I've just been reading elswhere, that the dogs formerly known as UTONAGON, have had another name change. More infighting has resulted in them splitting againbeing renamed again Tamaskan Dogs. Remember they used to be called Northern Inuit Dogs. How can these people expect their 'breed' to be universally accepted if they can't agree among themselves.

Dawn R.

Where's Tamaska supposed to be?

not where..but who!
Tamaskan is 'Strong wolf' :D

thats another of my pet hates, a lot of the breeders use the word wolf in their adverts, but they dont have wolf in them so the new name is a misnomer if ever i heard one

The way I see it, we've domesticated the wolf once and it's been a huge success why can't we just leave it at that :)

thats another of my pet hates, a lot of the breeders use the word wolf in their adverts, but they dont have wolf in them so the new name is a misnomer if ever i heard one

do bulldogs have bull in them then ;)  :D  :D

Wolfhounds hunted wolves, which is why they have the word in their name - it's a similar situation with bulldogs! ;)

I know, I know, couldn't resist it though :)

:::hangs head in shame

well they dont say they are wolves do they? only that they look abit like them? dosent offend me at all!
isnt there a breed that translets into the lion dog?

Oh! :)

;) :D

it does seem silly for them to always be fighting, on another forum i go on, every time utonagon or northern inuit gets mentioned the thread goes off into a slanging match and usually gets locked :rolleyes: i dont think changing the name all the time is a good idea and personally i think they are overpriced, £600 + for what is basically a gsd, mal and siberian mix? :rolleyes: no thanks

You'r absolutely right Nursey....
I had thought the Ute guys were getting their house in order..the NI guys, well they were rapidly losing the plot (standards submitted to KC with NO faults!!??)
I am begining to despair for them all :rolleyes:

for those not aware of the two factions that once were NI and then split..to yet more factions!!
here's a taster of what the in-fighting is like:- *deep sigh*
http://www.dogstuff.info/northern_inuit_ripoff.html

they are all mongrels in essence.  not that i have a problem with mongrels...........some of the best sled dogs are..

but paying ridiculous prices for something that was bred to 'look as much like the wolf as possible' :rolleyes: come on.

paying ridiculous prices for dogs that may or may not have health defects because the parents aren't health tested:rolleyes:

i dont mind crossbreeding if done for a reason. but messing about with large, sometimes difficult breeds such as mals and gsds and sibes because they look nice is just plain stupid, greedy and irresponsible.  these 'designer mongrels' are touted as excellent family pets.  hhmmm....................

fools and money are easily parted..........:rolleyes:

Dawn,
Do you know which 'faction' it is that is name changing (I really cant keep up with them all now :rolleyes:)
is it the Utonagan Society? (Jan fennell [Quelle surprise] as Chairman)

Found it! Here
cant figure out if its mud slinging,handbags at dawn...or people in glass houses!?
But they are a registery not a society....
okaaaaay, still all as clear as..well that mud thats being thrown around!

where did the posts in the middle go????

I removed them. Keep this thread on topic please

What does a name change do???  All the problems that they are complaining of seem to happen in any breed once a Breed Club is set up.  You'll always get jealousy and people trying to stir things up, it's unfortunately a very sad fact of life, no matter what interests you are in, it's not necessarily a dog thing!

I guess it depends whether or not they want to be taken seriously. Until they start behaving professionally instead of all pulling in different directions they won't be seen as anything more than amateurs messing around with no real purpose. That also applies to other interests, not just dogs! :)

So are there now Northern Inuits, Utonagans and Tamaskans or have they just named them as a breed Tamaskans, which if the case, seems pretty pointless?
Becky

Sorry not to have been able to get back to this one, my computer has been very dead for almost 24 hours.:rolleyes:

As far as I can tell, somebody formerly in Ute's has gone to live in Finland and decided to call their dog a Tamaskan Dog.

I must admit I haven't spent much time researching these dogs but they have no idea how much concern they have caused among the owners of their dogs offspring. These people don't know what they have anymore.:rolleyes: It's a pity they don't know that there is about 100 years or so of uncertainty still to come, before a breed emerges.

Dawn R.

Well, aparently Tamaskan Dogs have a breed mean hip score of 9.2 (nine point two)

I don't know who is scoring these Tamaskan Dogs but I don't think it's the BVA. There is no mention of Tamaskan Dogs on the new table of breed mean scores. It could be that they are among the figures for breeds with less than 10 individuals scored, but it could be that they are among the 14 Utonagons scored, but then again their BMS is 27.

Dawn R.

