the cage and how light etc they are etc.

I read a guard combined with a safety tested car safty harness was the safest option for the dog...but that might be  biased information because it is by a safety harness company!

The problem with car safety it is all tested for people safety... it would be nice you see properly investigated research on dog safety. Obviously in a serious crash who knows...but the collisions under say 40 mph... there should be tests to prove which is the safest option for transporting dogs... ideally a way to ensure that a 30mph crash should be able to be made relatively safe.

I have asked Hi-craft for their safety car harness test result information...they said they will pass information on to me. Maybe the car cage and dog guard  companies could be asked for safert test result information.

For a start the poles on some of the dog guard look dangerous to me.... my car is a hatchback so I can only fit a guard and the fixing poles look deadly.

Of course, the space behind the rear seats is the 'crumple zone' that's specially designed to absorb impact by crushing. The middle of the car's the safest - but that's where the children go!

I think generally the crate will be used for more local journeys and when on motorways we will have Banya in the middle in hammock, with harness as that is what we do now..the crate is more for security when I am at college and also it will mean that at least the car will not be a totally hairy zone all the time. I can't remember the last time I got into a car and came out relatively non-hairy :P

Lindsay
x

Don't bet on it! All my dogs now travel in the boot behind the dog guard (having a tailgate guard fitted today!) and yet for some strange reason there still is masses of hair in the front! How does it do that!!! :rolleyes:

:P

Lindsay
x

IMV the only safe way to travel is with the dogs in car crates. 

The main difference between a dog guard and a tailgate is that if you have a puppy or a destructive dog this leaves the car interior at risk, not to mention snotty noses on the windows! :D Custom made guards and tailgates are better than the cheapo versions from various stores as these are not bolted in and will not stop a 30 kg dog (in a crash will have the impact of a baby elephant) going through and either killing the driver/passenger or going through the windscreen.

Also in the event of a shunt or worse if the tailgate opens or the windows are smashed the dogs may still do a runner through the open door/windows and either be run over, run off or cause other accidents.

There is no fail safe method as there is not an ISO/EN/BSi standard for car crates or safety belts.

I have known cages to be damaged in accidents but the dogs have been ok.  Get escape doors which ever method you choose so that in the event of a rear shunt you can still get the dogs out by the front.

Barnesbrook are excellent quality, silent and he will make anything bespoke to your wishes.  I have used them for two of my cars; he also happens to be a lot cheaper than many of the "major" makes and the advantage of Dave's designs means that you can unfold them in the car which means you get the maximum width and height available whereas other cages are made to fit through the car opening which may be smaller than the interior of your vehicle.

He will also put dividers in strange places and add hooks for leads etc.

Everyone I know who has one is thrilled to bits with them and he has a very short lead time and will post them to you.  He has most makes on his computer so you do not even have to travel.

I would not go anywhere else now.

ps I drive a Ford Focus Zetec Estate and the whole of the back is caged out for the dogs, I can on my own lift the whole cage out, unfolded to clean and then put back in, a plus for me.

I've just found a link to send a message to Barnesbrook to get a quote for a cage for my car, but as a matter of interest, whereabouts in the country is he based?  I have recently bought a tailgate guard and rear seat guard and divider to fit my car but one of mine can get a bit excited in the car and she has scratched the plastic under the windows.   Also, the barjo tailgate guard needs to have holes drilled in the car and I haven't done this yet.
Thanks

133 Farnhurst Road, Barnham, Bognor Regis, West Sussex PO22 OLL

Thanks!

I was torn between the 2 makes but decided to go for Guardsman in the end, with escape door etc :)

I think Barnesbrook are very good and they were a very very close runner up for me!

One thing puzzles me a bit though. I had originally thought all crates were bolted in and fixed, but neither of these makes are.
If the worst happened and we went head on  into a brick wall, what would stop the crate from sliding forwards and hitting driver/passenger?

Reason I ask is partly the baby elephant thing Tohme mentioned, but also because i know someone who was put in hospital for a month after she had a collision in which
her heavy briefcase (on the seat behind her) rammed into the back of her driver's seat.

Lindsay
x

The cages/crates sit behind your rear seats.
Which are normally anchored in very well, also it depends on humans
too, as if you don't make sure that your rear seats are clipped in properly
(the back of the seats) then the cage will be able to shift slightly.
But it won't be able to ram into the back of your driver/passenger seat as
if you have an estate the cage won't be able to go over the rear seat and
if they do come down and you have head rests on the rear seat the seats
sit up so that the cage won't slide into the seats. It's also the same with
the older Astra, so the cage won't be able to slide into the seats as the back
seats don't fold flat instantly you have to pull the bottom of the rear seat up first
to enable the floor to be flat.

Also with regard to your friend thats why the RAC reccommend luggage nets and all
objects that you carry should be placed into the boot behind them ;)

Hope this helps a little.

Hi, yes i should have said the crate is the normal one behind the rear seats, sorry.
I see what you mean, hopefully then the crate would be prevented from going forward even in the event of a
head on collision; I see what you mean about the crate not going over the rear seats etc.

Thanks - it's much clearer now. I can't wait to get it, I'm quite excited

Lindsay
x

Hi
Nothing is straightforwards or easy, is it?  Just to say that I know of someone who was rear-end shunted at speed; they spent 6 months in hospital and it was only because the side window fell out and the FCR jumped out that the dog lived.  Have no idea on the statistics as to whether this was a one-off, but something to bear in mind.

IMHO the only downside of the cages that Tohme recommends are that they don't contain the dirt like a solid cage.  I do however, like the idea that you can unfold them in the car and can see advantages of that.

My Lintran box is light and can be lifted out easily and hosed out.  Crates win hands down over tailgates any day.  I am always amazed at the number of people who travel with dogs unrestrained.  As Tohme rightly points out, in an impact a medium sized dog will create a force of a baby elephant!