Thanks Dawn!....Hmmmm I think alot of novice owners have been taken in by all this, and (they) fear for their 'pedigrees' which to the enlightened are sadly quite woeful. :( really hope someone pulls their finger out...its turning farcical. :rolleyes:

Hi all,
Yes, there was an NI breakaway some time ago and Utonagan came from that. If you look at Utonagan and NI now, you can clearly see differences have emerged.
No, the Utonagan Society is still going strong, it was the British and International Utonagan society that closed down after some leaving for Finland. Some of the Tamaskan dogs are former Utonagan but if you looked at their site, you could clearly see the 'new stock' look not a lot like Utonagan were at all and questions are still being asked as to what exactly is in them. (None have been answered as of yet)
Yes, this year Utonagan had an average hip score with the BVA of 27, but this was due to one dogs appalling hips, the rest had much better hips (with several 3,3's in there) the dog in question has been removed from the breeding programme and for some time now, there have been strict rules as to hip scoring, eye testing and other medical tests that have to be undergone before any breeding can take place. Pedigree's come under close scrutiny and all matings are carefully selected.
We know there have been problems in the past, but now the Society is moving forward and work in close quarters again with the NI people.
I hope that helps
Utonagan

Do any breeders register their dogs under the activities register with the KC? SUrely that would be one way of keeping a reasonably accurate record?
Becky

The KC would of course register them as Xbreeds as the Activities register is meant for Xbreeds & recognized pedigree breeds that are not KC registered, non ISDS/KC registered BC's that the KC in their wisdom deem to call WSD. You cannot register "breeds"like labradoodle, Utonagan etc as anything other than Xbreeds

a tamaskan is a dog cross between a german shepherd, husky and a malamute.
it is a very close breed to the untonigan (sorry cant spell) but a untonigan has only gsd and husky
:) hope this helped

I don't think any of them look like a wolf, well maybe one or two witch are kept by the breeders. When I see them in Add's they look like GSD cross breeds, most of them I have seen have a lot of white and only patches of colour, and some are sold for a lot of money.  The pups seem to change colour as they grow, so what looks very wolfy as a pup terns out to look nothing more than a cross bred dog. I would never have one. there are enough pedigrees to choose from. And a nice lot of Spitz if its a wolf look you want, or if you look through dogs rescue pages you can often find a wolfy looking cross breed that needs a home.

Have to agree with you Vinya, of course some may be different, but I came upon a field full of them and every single one looked like a GSD cross, most had GSD ears not a bit like a wolves, most had poor construction particularly the angulations and top line, most had light bone and a few single coats. An amazing number had blue or one blue eye and the owners seemed pleased by this, how many wolves have blue eyes I wonder, in nature blue eyes in any of the dog type species is unusual and therefore likely to be undesirable although I am aware that one or two of the domesticated breeds do have blue or light eye. They were mostly called NI by their owners but how they could see any difference between them and the other dogs who were called Ute or Tamaskn I don't know, all looked different and far more like a GSD than any wolf I have seen.

German Shepherd Dogs were also know by the name Alsatian Wolf Dogs once, to combat the 'anti german' feeling during the war.

>a tamaskan is a dog cross between a german shepherd, husky and a malamute.
>it is a very close breed to the untonigan (sorry cant spell) but a untonigan has only gsd and husky

Not so.  All of these dogs...Tamaskans, Utonagans, British Inuits, Chimayo Inuits et al. all originate from the exact same dogs now known an Northern Inuit dogs.  Each group may have added other breeds in along the way but they all came from the same beginnings.  Depending on what (or who) you believe, that is Malamute X Husky X GSD or a couple of wolfy looking stray mongrels imported from the USA.

There's a NI(or Tamaskan or whatever) lives up the road from me and its a nightmare-it doesn't seem to have either the husky's friendly temperament to other dogs or the GSD's trainability-its very dog aggressive and runs off.If these people are going to try and create a new breed they really should be combining the best of all 3 breeds.

"a tamaskan is a dog cross between a german shepherd, husky and a malamute.
it is a very close breed to the untonigan (sorry cant spell) but a untonigan has only gsd and husky
:-) hope this helped "

Actually many Tamaskans used to be Utonagans - the "founder" of Tamaskans renamed all her Utes when she decided to change their breed. They were exactly the same although now there is God knows what else in the mix - these are mixed breed dogs not pedigrees.

not only are there 5 names for this breed:
northern innuit, utonagan, tamaskan, british innuit and chimayo innuit

each 'name' has different breakaway societies.

for example, the NI has 2 factions: NIS (northern innuit society) and TIDA (the innuit dog association)

Utonagan has 3!
The Utonagan society, The Utonagan Association (TUA) and British Utonagan Association (BUA).

its all very funny

i always though NI meant non-identifiable

sooo..........three years down the line - are we any the wiser - what is it that makes a NI/Ute/Tamaskan dog????????

>sooo..........three years down the line - are we any the wiser - what is it that makes a NI/Ute/Tamaskan dog????????

As the majority of people who are actually breeding these dogs can't answer that, then there's little chance of anyone else being able to ;-)